ssmguy, he was telling me by saying he needed to have sex and trying to touch me all the time but I misunderstood and kept thinking it was about the sex and that he wasn't listening to me when I was trying to tell him I was too tired and unhappy with myself to feel sexual. What I fail to understand and I feel he failed to fully explain was that it was about more than that it was about feeling like a couple, loving each other and showing that love physically. I was an idiot but I thought I was doing as much as I could and your right I ignored things.
Unfortunately I can understand the "feeling sexual harassed" part, I know it doesn't make sense but you start to feel like ever single touch is a request for sex and it just becomes overwhelming - you don't see that you need the closeness and the touching and the sex, it's only being able to see it from the narrow point of view that you have in your head.
I guess what I meant when I said I wished he hadn't gone that far wasn't right, what I meant is that I wish he'd gone as far a making a stand before he emotional cut himself off. I find that now on the other side of this I wish a great many things had been different.
I'm not sure how I'd have felt about the girlfriend with benefits thing. I think it may have had the same affect as the "I don't want you anymore and I'm thinking of leaving" speech had in making me realize what a mess our relationship was in, because I do love him and want him and I think the only way I could have been okay with the girlfriend thing would be if they way I was acting was actually really the way I felt and I was done with him, if that makes sense? So yes if the sex really didn't matter to me and I wasn't in love with him anymore then I think I would maybe have agreed to the girlfriend thing. Sadly there are times now when I think if he suggested it as the only way he'd stay I might be able to live with rather than losing him completely.
I don't think you need to be more clear about wanting sex... we get that much I think, but I think we fail to see how important it is for both partners and to see how it makes you feel so "neutered" as you put it. I understand your need to rant it must be truly frustrating to stand by and feel that you've tried everything to have your partner understand and have them throw it back in your face. Sometimes feel like just making a blanket apology for the entire married refusing to have sex female population.
Young at heart, yes I agree that I wasn't vigilant, I suppose I felt secure and got so wrapped in other things that I took my husbands love and support for granted and stop bothering to give anything in return. It wasn't because I didn't love him, I just placed him way down on my priorities list, which was were I put my own needs as well.
I'm not sure if my husband has given up completely. At the moment it seems that we stand no chance of getting back from where we are, I want to try, not to save things but to build something we'd both be happy with but he's not sure if his feelings for me will ever come back. He's very angry, feels unloved, and is unable to imagine going forward at this point. He hasn't left, we have to small children (6 and 4) and he says he doesn't know how he'll feel in the future. I can see that maybe starting over would be easier but I hope we can find a spark and build something better now I see things more clearly. Who knows what will happen...
bpickle, I think there is still hope for your marriage. Don't let old baggage trip you up. It seems like such a waste if the only advantage of a new partner is simply that you don't share old baggage with that new person, even if that new person might have had all the same problems with another partner. So, yes, how can you erase the baggage and start over?
Feelings can change, and old resentments tend to diminish over time as long as they aren't freshly replenished.
bpickle, you sound very sympathetic. I can't imagine that your husband wouldn't respond to consistent appreciation and sexual availability from you, while you let him know what you need in a way that doesn't feel like he's being criticized. Perhaps by emphasizing how much you liked the time he did something that you really did appreciate and made you feel more connected in a way that you need to feel sexual.
I'm sure that you've heard that in a good marriage, there is at least 4 expressions of praise for every criticism. It really has to be a ratio such that you feel you are much more likely to hear something nice from your spouse than something negative. That makes you want to hear and talk to your spouse.
What I really am here to say is that, it took him saying he didn't want me anymore to wake me up and realize how unhappy I was with how thing were also. I wish he'd said something before he gave up I know you think she should know or that you've told her how you feel but she may not really understand and if you wait until you've moved on in your head, walk out leave her emotional without actually telling and making sure she knows how serious it is, you aren't giving her a chance to change.
Like you say, I'm sure it's not a hearing problem, but an understanding problem. I've told my wife about the seriousness of the problem until I was blue in the face, even to the point where she said I was just obsessed with it and I needed to back off. At one point, she even said I was sexually harrassing her. That was the first time I'd heard that phrase applied to a marriage!
bpickle, you say it took your husband saying he didn't want you anymore for you to "wake up". Then why do you wish he'd said something before? Didn't he say anything at all? You seem to be saying you were so wrapped up in everything else that you ignored it. So what choice did he have then but to do what he did? You're basically saying that it took what he finally did to wake you up, and then you complain that he went that far to make the point to you.
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I think here is still hope you just need to break though the wall she has up and the way you are going about it now isn't working so try something different because I bet she still loves you and just isn't seeing things straight. If you were to walk out tomorrow she'd be devastated and shocked.
bpickle, I'm curious to know how you'd have felt and reacted if instead of announcing his departure, he said he's planning to stay with you and that he was OK with not having sex as long as you didn't want it, but he would like to have a girlfriend "with benefits", who he would occasionally spend an afternoon or evening with. And assume he was experienced enough with people and relationships that you knew he could find a girlfriend who was happy with that arrangement because she was in a similar situation herself. I'm not asking for anyone's moral comments on that arrangement, because I already know what most people would say about it. I'm asking, what would your response have been? I think it's a fair question because you're being given a choice, and he's being above-board about it.
If sex did not matter to you, then why would it matter to you if he had sex with someone else? That's really my question. I've asked other women the same question, and I'm not sure I really ever "get" the answers they come up with. It seems like what they really want is for their guy to not ever have sex with anybody. They want their husbands to be neutered eunuchs who just help around the house. Well, they had those in the ancient harems. But that was then and this is now. Get with the modern times, ladies, where all the men are now like the kings who had the harems. We men are all intact and we want sex!!! How can I be any more clear!
Thanks for letting me rant! It felt good to say that to someone other than my wife! Don't take it personally. It's just an expression of my own frustration! ;-)
Some parts of society are attempting to put things back this way. Just because you are denied sex does not mean they aren't having it.
...I'm not sure if my husband has given up completely. At the moment it seems that we stand no chance of getting back from where we are, I want to try, not to save things but to build something we'd both be happy with but he's not sure if his feelings for me will ever come back.
....He's very angry, feels unloved, and is unable to imagine going forward at this point. He hasn't left, we have to small children (6 and 4) and he says he doesn't know how he'll feel in the future....
I think that SSMguy has given you some good suggestions.
MWD's book the Sex Starved Marriage has a number of good suggestions and reading it and asking your husband to read it and discuss it could help.
Another couple books I would suggest are Chapman's the Five Languages of Love. It is really important that you find out what your husbands languages of love are and that you do things that make him feel loved in "his" languages of love and not yours. That is if he needs acts of service to feel loved, perform acts of service. If he needs words of affirmation to feel loved, praish him for what he does well. If he needs touch, make sure he gets the touching he needs. If his primary language of love is gifts, give him ocasional and special gifts. If his primary language of love is quality time, make sure that even with small children that you spend some adult time with your husband talking and connecting emotionally.
Also, I would suggest that since you have a young family that you get yourself a subscription to Red Book Magazine. It is sort of like Cosmopolitan for the woman who has a husband and family and wants to keep them happy along with her own happiness. Even my 60-year old wife has come to enjoy that magazine when it arrives each month with ideas on relationships and combining the roles of mother/wife/homemaker/lover/independent person.
To help find the spark and rebuild your relationship you might also want to read John Gottmans the Seven Principals for Making Marriage Work. It has a lot of great ideas in it about what is both important in a relationship and how to not be destructive, as well as how to do things that bring couples together as opposed to doing things that add distance.
I am a big advocate of board certified sex theapists and if you are in a sex starved marriage because your husband has emotionally/physically withdrawn from you, they would be appropriate. Sex can be the glue that helps cement basically good relationships together. You might if in a "do it your self role," try asking him about some of the best sexual experiences that he has had with you and then try to recreate-relive some of them. It is a way of skipping over recent rejection to focus on a past closeness that may allow him to let go of the pain for a moment.
Sexual rejection (whether real or imagined) hurts at such a basic primal level. Actually "hurt" is much to mild a word. I can speak from personal experience, that it took me a long time (not as long as my wife) before I forgave her and before I was willing to expose myself to her being able to emotionally hurt me (through sexual rejection). If you are consistent in your love for your spouse, if they feel loved, and if they want to be in a loving relationship with you (which he once did and he has two children who need you as a couple, and you provide him with what he needs, he will probably fall in love with you once again, but on a deeper level.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Sexual rejection is alot of pain. I heard its the same in women too. Over time consistent sexual and emotional rejection can result in ED, lowered erection power, lowered libido and reduced self confidence and esteem.
I can speak from personal experience that it results in anger, and makes a man wonder if he is desirable as a man to any woman. I honestly can understand (but not condone) why many men have affairs. I came to the point where the pain of rejection exceeded any potential hope for happiness or emotional closeness. What I wanted most was of no further iterest to me.
While I needed sex, I also needed to be touched and to be felt like I was worth being loved. But most of all I wanted to avoid the pain of rejection, emotional humiliation and the anger that followed.
However, to me one of my turning points was Sue Johnson's book, Hold me Tight, that allowed me to realize that being touched, and being loved were things that were natural and a part of the human experience. That helped me look at myself differently. Then Glover's No More Mr Nice Guy and working on getting a life really helped me emotionally and to realize that I had to live life to make myself happy.
The book SSM and the Five Languages of love helped me figure out my situation. The book by John Gottman on the seven principals of a happy marriage helped me with some tools to work on my relationship.
Again as you said, "Sexual rejection is a lot of pain." I think that you are right in that it can cause real physical problems as well.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
the other night she nudged me in bed asking if i wanted to fool around, but i had to make it a quickie.
when i took care of everything (check on kids/close their door and mine, as well, and got the lube out), i noticed that i wasn't so hard, and of course i started to think about it, and that played with my mind, but i didn't let it get to me, and i wound up lasting longer than a quickie!
we went to a friend's house for the fourth of july, and when we got back around 11, she said that she would've fooled around again, but she was having very bad cramps from something she ate. i was fine with that; no problem. we went to sleep. no angst.
i hinted about fooling around last night, but she said she was too tired from the sun.
am i being selfish now? it sounds like it, but i know why: we are back to the same old routine. she got her monthly maintenance, and i now won't have sex again for another month.
last night wasn't good; tonight is no good because her sister is sleeping over; then something else will creep in, and before you know it, it's august!
morning sex never happens, because she needs to just relax in bed; spontaneous sex never happens because of the kids, the sunlight, it's too early in the day, etc.; nighttime is 50/50 because of fatigue and whatever aggravation develops right before bedtime.
this is where the frustration lies, and this has been pretty much the pattern for years.
no compromise, no solution, and as long as i don't complain about her lack of libido and romantic love for me, she's happy "as a pig in @#!$!" for her,the world is wonderful.
the other night she nudged me in bed asking if i wanted to fool around, but i had to make it a quickie.
when i took care of everything (check on kids/close their door and mine, as well, and got the lube out), i noticed that i wasn't so hard, and of course i started to think about it, and that played with my mind, but i didn't let it get to me, and i wound up lasting longer than a quickie!
we went to a friend's house for the fourth of july, and when we got back around 11, she said that she would've fooled around again, but she was having very bad cramps from something she ate. i was fine with that; no problem. we went to sleep. no angst.
i hinted about fooling around last night, but she said she was too tired from the sun.
am i being selfish now? it sounds like it, but i know why: we are back to the same old routine. she got her monthly maintenance, and i now won't have sex again for another month.
last night wasn't good; tonight is no good because her sister is sleeping over; then something else will creep in, and before you know it, it's august!
morning sex never happens, because she needs to just relax in bed; spontaneous sex never happens because of the kids, the sunlight, it's too early in the day, etc.; nighttime is 50/50 because of fatigue and whatever aggravation develops right before bedtime.
this is where the frustration lies, and this has been pretty much the pattern for years.
no compromise, no solution, and as long as i don't complain about her lack of libido and romantic love for me, she's happy "as a pig in @#!$!" for her,the world is wonderful.
That pig in $hit may be her boinking another guy when ever the hell he feels like it.
