Well, the advice (and my gut feeling) was to not ask him about his FT appt. last week afterwards, unless he wanted to discuss it and he never did. I am thinking I will have a better feel for things after I talk to FT today.
Update: FT believes that H is not ready to take any kind of responsibility for his part in his unhappiness. She sees him as still blaming me and wanting to point fingers. Says she believes he is in a confused state and doesn't want to have to deal. There was no revelation (apparently) when he was there last week of anything going on with anyone - or at least that's what I inferred. (Not that he would divulge that right away anyway.) He mostly just talked about how much he resented earning all the money and me and the kids spending it all and him not getting anything out of it. He complained about the messy house (that has now been totally clean for way over a month) and how that frustrated him. She feels that with his background, he does not value his family... at least not right now. There was a lot of looking for justification for his feelings on his part. When she mentioned to him that I had been clinically depressed before going on anti-depressants, he sloughed it off as an excuse.
SO...basically, she held his feet to the fire about his needing to look at himself and I'm guessing that's why he does not want to go back. I can see that, if he is not ready to actually do any problem solving!
When I made a comment about him not going back to FT in my reply email to him earlier, I never got a response from him about it. SO...I guess that door is shut, at least for now.
As for practicalities and how to live with him on a daily basis: more of the same, basically. She feels I am doing the right thing by being the adult in the house and that I need to do more of that, starting with finances. She wants me to do a budget and present it to him, to show him I am capable of handling money wisely. In DB terms, I guess this is part of my 180s - to fix a core issue that was wrong in the R.
As for the whole question of trusting him being faithful, she feels I don't have a lot of choice but to do so for now but I'm not sure I agree with that. ??? I have to think on that one.
YOu have to ACT as IF you trust him until you have more intel.. she didn't tell you to NOT collect INTEL right?
Until you have more info you act as if he's faithful... that's fair.. you don't have anything solid yet, even your instincts aren't sure of what's going on.. that's NOT enough to confront him with yet
I will definitely continue trying! I figure if he's up to something, he's going to slip sooner or later. I will say a lot of his suspicious behavior has stopped. He doesn't act defensive anymore either. He's not totally open - not leaving the cellphone around the house - but if I ask about something casually I don't get the angry/defensive response I was getting a month ago. Doesn't mean I'll let me guard down - just taking note.
It's Saturday and a weird day for me. When I reflect back on the week it seems like H is acting more like his old self - acting nicer, not as distant. I know I still have intel to collect but frankly, I don't feel very suspicious because he is not behaving like a man involved outside the M anymore. He has come straight home after work - been asking the boys to run with him. (I would bike along but I've been puking the last 2 days. Will definitely do it if welcomed once I feel better!) On the other hand, he still is pretty guarded with the cellphone and still spends a lot of time on the XBox (not as much though). He has not been defensive at all and been very appreciative of anything I've done for him.
Went to the movies today with the kids. It was nice. It's still odd. H will now look over and smile, etc... but still makes no attempt at any loving gestures - say, holding my hand - like he used to.
I don't know what to make of it. It feels like we are "friends". I don't know whether to take it as a good sign or not. Perhaps it's good and that he can see his way back or perhaps he's just happy that I'm not upset and he doesn't have to feel guilty. Who knows!
At this point I guess I'm still not to initiate R talk. Would love to know where his head is at but maybe it's best not to think on that right now. Hmmm....
Just a quick update: H left this morning for a business trip and won't be back until Wed. night. The thing is, I'm not concerned or worried at all about what he could be up to while he's gone. I'm actually feeling a bit relieved that he won't be around for a few days because I can just "be" and not be wondering what he is/is not thinking or feeling...
I'm giving some serious thought to FT though. Quite frankly, if he is not going to go, I'm not sure I feel the need to spend the money for me to go. Maybe that's the wrong way of looking at things but I think I am in a good place and don't need to go by myself. I could be fooling myself. Any thoughts??? It isn't like the FT gives me a whole lot of specific direction... Heck, a DB coach might be better worth the money.
Classes start for me on Thursday! I'm very excited!!!
Well, here I sit after spending most of the last few days trying to help others be strong and hopefully, encouraging them that they are worth more than the way they are being treated. I truly feel this is what I want to do, professionally - help others in this situation and it's a good way to work through my own feelings over my situation.
HOWEVER... as I reflect right now, I am not doing as good a job discerning what to do in my situation! I guess it's always harder to know what to do about your own M because your emotions are involved. It's easier to look at others and be objective.
I'm not waivering on knowing I need to be "tough" (yet loving) but I truly need help in thinking about exactly how to do that in my given circumstance!
Here's a recap (for my own benefit as well as anyone else's who may want to chime in).
2 1/2 months ago H says he thinks he wants out: all my fault, of course: some issues I do believe are valid that he brings up but not enough to warrant D. H claims he only give 40% chance of M working out because he doesn’t believe I can change – that we are not good for each other.
Reactions: at first I tried reasoning with him, to no avail. I was lucky I’d read Dobson because I knew better than to beg or plead. I did make changes that addressed H’s complaints. I also became suspicious because I figured OW had to be involved somehow. (H had online A 13 years ago.) He denied anything like that saying I was using that as an “out” rather than facing up to my own issues. I snooped some – on his cellphone and FB account (had his password at the time). Found some things I didn’t care for, but nothing really damaging. He discovered my snooping and got snippy. I gave him an “I give up” speech – that he could do what he wanted – I could not control his behavior but wasn’t going to stand by and take it either.
Results: Worst weekend to date after that. H slept in office and did apt research. That Sun night I received a text msg by mistake he meant for an old GF discussing the old days of them having sex. When confronted he claimed he was leaving anyway. Big fight – kids found out about D being laid on the table, were very upset. However, that night, H ended up back in our room. I began IC the next day.
From there: big email exchange (posted on Callasdad’s thread – can post here if anyone wants to see it) with discussion of R. Good job, but didn’t know about DBing or Exposing or the likes yet. H stopped all talks of leaving M. I found DB and started GAL and 180s and H has not slept in office anymore. His behavior has vacillated, however, sometimes being warm other times being completely detached. At first, I thought we were on the road to total reconciliation because H even wanted to go to MC. After his first (and only) appt, however, he has not mentioned going back. FT says he is not ready to take any responsibility for his 50%. He went alone and spouted all the stuff about me ruining our finances and my depression issues being a complete excuse… etc. H made the comment to me that he appreciated all the big changes I’ve made. BUT…he also made the comment that he wasn’t sure he could ever feel “that way” about me again. He loved me and was attracted to me physically, loved me but not in love with me… His actions seem to indicate there is no A but I do believe there was possibly an EA or the start of one, in all this. He longer seeks to be outside the home or acts suspiciously, however, does keep his cell close by him at all times still. FT does not seem to believe there is PA.
Overall climate: At first, H went out of his way when he saw me upset to hold me, hug me, comfort me. (guilt maybe???) These days, he does not. Of course, these days I’m not acting upset anymore – no crying or acting hurt. His anger has subsided and he is very appreciative of anything I do for him. We do things together – mostly with the kids – and he acts fine. He makes absolutely no attempt though to be affectionate towards me. Well, except if he wants sex and then he reaches out. There’s been no talk of leaving or wanting out or about the R at all in 2 weeks. Things are very civil. Yet, there’s also been no talk of him returning to counseling or him saying ILY or anything else like that. I don’t know what to make of this.
Specific Examples: H is out of town. He makes sure to call me at night and is friendly, discussing his day and where he’s at. Asks quickly about my day but not in any detail. He seems to stay on the phone with me for no particular reason, yet does not say ILY when it’s time to go. Contrast: a month ago when he went to Vegas and was saying he was pretty sure he wanted out, he called me and said what a great time he was having, and said ILY when he went to hang up. This is most confusing to me! Why was he saying ILY back when he was also saying he wanted out – and not saying it now, after giving up all the weird behavior and constant talk of getting out???
Oh – and btw: when I came home from my first counseling session and when he came home from Vegas, he practically attacked me. Is that not strange???
SO: here is my dilemma: according to DBing, I shouldn’t bring up R talk to H or discuss him returning to FT: it should be his idea or his initiating conversation. How am I supposed to know if I am in reconciliation mode (making myself the better option, trying to reconnect with him) or if he is still “out there” and I should still be detaching and in total tough mode??? I’m very confused!
As you can see in my above post, the FT isn’t helping me with these specifics, so I guess I’m just looking for other opinions and some direction. I know to continue GAL and 180s, but don’t know what, exactly, that all entails right now or how to draw him in. Do I try Seeing Red’s approach of late or am I to be the hard-to-get challenge because he’s still not falling in line???
I know that if H is truly committed to restoring the M that he has to be willing to let me see that darn cellphone – and give me email/FB passwords – whenever I ask… but I don’t know if it is the time to bring that up yet. And how am I to know if I’m not supposed to initiate R talk???
PS: I apologize for the length of the above, but thought a recap might be good for my review and so others don't have to try and go back through the whole thread.
Allen, thanks for the help thus far as you're the only one I've heard from on a regular basis...I appreciate it! I assure you I'm not back to square one. I just don't know what to make of the change in climate and not sure where to go from here. I need help to think clearly about what's transpired and why - and what to do about it now! I feel I'm in a stalemate and don't want to be.
