New here, not sure where to start

[PEI]

And why does trying to reason with them push them away?

I know I'm not eric (no tutu here!) but I'm chiming in anyway ... Because in trying to 'reason' with them you are INVALIDATING how they feel. Trying to reason with them is one big BUT ... and it often plays out like this ...

LBS: I understand how you feel (attempt at validation), BUT why can't we just ...

LBS: It's been tough for the last while, BUT isn't what we had worth fighting for ...

LBS: I realize you are hurting, BUT can't we work together to make it better ...

You see where I'm going with this ... 'reasoning' with them ends up being a lame attempt at validation followed by a big ole BUT!

All of this confirms for them that YOU AREN'T LISTENING! They are saying they are done, they have nothing left, they don't love you, they love someone else, they never loved you ... whatever the script is ... and you are not letting them feel how they feel. You are saying you feel differently and your feeling are more important.

And does DB work for MLC..if so, which things?

DBing works on YOU. It doesn't matter if your H is MLC, WAH, alien or whatever ... DBing is for you. It's not a tactic to employ just to win someone back and then you sit back and go, "whew! Glad that worked!"


Your thread is not the place for me to lay out my story ... it's in my two threads (and in case you haven't heard, I'm rather long winded ) ... in a nutshell, I'm in a good place, but I got here by being brutally honest with myself and with some very close friends (a lot of them here) about ME, MYSELF and I. It was damn hard, and it happened in pieces. I have embraced growth and learning and truth in my life and I regularly do battle with my demons and monsters. Have a read through and we can chat about specifics if you like ...


You didn't answer my questions about YOUR role in this?

PEI

[ericmsant2]

Tay

FTR - gentle is not always the best way to deliever the message. We are all different here. Before I respond I want you to know that if someone like JB3 says something too you that may piss you off there is usually a reason for it. I can tell you that I did not listen to him and paid the price. So please don't focus on the tone but rather the message. FTR - many others have been at this much longer than me and I would really pay close attention to there advice.

The LBS cannot reason with the MLCer IMO for several reasons.

1) The LBS has usually had a significant role in the M issues. Tay, it is so easy to look at someone else than it is to look at yourself. What most here will tell you is to look at yourself and not the MLCer. Why? cause really you can't fix someone else. Ya just can't although we think we can.
2) Your MLCer is going thru some serious emotional and mental issues and CANNOT (read again) CANNOT reason right now. Think of it this way...Can you reason with a teenager can you? I know I can't.

So why does reasoning with them push them away...
Have you ever purchased a car or been to a furniture store to buy a sofa or something. Usually, the salespeople come running up to you. Usually you feel preasured. Yep Pressure. That is what you are doing when you keep trying to reason or have a conversation with your H. Believe it or not..he is not the same person right now.

Okay so you want to know what DB tactics work...quite simply DETACH and try a few 180's and finally, Stop TALKING TO HIM about the R. This stuff takes time Tay...a lot of time. Please don't rush it.

Finally, for GAL activity it is pretty simple..what do you like to do? What can you afford to do? What really makes you happy? What will keep your mind off of your H and this situation?

Eric

[ltaylor]

Eric (and Jack) ..I'm not pissed. Everyone responds differenly to different approaches. jack tends to be like my brother..a little sarcastic. And I love my brother dearly, it's just not as easy for me to talk to him as it is, say..my BFF. I am a little sensitive right now too..this whole thing with my H has left me feeling quite bruised and rejected. I'm all about honestly and I'll be the first to admit if I have a problem or am doing something wrong. I've never had a problem with that. I just need to understand the logic behind the principle. I'm not going to blindly jump off a bridge unless I know what's down there waiting for me. I like to weigh my options..but first I have to find out what the options are.

I know all of you guys have been where I am right now and have probably tried the things I have and thought the same thoughts I'm thinking. It's pretty cool that you are all here trying to help us newbies.

[ltaylor]

My role in the demise of our marriage:

1. I analyze things to death and while I'm willing to listen to others, I usually always think my way is best and try to show them why it is. (Jack's thinking..see, I knew it!!). I will however, admit when I'm wrong and if shown the logic of the new way, throw myself into that with Gusto!!

2. I have yo-yoed with my weight over the years for whatever the reason. Doesn't matter why. I gained weight. Looked and felt frumpy and my self esteem took a hit because of it.

3. I went into a sort of depression when we had to move here 3.5 years ago for my H job. I loved the house we moved from and was extremely happy there. I was resentful because we had to move from there. I didn't know anyone here, couldn't visit my friends and family easily, and when my H suggested that I could retire early and do some of the stuff that I hadn't had a chance to do before when I was working..i did. It was a mistake. I became dependent, shut myself in like a hermit, clung to him like a wet rag when he came home and lost myself.

4. I missed some of the clues to his unhappiness over the years. If I had been a better listener or was watching for little nuances, I may have seen them.

5. Sex became routine and boring..I attribute that to the weight gain. i was self-conscious..but not enough to do take care of it. I told myself that he should love me for who I am not what I look like.

6. I became more of a best friend than a wife..because i thought that is what you're supposed to do. Boundaries became fuzzy.

7. Speaking of boundaries..I've never really had any..didn't even know what they were. Still kinda new to that whole concept.

8. And there is something I should have been able to do about the stepkid thing..my 3 and his 1. We never really seemed to be able to figure out how to develop a closer bond with each other's kids. i thought it would just work itself out..but never did. He thinks my kids don't really care about him (and they do) and I think his doesn't really care about me either. he didn't take on a parenting role with mine and I didn't with his..he wanted it that way.

I'm sure I'll think of more..but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm working on all of the above, now that I've identified them. My C helped me with that.

[irishblessings]

We must be twins!

My identical responses would be #1, #2, #3(early on - bout 11 years ago), #4, #5, #6, #7.

But I have worked my a$$ off over the last 3 years - when we went into intensive MC for infidelity. My kids, friends, family all see a huge difference in me - but H feels like it wasn't enough and he doesn't have confidence in me that I won't "relapse" into these old ways.

If MLCrs have "scripts" - do LBS have "textbook like" characteristics or feelings as stated above?

[ltaylor]

irish..hopefully one of the old timers will answer that for you. It would appear so to me, but I really shouldn't give any conclusions at this point because I'm really new to all of this.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

LBSers all think they are exception to the rule when they first get here. : ) (Mostly) ALL of them hope they are.

Taylor I didn't think you were pissed. Look at the way I talk I wouldn't care too much, not trying to be mean...but I can spend my time elsewhere.

I see in you a thinker...and that is good and bad. Once you understand it...you will UNDERSTAND it. Until then though, you'll try to outlogic a crazy person. You can OUT-CRAZY them...but not out-think them...in MLC...you have a CHANCE to outlast them.

PEI...impressed. Big time and Eric as well listen to those two Good advice from people not too far down the road from you.

I'm married, I'm not struggling, I post here to remind myself to walk the walk not just talk the talk. Those guys are in the trenches with you...


Before you ask, No. What I did worked for me. I doubt it will work ...in specifics for anyone else. I used the DBing principals to help me, I succeeded because I am a better man, father, friend and husband...my wife just happened to want to stay married to me.

[job]

Taylor,
If you have been reading the archives, you will have read about depression being the main ingredient to the crisis. Why don't you take some time and read up on depression? When people are depressed, you cannot talk to them. They are in so much pain that all they can focus on will be themselves.

I also have mentioned many, many times on this forum that they are in a very emotional state, as well as others mentioning it. When someone is acting out in an emotional state, you can't reason w/them. They are bouncing off the walls. You cannot sit and try to analyze their every move or comment...why? Because they are spinning out of control and they say and do things off the top of their heads. If you sit and do the analyzing thing, it will drive you crazy.

Yes, you are a thinker, and I am going to say this...you cannot out think them, manipulate or control them. You cannot reason w/them and you cannot corner them for they will come out swinging and most of the time, if they are pushed, the divorce word will come into play.

Read, read and read....not only the board, but read up on depression. The more you read about depression, the more you will see some of the symptoms that your h is exhibiting.

BTW, you asked what stage we thought your h was in....I believe your h is in replay and he's going to be there for a while.

There is no magic potion that you can drop in a caldron and wake them up. They have to wake up in their own time w/o any interruptions by us. Sorry, but you do not have any control over his waking up....only God has that control.

Now, my question to you is this...what are your plans for the weekend? Have you made a list of things that you would like to accomplish while your h is being a pod person? The list should include items that you want or need to do that have been sitting for a while.

[ltaylor]

Jack..I don't want you to spend time elsewhere. I value your opinion. I'm a little sensitive right now, that's all. I can tell you're a smart guy and have good advice. I'm just a little bruised right now and trying to recover my self esteem.

[ltaylor]

Snodderly..I'll get to your questions in a minute..I have one of my own. Allen suggested that I "bust" the affair. Not sure what he means by that yet. I'm waiting to hear back from him. But I kind of was under the impression that you guys here are suggesting not to mess with the A. Did I misunderstand?