A few background details: DH and I have been married for 2 years. Dating for 13. He just turned 30, I'm 29. We've never broken up. He never had any real relationships before me (although I told him many times, before we married, that if he needed that I'd respect that, but he needed to do it honestly). I had a few meaningless, 2-3 week relationships before him. DH and I were best friends before we began dating seriously.
One month ago, I discovered DH was having an OEA with a woman who lived 500 miles away. I caught him the day before his 30th birthday when I came downstairs in the middle of the night for water. I overheard him talking to someone and walked into the office to find him on a web-cam with a woman who had her top off (although the cam was positioned so you only saw her cleavage). I didn't say a word, and just glared at him. He had the most panic-stricken look on his face. I walked away and back up to our bedroom, and he appeared in the doorway a few seconds later, crying (this is the first time I had ever seen my very emotionally "controlled" husband cry). He immediately fessed up to what was going on, began crying out my name and pleading me not to leave him, telling me he knew he screwed up big time, saying it was all his fault and not mine -- before I had even said a word to him.
We spent the next few days talking, crying, trying to figure out what to do. I asked him lots of questions about the affair. She's 22, in a 4-year relationship herself (claims she's unhappy and her BF neglects her), she knows about me (and that we're married). DH states they have never met in person, that the topless thing was the first time that had happened, but that they had told each other "I love you". They met last year via an online video game community (which I knew about, and I had seen him playing with her but never really questioned it). This led to casual chatting, which led to an exchange of phone numbers, and eventually they began texting and chatting online frequently. About a month before I caught him, they began talking on web-cam as well.
I should add in that this is not his first EA. 10 years ago (exactly), when we had been dating only 3 years, he had an EA with a woman he worked/had classes with. They started off as "just friends", but soon I began to suspect something was wrong -- he refused to introduce me to her, and he claimed it was because she refused to meet me. He'd call her and hang out with her a lot. I even caught him lying to me about his contact with her. After a few months of that, I made the decision to leave. I felt that I loved him deeply enough that if he needed to explore his options and/or he wasn't happy with me, that the most loving thing I could do for both of us was to let him go. So I began pulling away and trying to move on internally. He was away at a conference so I planned to actually break it off when he returned. In retrospect, I think I started doing the 180 (without even knowing what it was). It took him almost no time at all to pick up on it, and he did a 180 of his own. Suddenly he was clinging to me after months of pushing me away. Suddenly he was confessing to what had been going on with OW #1 (after months of denying my suspicions). I decided to be cautiously optimistic and stuck it through. Unfortunately, neither of us handled the aftermath as we should have. I gave in to jealousy, suspicion, resentment and was unable to let the first EA go. Even up until earlier this year, I'd still sometimes bring it up (but always in relation to some behavior/circumstance that reminded me of the first EA). This really hurt and alienated DH, and caused a lot of fights. I believe I was never able to fully let it go because DH initially refused to cut OW #1 off. At first he insisted on being friends with her, because they worked in the same career (and still do), and he didn't want to burn bridges that could later hurt his career. I tried to be somewhat accommodating about that. But I was not very good at setting really firm boundaries with him. He eventually turned this in to just avoiding her, but he never actually told her the friendship was over. I feel confident the actual EA had stopped, but I was not okay with her calling him up out of the blue like they were just old friends catching up. 5 years later, I had had enough. I put my foot down and issued an ultimatum (which I was solidly behind). I told him he either cut it off with her completely, or I was gone. He immediately agreed, and I asked him to write her an email (didn't know it at the time, but it was a "No Contact" email which almost perfectly followed the guidelines!) He showed it to me for my approval, and then sent it in my presence. When she replied (with a very manipulative, selfish response) he immediately showed it to me. He told me he did not respond.
continued in the next post...
Me: 29 Him: 30 Married: 2 years Together: 13 years No kids Bomb: 6/4/10 Started MC: 7/16/10
In the first few days after discovery, I decided I wanted to stay and try to fix our marriage (even though up until discovery I had always told him, and others, that if he cheated again I was gone -- I even used to tell him I'd "make him pay" and "take him for everything I could" if he broke my heart again). I realized that despite this, I still love him very deeply, and that I take marriage very seriously and don't believe you enter in to such a commitment without being willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. I communicated this to him, and he said he really wanted that too. He kept telling me (even before I told him what I decided) that I was "a perfect wife", that he "needed me", he "couldn't live without me", he "didn't want to lose me and everything we've built/had together", and that he'd "never find anyone better than me/who could replace me". I told him he needed to go NC with OW, and he agreed. But he was having a really hard time with it, and having withdrawals. We called her on the phone, together, and he told her he had decided to stay with me, that I decided to stick by him and work it out, and that he had to end his relationship/friendship with her for good. Then I got on the phone and told her (in a very calm, mature manner) that I loved my husband deeply; that I wanted her to realize I wasn't just "DH's wife", but that I was a real person with feelings that were deeply hurt by what had transpired, and that I hoped she'd learn that so she'd never hurt herself or others like this again; that DH told me about her relationship and that I hoped she figured out a healthy way of dealing with those issues without hurting others in the process. She didn't really say much except that "It's not what you think. We are just really good friends". I responded that they were not really "good friends", they were having an EA. (I wish at the time I had thought to say "Good friends don't take their shirts off for each other on camera.")
DH then deleted her contact info from his phone in front of me. Unfortunately, he didn't delete her text messages, so the next day (when he was returning home from confessing to his parents), he tried calling her on a pay phone - but she didn't answer. He came home immediately and told me what he had done. I was upset, but told him I was proud of him for telling me. He claimed he was "worried about her", and feared that she might hurt herself, and he couldn't live with himself if he knew he caused someone to kill themselves. (Personally, I think that's some extreme reaching, and he admits she's never indicated suicidal tendencies before).
Over the next few weeks we spent a lot of time talking about issues in our marriage and with each other. I have been seeing an IC (ironically, I started seeing her a week before the discovery, and she had even asked me if I thought DH was having an affair, based on what I was telling her -- to which I responded "No. I don't believe that he is" -- so stupid!) and began to make some big changes in myself. I began working hard to not allow anger and resentment take over (and I think have been doing a really good job). DH has complained for years that he wants me to go to the gym with him or run with him (things he enjoys), and for my own stupid/stubborn reasons (some of which result from earlier days in our relationship) I would always resist (even though I frequently thought that I wanted to do those things with him, but was too proud/stubborn to back down). So I began going for walks with him, and then we began running together (he started training me). He also told me he doesn't feel needed by me because I'm a very independent person (learned from my own childhood issues/abuse), and instead of coming to him I usually just find the answers or figure out how to do things on my own. I accepted that, and have been making serious efforts to let him "take care" of me more (for instance, I injured my foot a week ago, and he offered to stay home from work to care for me -- normally I'd tell him "no" and that I'd be fine, but I let him stay home and care for me; and I also was patient and very open while he was giving me advice about running, whereas in the past I would have said "well, I read online that I should be doing XYZ instead..."). I've also been working to meet other needs of his, and correct other deficient behaviors on my part. Ultimately, all of these are things I wanted to change in myself anyway, and were what drove me to start seeing an IC in the first place. Whether he and I work things out, I know that I need to work on being healthier for myself, and for any future relationships I may have.
We've been looking for a MC, but have had a really tough time finding someone with availability that works for our schedules. I finally found someone and we have an appointment this Friday. Unfortunately, DH is temporarily on this insane working schedule (it's all legitimate), and he's on it until the emergency situation that precipitated it is over (which is currently a huge unknown). So, I may have to go to our first session alone. He says he is committed to going to MC with me. He even said he's interested in seeing his own IC so that he can work on the things that are wrong inside of him that caused him do this awful thing, and to deal with the unhappiness that he's been feeling for a while (a lot of which stems, IMO, from a lot of really difficult things we've been dealing with since shortly after our wedding, including my dad's suicide; a very traumatic/stressful/high profile incident he was involved in at work; my being laid off two weeks after that incident; us both being home together for 9 months while I searched for work and he was on paid leave; the trial for that incident which took place last month; buying a house together; and him starting to suddenly freak out about his career, education, having kids, etc).
Unfortunately, I did just learn the other day that DH has recently been back in contact with the OW. He did not tell me on his own. I asked him if he had had any contact with her in the last month (I had not been asking, because I was trying not to let suspicion and paranoia get the best of me), and he confessed that she had sent him an email and he replied. My gut tells me that it was more than just one email back and forth -- but I don't have proof. I told him that I appreciated him telling me, but that I was very disappointed that he did not tell me on his own after it happened. I told him that we needed complete honesty and openness in order to truly heal and repair things. I then told him that I needed him to actually write a "No Contact" email to her, which I needed to see before he sent it, and that he had to truly commit to cutting it off for good. I also said that, going forward, he needed to immediately tell me about any contact/attempts, by either him or her, and that such honesty and openness would earn him major brownie points with me. He agreed. I also said I needed him to open up his email accounts to me, and his computer (which he has locked with a password). He agreed -- although he has not done it yet (this conversation happened two days ago). I hate to have to push... but I guess I'm going to have to force him to just do it. I'm sure he probably used this time to delete any incriminating evidence. Honestly though... I'm willing to let that go if he can finally commit to the NC and to full disclosure.
Anyway... I'm sorry this is so long, but it's a month of pent up stuff that I needed to just get out. For those of you who have been there/done that, can you offer any guidance on my situation? Do you think I'm handling things appropriately? Are there things you think I'm not looking at right? Do you think I'm foolish for wanting to stay and fix things, even though this isn't the first time? Any other advice/insight is greatly appreciated!
Me: 29 Him: 30 Married: 2 years Together: 13 years No kids Bomb: 6/4/10 Started MC: 7/16/10
JP, I am going to suggest you offer an abridged version in summary with numberd points or you aren't liekly to get a lot of response.. or at least not as many as you'd lilkey want
It's ok to use your thread as a journal, but if you want help this is a high traffic forum and you need to summarize
Okay... here's a summary of my post. Let me know if it's better if I start a new thread instead...
For those just reading this, full details are in my posts above.
1. One month ago I caught DH in the act of an OEA. DH immediately came after me, crying, expressing remorse and pleading me to stay.
2. The OEA was with a woman who lives 500 miles away. They communicate via chat, web-cam and text messaging. It's been going on since earlier this year (Feb, I think). DH says they have not met in person. However, they have told each other "I love you". Also, when I caught him, she was on cam with her top off.
3. I have decided that I want to stay and try to fix this. DH says he wants the same.
4. DH is having a very hard time letting OW go. At first he agreed to NC, and we delivered that message to OW together, on the phone. The next day he immediately confessed that he tried to call her again (but she did not answer). He claims he's "worried about her" (and that he couldn't live with it if she "hurt herself"), and that he "needs closure".
5. We've spent the last month working on us, trying to rebuild our own intimacy. I feel like we've made some progress, and it's been "good" (considering the circumstances). I've also been in IC, working my issues, including some of the things DH has stated he is unhappy about with me. We have agreed to MC, but have had trouble finding someone and setting up an appointment. Our first session is this Friday (unless he is forced to work, which is likely given certain circumstances).
6. Two days ago I asked DH if he had had any contact with OW in the last month. He confessed that she emailed him and he emailed her back. My gut says he may have minimized his confession. I reiterated that he needed to go NC. I asked him to send a NC email, and to open all of his email accounts/computer/etc. to me (previously he only opened his phone, but he almost always has it on him so it's hard to check). He agreed, but has not done it yet.
7. This is not DH's first EA. He had another 10 years ago, when we were still dating. That ended -- but not in a healthy/fully healed way. I couldn't let it go, and he took 5 years to finally go completely NC with her. Forgot to mention above, but he said he was not truly remorseful after the first time, but that he is deeply remorseful now.
Last edited by justpeachy; 07/07/1006:20 PM.
Me: 29 Him: 30 Married: 2 years Together: 13 years No kids Bomb: 6/4/10 Started MC: 7/16/10
If he hasn't offered you FULL DISCOSURE of ALL HIS COMMUNICATION avenues to OW you need to assume he's communicating with her
WHen you ask him for transparency you tell him NOW... not "when I get around to it.."
This is an ADDICTION my dear, its not like in teh movies... This is REAL
You need to CHANGE your phone number, email etc... EVERYTHING that he might use to contact her... asking HIM to send her a NC email is pointless...
You can't go through HIM.. YOU need to get INTO the communication line in order to clean it up
If he goes onto teh computer you go sit beside him.. You just sit there and read a book or something... If he complains you tell him he LOST his right to trust when he CHEATED
Tell him he either commits to SHARED communication with you or you will not participate in this marriage anymore.. PERIOD
If he insists on hiding or makes ANY fuss about sharing everything at ALL TIMES ... Then you have a serious problem on your hands... He's playing games with you and NOT offering you a real commitment
You can't just ask him to share info and ask him to email her a NC letter... YOU need to get INVOVLED and STAY INVOLVED UNTIL... until YOU feel SAFE... at LEAST three to six months I would say...
THen you can slow down on the monitoring his activity
He also needs to REDUCE his PC use and stay OFF sites that promote online affairs : facebook, second life, etc
These are like online singles bars.. Tell him to STAY OFF of them... and configure your internet router to BLOCK them as well
Get INVOLVED.. you are being WAY TOO PASSIVE about this and it is JUST going to ESCALATE
Your HUSBAND is addicted now and he's just giving you escuses.. " i don't want her to hurt herself?" Please.. Is that why her top was off? Because she didn't want to HURT herself?
Just tell him NO you will not accept that and WAIT for him to comply... He sounds like he wants to work iwth you.. but you NEED to play HARD ball here or he will escalate this into a PA...
He claims he's "worried about her" (and that he couldn't live with it if she "hurt herself"), and that he "needs closure".
Agree with Puppy here. The only closure one gets is by letting go and moving on. Period. Contacting or trying to contact somebody is a way to avoid closure. This is pure emotional poop.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
Okay. I just got off the phone with him. I told him that I needed him to take care of the transparency stuff TODAY. I had mentioned it to him again last night, while we were at home. And I guess I hoped he would take care of it on his own as a gesture that he's committed to doing the right thing.
I did look through his phone this morning, in front of him, and he didn't protest. He only asked "what are you looking for", and I just said "anything that looks suspicious".
When I just talked to him, he started to get annoyed at first, saying he "hadn't had time to do it yet". But since he has this afternoon off from work, I said I expected that it would be done today. I told him he needs to open up every method of communication he's had with her or that she could contact him at.
So... assuming this gets done, what do I do? I am not a fan of snooping. I'm thinking I'd prefer to do random checks, right in front of him. What's the best way of handling this new access, and what should I watch out for going forward?
Me: 29 Him: 30 Married: 2 years Together: 13 years No kids Bomb: 6/4/10 Started MC: 7/16/10
1. First, you aren't "snooping".. you are PROTECTING your MARRIAGE
2. He isnt' there to ask you questions... He is there to WATCH you protect the marriage... something HE should be THANKING you for
3. What on earth are you waiting for him for? You crack open MS Excel and you make a LIST... all the accounts he has for everytyhign.. you put the username and the password in it
Once you are done you ask him to confirm the list and if there is ANYTHIGN you have missed that may enter the marriage and the home that any PREDATOR to teh marriage may use to threaten the SAFETY of the HOME you two have together
THIS is how you WORD this stuff.. .its not snooping.. and that wans't his GIRLFRIEND... SHe's a predator to the marriage and YOU are PROTECTING yourself, your home, your marrige and HIM as well
Don't do this in front of him... He just needs to know that his life is SHARED
I forgot one thing JP... YOU do the SAME THING
You put a spreassheet together with all your accounts and the userid and password (minus this one)
YOu tell him tehre is NOTHING omitted from there that is harmful to the home...
He does NOT need to include all his online shopping accounts etc... communication channels only
You REMOVE the web cam from his PC if it is removable... YOu get him to clean up all the crap on his pc he might use to contact her.. any pics of her or email.. ERRASE her from teh HOME
And his comments about not having time yet is an EXCUSE ... his MARRIAGE is at threat here... EERYTHING is lower priority than that...
You two are an OPEN BOOK to each other... NO SECRETS...
SECRETS are marriage CANCER... TELL him that
Its ok to have a LIFE outside each other, but NOTHING is held back that is a THERAT to the HOME or MARRIAGE
If an x girlfirend emails him.. HE FORWARDS that to you and does NOT respond until you BOTH discuss it... for example
