WAH and LBW separated and dark

[DumpedforMIL]

So you chose to act like the child she was treating you as?

well, i knew that if i said anything, both my h and his father would jump to her defense.

also, if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all.

You were acting like a child.. remember.

no, she wouldn't ask me because she knew i would say no but this was her way of getting her son to buy in to her innocent gesture. because she's always "just trying to help."

How did you say it? There is the possibility that she is a big baby.. or a manipulator.

i just said "all of my blue ornaments are moved to the back?" they all know blue is my favorite colour.

So.. after things got "out of hand".. you just walked away?

things never really escalated. voices weren't ever raised.
no fight ensued.
a friend of mine was in town and invited me to go for coffee. so i told them i had to go out but i'd be back for dinner. i left for about 5 hrs - between noon and 5 pm.

How could this have been handled differently?

i probably could have set boundaries.
i had said to h before they arrived that i wanted us to create our own christmas traditions. it was the first christmas at our home. i wanted it to be the start of our own traditions.
but when his mother came, she brought all of their traditions and all of h's childhood memories and everything that she felt we needed.

i wanted to set boundaries of one item is fine but don't overtake my decorated home with what you think would make our home festive.

and my h has trouble maintaining boundaries. he allowed her to replace everything that i picked out with everything she brought.

Anyway.. sorry I have not been around much. I am keeping up. I have been crazy busy at work and it just finally settled down today. I got your other messages and I will do what I can.

good timing though. i really need some discussion on a few issues. i feel the rollercoaster taking a dive.

When do you actually get the house?

won't get it until next year.
i was so excited when i got the house i wanted.
i have to start shopping for appliances now. i am looking into Bosch appliances.

i'm one of the lucky ones where i don't have financial difficulties. my h used to say me that i had a secret "leave him" fund. but really, my savings were more like an emergency fund.

the house is almost 2200 sq ft. it sounds like a lot for one person but it's actually not that big. the layout is great. lots of windows. i'm going to create a kick ass kitchen. i miss having a real kitchen.

the house will have appreciated between now and the day i get the keys. the homes in the area are in demand. which is why i bought in that area.

i put a lot of thought into it. it wasn't just a spur of the moment decision. i know what group i am targeting to sell my home in the future. equity is never a bad thing to have.

btw, thanks for introducing me to randy pausch. i have watched his last lecture many times and all i can think of is .. "if you live your life the right way, the karma will take care of itself. the dreams will come to you."

i am proud of who i am. how i was raised. what i stand for. how i handled myself so far. i may have gone ballistic a few times here, but not in public.
i feel like i have lived my life the right way so far.
if i were to go today, i would go in peace.
so many things become irrelevant in the face of death.
how i choose to live my life is what defines me.
my m does not define me.
what my h says about me, does not define me.
what my father has said about me, does not define me.

It is not the things we do in life that we regret on our death bed. It is the things we do not. Find your passion and follow it. And if there is anything that I have learned in life, you will not find that passion in things. And you will not find that passion in money. Because the more things and the more money you have, the more you will just look around and use that as the metric — and there will always be someone with more. Your passion must come from the things that fuel you from the inside. That passion will be grounded in people. It will be grounded in the relationships you have with people and what they think of you when your time comes.

this is why i didn't fight over stuff during our split.
i learned that things or money isn't going to fuel me from inside and be happy.
growing up poor, we had very little but we had a happy childhood. we didn't need things to make us happy. my siblings and i had each other.
it is so true that passion is grounded in people and the relationships with these people.

why am i talking about this? because i am keeping up my end of the bargain. talk less about h and his side of things. the focus is on me.

i feel like i've grown a lot during my time here. the journey isn't over and there is so much to learn.

dumped.

[LauraOh]

Hey Dumped, a pushy MIL is always fun. ugh.

Actually, it is MY mother who will come up and "take over". She will rearrainge furniture, hang pictures on different walls, pull up flowers and bring clippings from her own garden. She is full of "advise" and if you contradict her she lets the tears flow.

I hate to admit this, but she is getting up there in age and rarely visits and that is FINE.

In life there is always the "difficult person". A boss, a child--someone. They will challenge you like no other--they really make you become aware of yourself in ways you didn't know exist.

Handling them with grace and dignity is a challenge. You can't expect them to change. Who has to be the grown up? You do. I know it's hard. My mother is a royal pain. I hate that I have to be the adult with her.

But she won't be my last difficult person....

[Greek]

well, i knew that if i said anything, both my h and his father would jump to her defense.

Mind reading.

also, if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all.

Cop out.

no, she wouldn't ask me because she knew i would say no but this was her way of getting her son to buy in to her innocent gesture. because she's always "just trying to help."

Mind reading.

i just said "all of my blue ornaments are moved to the back?" they all know blue is my favorite colour.

Mind reading.

she brought all of their traditions and all of h's childhood memories and everything that she felt we needed.

Mind reading.

What if she was bringing those childhood Christmas items to your home to share that part of his life with you? Your mind reading went to the destructive end of the spectrum when you assigned her motive. She may have indeed been reaching out. However - neither of us knows that - only she does.

My M&FIL, as I posted to you previously, have been rough on me and our M. No question. I spent many years angry at them for things similar to what you report your in-laws have done to you...and worse and more hurtful, even. A point I would like to make to you is that I am no longer ANGRY with them. I let it go - but not in a "Poof - no more anger" moment. That's magic and it doesn't work that way. I used compassion. I recalled the things my MIL had said and done to me over 20+ years and decided that unwarranted cruelty like that must come from a hurting person. I put myself in her shoes and really tried to see it her from her side, with her hurts and scars and possible fears - gave her the benefit of the doubt in a lot of areas (b/c I'm kind) - and over time, I have come to see that her bad treatment of me is not about ME. It's about something else - who knows - but it's not my problem. No more anger. Compassion.

I have been able to use this experiential knowledge (replacing anger with compassion) in all areas of my life - my work, my children, my H, my friends, my sibs, people who cut me off in traffic, people on this forum... It's liberating.

Greek

[DumpedforMIL]

lauraoh, i wish i had met you before all of this.
you're absolutely right.
there will be difficult people in your life and i should have handled things better.

i think i was extremely hard on my ILs.
and in some ways, i imposed MY way of things on them - which is to be independent, self-sufficient, and have a desire to constantly learn.

since i am keeping up my end of the bargain, i'll talk about things from my perspective.

my MIL is a retired teacher.
and because she was a teacher, i held her to a higher standard.
as a teacher, you encourage your students to learn as much as they can.
she often did not want to learn something for fear it would make her look bad or embarrass her.
nobody ever gets something right the first time. you will make mistakes and it's okay. you get back up and you keep trying.
but she would not even try. we would go for chinese and she would not use chopsticks. nor would she learn in the privacy of her own home. she feared she would drop the food in front of us. but really, who cares? we never gave her a hard time about it. we would tell her that it was no big deal and that practice makes perfect. but she was so self conscious that she wouldn't even try.
and i always thought "you're a teacher! a good teacher encourages her students to learn and not give up when they make a mistake or fail at something. how could be a teacher and not do as you would say?"
even as a mother, you should encourage your kids to learn and never give up. what kind of example are you setting?
and i had little respect for her in that sense.
this is where i impose my way of things on her.
i strive to be the best in my profession and i expected her to do the same.

i actually really liked my FIL.
he had his quirks and his red-neck style didn't always mesh with this good girl from the big city.
but he was a wealth of knowledge and he was constantly learning about new things, and reading great books.
i could have endless discussions with him about history, economics. i took a genuine interest in his stamp collection. not because it was worth something. but because i saw how much passion he had in it. and my h wasn't the least bit interested in it.
i think my FIL was happy that i took an interest in stamps because he had planned on leaving it with my h after he passes. this way, someone will continue to build the collection and not just sell it to some dealer.
my FIL respected me as a person.

however, things are now completely different.
i'm now the family enemy who just married their son for his money. at least, that is what they perceive.
they've asked for reimbursement on wedding expenses that they've incurred willingly on their own.

it saddens me to see this happen.
i can't fix this now because if i contact my ILs, they would simply address me with a profanity charged tirade on how i am a spawn of satan.
this isn't mind reading. this is what my h has told me and warned me not to contact his parents.

this is probably the first post where i did not tear into my ILs. that is how i really felt about them.
i didn't hate them but i admit, i didn't handle the situation as mature as i could have.

it is no excuse that there were unresolved issues between my h and i prior to their arrival. and i should have separated the two things. but i let them get intertwined and the unresolved anger i had towards my h was not hidden as well as i thought. and it got directed towards my ILs.

i was so hurt by what my h said about not having confidence in my ability to handle motherhood. and the lack of compassion he showed when i told him how hurt i was. i couldn't have made it any more clear how hurt i was. and when he didn't apologize and had no inkling of sympathy, i couldn't hide it. i did for the first week his parents were here but by the second week, it started oozing out of my pores.

i understand now that you don't have to have a shouting match or big argument to show your anger. sometimes it shows when you dont even know it.

sorry to get all self-reflective. your post made me think and i had to put it in writing.

[DumpedforMIL]

What if she was bringing those childhood Christmas items to your home to share that part of his life with you? Your mind reading went to the destructive end of the spectrum when you assigned her motive. She may have indeed been reaching out. However - neither of us knows that - only she does.

yes, that is entirely possible. and my mind reading leaned heavily on the negative side. i don't think i ever gave her the benefit of the doubt.

i mentioned in my post above that i saw my FIL's passion in his stamp collection. i would have been honoured to continue building his passion.

my MIL wanted me to inherit and maintain things that i saw were general knick knacks and she didn't show any passion in these items - except that they were from her mother (h's grandmother). and again, it has nothing to do with the value of the items. some of the items my MIL wanted us to inherit were of value but i guess i didn't see the history and work behind these items that it made me not appreciate them as much as i probably should have.

i was preoccupied with wanting to start our (my h and i) traditions that i was disrespectful of his family traditions.

I recalled the things my MIL had said and done to me over 20+ years and decided that unwarranted cruelty like that must come from a hurting person. I put myself in her shoes and really tried to see it her from her side, with her hurts and scars and possible fears - gave her the benefit of the doubt in a lot of areas (b/c I'm kind) - and over time, I have come to see that her bad treatment of me is not about ME. It's about something else - who knows - but it's not my problem. No more anger. Compassion.

the thing is, i don't have to mind read to know that my mil is hurting.
i don't talk much about my h's sister. but he has an older sister who has been estranged from the family for about 5 yrs now. she cheated on her husband with a sleaze bag (drug & gambling addiction, w/criminal record, fraud, etc).
and she got pregnant.
my mil has longed for grandchildren and she has never seen this child. the child is 4 yrs old now and has never seen his grandmother.
my mil also has to listen to her friends talk about all the mother-daughter stuff they do. she has nothing to contribute because her daughter doesn't want anything to do with her.
my h wanted me to be the surrogate daughter. and at times, i did. i would take her shopping for clothes. i may not have been patient with her when she was here at christmas, but i was patient with her at the stores while she was trying on clothes. i wouldn't do a half-a$$ job either. i genuinely picked out styles and colours that i felt suited her.
but i do see the hurt in her. it must be terrible to lose a daughter like that and have to listen to your friends talk endlessly about the mother-daughter activities they do.

I have been able to use this experiential knowledge (replacing anger with compassion) in all areas of my life - my work, my children, my H, my friends, my sibs, people who cut me off in traffic, people on this forum... It's liberating.

i'm still working on being compassionate towards my h.
i can start to open my eyes on my ILs side.
but my h? i don't know.

this week, i had the strong urge to file for d.
i don't want to sit here and wait for the papers to be served to me.
i want to take control and go file myself.
i will serve him instead.
back in jan/feb he was adamant that d was the only way and he wanted out.
ok. so where are the papers? 7 months later, where are the papers? i want them. i don't want to be surprised later on.
i'm waiting for the dear john letter where he tells me he is no longer in love with me. i scoured the house looking for this dear john letter when he moved out.

please give it to me so i can move on.
let it be the final nail in the coffin.

thanks greek. you have helped me in many ways.

[Greek]

Gentle suggestion: make a T chart. "Reasons to file" on one side. "Reasons to wait to be served" on the other. Think (as opposed to feel) through the reasons for each, list them. Decide.

Greek

[DumpedforMIL]

my main reason for filing is to save myself.

when the d-bomb was dropped, it was like a knife was shoved in me.
when he took the initiative to sell the house without having prior discussions with me about it, it was like another knife in me.
when he tried to take charge of division of household goods, it was like another dig at me to get me riled up.
when his l sent my l a letter, i got antsy - (omg, it's really happening but i wanted to save my m. etc.)
when i received his financial statements and saw the ridiculous claims, i got antsy again - (omg, i didn't claim anything of his and here he is claiming every gift that belongs to me?! you know you can't do this and your l allowed this?! my legal team laughed at his financial statement because it was THAT stupid.)

when i get antsy, i lose sleep, i can't eat, and i can't think. i end up in this jekyll and hyde state and it shows in my posts.

each time, it was because i was caught off guard.
i don't want to be caught off guard anymore.
i don't want to react the way i did in the previous bombs.
my dear mom is finally feeling a sense of calm in me.
i don't look as worn or grey as i did when she last saw me.
she can see that i'm doing much better, gaining some weight, and my face is no longer sickly pale.

i do not want to go back to that low state.
in order to do that, i might as well get the ball rolling on the d papers and file myself.
it may not be what i wanted. but it's better than sitting here wondering when the next bomb will drop.
i'm tired of living like this.
i've gotten myself to a reasonable state that i don't want anything to ruin it.

[Dudess]

Did you come up with any reasons to wait?

[DumpedforMIL]

Did you come up with any reasons to wait?

first, i have no reason to believe that he wants to work things out.
he has refused counselling, refused to give me the real reason for d, and refused any discussion on how we could solve things on our own.
all of this was decided on back in january by him alone.
i had no say in the matter.
i didn't argue. i validated. ok, if this is what you want, then let's get going. how do you want to divide the furniture? do you want three chairs and i'll take three chairs?
he let out a gasp. "you've been planning this, haven't you?! here i am, on this emotional rollercoaster and you're already thinking about dividing furniture? oh i can see the gears turning in your head. you just want to win."

i let out a 'huh?' look man, you clearly stated that you felt that divorce was the only solution. i would be wasting my breath trying to convince you that there were other options. i'm just trying to make this easier and faster for you. but can you blame me for trying to protect myself? i knew it was coming. so of course i read up on it and got some advice.

i wanted to end it as amicably as possible. but as soon as money started factoring in, he turned it into an all out war. i've never wanted to get into a fight over money and things. but that's what it became. we were like children fighting over toys. it was so emotionally draining. the d-bomb wasn't as emotionally draining. it was the fighting over possessions that made me want to end my life.

never having been one to fight over material things. i hated doing it - i hated having to turn myself into a person who fought for things. but i couldn't be a doormat. he made his own rules and he decided what i should and should not get. if i didn't take a stand, he would have left me with a pillow and that's it.

i ended up having to spend a lot of my own money to buy my own things. i didn't have a tv, didn't have a bed, i didn't have a coffee mug (he took all 30 of them), i didn't have cutlery (he took the entire set), i didn't have a juice glass (he took all 20 of them), i didn't have dishes.
he wanted to break up my set of pots and pans by claiming half of the pieces. but he hoarded everything that was his.
and then he had to balls to call me greedy.

there was enough in our house to furnish two homes. but my h would rather take it all and put it in storage than to let me have some.

i'm lucky i had saved my money and was able to cover my own expenses but i took a financial hit. because of this, i am not able to get spousal support from him. i did not even ask for spousal support. he thought i was going to garnish his wages and he thought i was going to be vindictive and petty and come after everything. he was bracing for a huge financial loss.

that's so not me. he should know by now that i'm not about material things.

i guess i feel like it's one hit after another after another that i just want to put an end to it.

there is no reason to believe he is going to turn around. i still sense that he's extremely angry with me for being entitled to 50% of the proceeds from the sale of our home. he's asked for all of my jewellery, including my wedding ring and engagement ring.

i actually did not know that filing for divorce required that the LBS be served with papers. i had to ask my lawyer how would i know if he filed?

so if i haven't received papers yet, then does this mean he hasn't filed? why wait? 7 months ago, he was the only solution. i expected him to have filed back in february.
but we are physically separated now. we have little to no contact. i don't want to sit here and wonder if today is the day i get served.

why delay the inevitable? just put the final nail in the coffin. this is what he wanted.

if i were to wait ...

one reason would be for financial reasons.
he wanted the divorce, he can do the paperwork, he can file and he can pay for it all. i will not split the cost with him.
i didn't ask for this d. and if we still d in the end, i can say that i didn't push it along. i have no kids so i don't have to explain to my children that i did my best to save our family.

another reason for me to wait is to let the one year run its course and give him that entire time to think about things. i've given him time, space, and whatever throughout the separation. can i survive another 5 months? do i want to? let's be honest, do you really think he's going to wake up from this fog? i have my doubts. so why delay the inevitable?

[Forrest Gump]

"first, i have no reason to believe that he wants to work things out."

He does not need a reason. You posted.

You let him control you. Even when he is not there.

I have no reason to believe that you can change things.

Other than you posted.. and raised your hand.

I "see" where you are going.

I want to change that.

You don't want change. You just want proof that you were right.

"so why delay the inevitable?"

Don't delay.. do it.

Go with what you know.

It has served you so well in the past.