WHEN you ignore the advice (statiscally speaking you're going to) about not talking about your marriage below are the examples of guilt you have verbally used.
You might not mean it, or even see it. But just reading it and attempting to put myself in his shoes, I could feel it.
Add to that the physical, the look on your face when your sad about the way things currently are, its in one of your earlier posts.
You said not to give up on you...that doesn't mean coddle by the way. My concern is for YOU not him. You, and then your marriage.
Quote:
I asked why..because he's afraid girlfriend might call or text while I was playing?
Later I told him that I thought it was sad that his wife couldn't play a game on his phone because he was worried his GF might call. I asked him "what's wrong with this picture?"
I said that he is hurting me tho, by continuing to have a relationship with her.
I also told him he was my favorite person in the whole world.
Just a few examples.
The last one? The favorite person one...doesn't seem like it. Have your read either Divorce Busting or Remedy book yet?
Come across the part where Michele says NOT to say "I love you." yet?
It is like that you don't say it, because you remind them that they (currently) don't.
The theory that you do not talk about your marriage is that the LBS doesn't have the knowledge to avoid traps, pitfalls, emotions...the expectations that they can do this again soon. Lots of different reasons.
Usually the LBSer asks questions where they HOPE for a certain type of answer...and things go to hell in a handbasket quickly when those answers aren't the ones they hear.
Usually the LBSer turns all clingy and crying, or screaming and upset.
It affects the calm of the LBSer...and it is a place of landmines and snipers. Not a good place for most until the LBSer gets more of a sense of self again.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Guys..if your wife had cancer and she needed a ride to chemo, or someone to make her meals..would you do it? Of course you would. Because she's sick and you want to help her get thru it with the least amount of pain. You wouldn't turn your back on her and just tell her to figure it out for herself, would you? Why is this any different then? In my opinion, this thing he's going thru is like a sickness..even tho referred to as a transition..and in the end is supposed to be good for the MCLer and the LBSer. I believe it is still a sickness. He is confused, hurt, lashing out, doing things that are exactly the opposite of his normal behavior, vulnerable, not thinking clearly, in a daze. I know he has to figure it out for himself..but damn..jumping ship is not ok in my book. If I were going thru this, I would want him to be there for me. Now granted, I would get pissed if he were hovering around me like a mommy, and freaked out if he tried to tell me what to do..but i would appreciate it if he tried to be patient, reason with me, explain what he knows about it etc.
I am going to stop here and just say that all of you have been dealing with this longer than I have. But since all MLCers are unique, how can there be specific tactics/strategies that work? I want there to be things that have worked for others so I can try them..and I will listen and try them. But i always look at situations as if I were in their place. And in this case, it's pretty hard for me because it seems like a mental illness..or like alcoholism..which I have had to deal with over and over with friends and family over the years. And I couldn't help them either. So..what I have read in other threads is true..a spouse's MLC actually makes us LBSs go thru their own version of a MLC but at least we're coherent. I told my H last night that this may have been exactly what we needed to have happen to get to the next level, for us as a couple and for us as individuals..and I told him that I wouldn't have chosen anyone else to accompany me on this journey. Cup 1/2 full. Think positive, believe in miracles, never give up on your dreams.
ltaylor, I understand everything you said. If my ex or my WH needed me to take care of them, I would be there in a second. They know that. But what your WS has right now is contagious - to you. Everything that is wrong in his life is your fault, and nothing you say will change that - while he feels this way. What it will do is drag you down mentally and physically until you aren't in shape to take care of yourself or anybody else. Going dark with my husband is what enabled me to stay sane, and I feel better now than I have in a very long time, even before the split.
Sometimes, support has to be from the sidelines, not on the gamefield.
Let me ammend before you think that came off as trite.
It was.
To a degree.
Some of the stuff sounds the same, and some of it is leaps ahead of where most people start off. The mental illness part.
The possiiblity of you thinking that you can talk him out of an MLC OR that your situation is different...is actually...ironically VERY common.
Specific strategies: No pressure. Pressure on a depressed person, and they squirt away.
You are right in the fact that every individual is UNIQUE, however there are some generalities and common denominators:
MOST have an affair.
MOST say that it is a friendship.
MOST are actually more than friends.
MOST lie about it.
MOST say "I love you but I am not in love with you."
MOST are confused.
MOST want what is good in both the affair and the marriage...none of the bad.
MOST blame the spouse for their problems.
MOST have some incident in their childhood that fuckedthemupbutgood.
You have your head in the right place for alot of your thinking...the right place to stand as long as you can.
YOU cannot fix him though.
And no one hear has not said do not be there for him...but only when he needs you, and only if it is good for you.
You GAL and focus on you and you won't have the time to wait aroun don the off chance he needs you.
Seriously, you are afraid that GALing and focusing on you will send him the wrong message...that you are not interested in him? We disagree. It shows him that you are interested in bettering yourself. And THAT is attractive.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Jack, I really don't think I can talk him out of his MLC. I know it is what I refer to as a "growth spurt" and necessary for his big leap into manhood. I am actually excited to see the man he is about to become..and hope that I get to. I know he needs to figure this out for himself, just like I had to get thru the couple of massive growth spurts that I have been thru. I am going thru one now. My friends and family are there for me, and granted, I'm much more clear headed about it since
Guys..if your wife had cancer and she needed a ride to chemo, or someone to make her meals..would you do it? Of course you would. Because she's sick and you want to help her get thru it with the least amount of pain. You wouldn't turn your back on her and just tell her to figure it out for herself, would you? Why is this any different then? In my opinion, this thing he's going thru is like a sickness..even tho referred to as a transition..and in the end is supposed to be good for the MCLer and the LBSer. I believe it is still a sickness. He is confused, hurt, lashing out, doing things that are exactly the opposite of his normal behavior, vulnerable, not thinking clearly, in a daze. I know he has to figure it out for himself..but damn..jumping ship is not ok in my book. If I were going thru this, I would want him to be there for me. Now granted, I would get pissed if he were hovering around me like a mommy, and freaked out if he tried to tell me what to do..but i would appreciate it if he tried to be patient, reason with me, explain what he knows about it etc.
I am going to stop here and just say that all of you have been dealing with this longer than I have. But since all MLCers are unique, how can there be specific tactics/strategies that work? I want there to be things that have worked for others so I can try them..and I will listen and try them. But i always look at situations as if I were in their place. And in this case, it's pretty hard for me because it seems like a mental illness..or like alcoholism..which I have had to deal with over and over with friends and family over the years. And I couldn't help them either. So..what I have read in other threads is true..a spouse's MLC actually makes us LBSs go thru their own version of a MLC but at least we're coherent. I told my H last night that this may have been exactly what we needed to have happen to get to the next level, for us as a couple and for us as individuals..and I told him that I wouldn't have chosen anyone else to accompany me on this journey. Cup 1/2 full. Think positive, believe in miracles, never give up on your dreams.
Take it up with MWD, LT. It is her concepts that we're advocating here -- that and also what we've all seen WORK (and what we've seen categorically NOT work).
Yes, it's incredibly counter-intuitive. But let's face it, your own instincts and intuition got you where you are . . . right?
Jack, I really don't think I can talk him out of his MLC. I know it is what I refer to as a "growth spurt" and necessary for his big leap into manhood. I am actually excited to see the man he is about to become..and hope that I get that chance. I know he needs to figure this out for himself, just like I had to get thru the couple of massive growth spurts that I have been thru in my life. I am going thru one now, as a result of his MLC. My friends and family are there for me, and granted, I'm much more clear headed about it since what I'm going thru isn't depression or mental illness..but it has still been a tough row to hoe..not only for me but for my support group as well. I thank God every day for my little group of people who have been there for me from day 1. I'm not sure how I would have done it w/o them.
I also have seen the similarities between the symptoms that repeatedly pop up on this form regarding the MLC behavior. He has many of those symptoms/behaviors. The things I didn't know and am learning from you guys are things like:
MLCers can't handle pressure..and that they run away if they are feeling any pressure. He was always good when there was a stressful sitch or any kind of pressure. I didn't realize that he couldn't handle ANY while he is dealing with this. Now I need to figure out what I'm doing that may be interpreted by him as pressure. The talks, I'm sure and some of the things I say..didn't stop to think about my telling him he is my favorite person..and how that might be perceived as pressure or make him feel guilty. His LL is words of affirmation, so I was trying to support him.
How detaching is good for me. And I hope that you guys will continue to spell it out in detail as you have been doing because for some odd reason I am having a hard time grasping just how to do it on a day to day basis.
And all of you are right too in saying that being confident, looking good, doing stuff for myself, smiling and being happy is attractive. I have actually made massive strides in this area since starting the Wellbutrin. It evens me out and stops the anxiety and panic attacks. Those were definately NOT attractive. I'm sure I freaked him right out with that.
He has told me that he misses me when he doesn't hear from me for awhile..when he's traveling..and he also said that when he was living away from home for those couple of months. So, I need to get doing some stuff away from him and our house and let him miss me.
With each down swoop of the rollercoaster, I have inched my way to formulating a plan for what I will do if this doesn't work out. The plan gets easier to envision. When this first happened, I couldn't IMAGINE my life without him. I still want to grow old with him more than anything, but I know I'll be ok if it doesn't happen. I seem to think I can break thru that fog just enough to help him see what he's throwing away. And I guess I underestimated the hold this has over the MLCers. There really is nothing I can do..and that makes me feel so helpless. Watching him spiral out of control, saying and doing all these crazy things that he never ever would have done before.
Praying has been one of my constants. God loves me no matter what and always has my best interests in mind.
Thanks for saying I'm doing some stuff right..sometimes it doesn't feel that way. Once in a while I beat myself up but it doesn't last long because I do know I'm a pretty good human being. I've got alot to learn but I like learning so that's all good.
Please keep the tips coming. I'm listening and absorbing like a sponge.
Puppy, yes my behavior is what has gotten me here all right. I was actually really taken with MDW when I read her book "A woman's guide to changing her man without his even knowing it". I think the title has changed for that book now. And I did buy Divorce Remedy. I have read a few chapters. there is also a forum section that just deals with 180 ideas. So, i'll have to read that too. Her positive attitude and examples/detailed explanations are just what I needed.
Someone mentioned Codependency. I need to do some reading about that too. My C recommended that in our last session.
Can any of you venture a guess as to what stage of MLC my H might be in? It might help in coming up with 180s or behavior changes for me.
