And here I am .... H's MLC ....

[lala09]

Truegritter: If explaining our changes if off the table (and I understand why it wouldn't be a good thing to do), if our H/W asks about our change of heart or 180, then what is the best way to explain it?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Agree with Truegritter. It sounds too sanctimonious (altho we here know it is sincere, and real), and preachy.

Puppy

[Truegritter]

Truegritter: If explaining our changes if off the table (and I understand why it wouldn't be a good thing to do), if our H/W asks about our change of heart or 180, then what is the best way to explain it?

Shortly and sweetly...

Me? My W told me she needed space so I always say when confronted about my detachment...

"I am trying to be patient and give you space."

Meanwhile live your life for YOU.

They WILL notice the change even if they do not say anything.

Remember this though, the reason we guide you to no R talk is you are on this journey and you are not the change you want to be ....

Yet.

So

Everytime you open your mouth you confirm that you are the person they left and don't want to be with now.


There is time for all things under heaven...

When you become whole, and THAT person shows up, then...

...it is a whole new ballgame.

Maybe A whole new M can begin.

[MHL]

Everytime you open your mouth you confirm that you are the person they left and don't want to be with now.

So true, Grit....sooo true.

You know if you stop and think about it the WAS/MLCer already has mastered what we preach to each other...."Believe nothing they say".

You say "I have changed" they hear "come back and put up with the same ole sh!t"

You say "I hope that you grow or learn about yourself" they hear or feel "I want to control you".

[MHL]

What a view from up here!

I was warned by J3B, so I will pass it along as I had a gentle reminder. Beware of feeling superior to your H, I think it is a natural tendency given our journey of self discovery. Our MLCer spouses are on a journey of self discovery also, difference is that their path can be more destructive but they are learning also.

…….and I will explain my positon to him if he asks but this is non-negotiable for me at this point. I am not in love with the man H is. The old me loved me the old him, and fear and insecurity were the ties that bound for a long time ... but no more.

I started reading “How to improve your marriage without talking about it”, so I understand what you are saying here. I am only 35 pages in but if the book ends anything like the title implies…..telling him these things is not going to help. Grit is right again…..tell us not your H.

This is basically what I want to say to H when we are at the MC next week ...

I know you want to say something to your H in hopes that he will wake up and take his head out of his ass. I made this mistake back in January and it totally backfired on me. If you go into that MC session and say these things you will feel better momentarily but then you will “expect” your H to start to take to heart the things you said and start changing or that he will go “Wow she has grown so much, WTF was I thinking”. When he doesn’t do these things you will be in a bad place and you will realize that it was a big step backwards for your R with your H and more importantly a step backwards for you.

PEI, sorry this is turning into a 2x4, but if you have an opportunity to get your H into MC don’t you want it to be an opportunity for him to share his feelings in a “safe” environment? This is an opportunity to learn something about him and to validate his feelings. He is not in a place to hear, nor care about where you are at on your journey or your feelings. If he really cared he would not be doing the things he is doing, remember it is all about him.

I know you thought about what you wrote and you genuinely feel them and as a friend I applaud you and I also am glad you are growing as an individual who is self aware of who she is at her core. This is such a big step in your life and it is natural to want to share it with the person that you chose to be your life partner so no one is going to fault you for wanting to do that. Right now he is not ready to hear these things.

Keep moving forward.

[PEI]

Thanks Grit...

PEI

This all GREAT stuff for YOU.

My first take on it to write this down so you don't forget this moment.

Yep, that's why it's here

I would NOT say this H.

That is if you still hold hope for any R.

There is a very strong tendency to tell spouse of your new found changes and revelations. (I know this too)

H is not in a place to understand or hear this.

If anything I think it will fuel resentment and there is already enough fuel for that fire provided by your M. Yes?

He is not ready to hear this from you.

My bad. I should have highlighted the WANT to say to H ... someday perhaps, in our future when he's ready, I would like for him to hear my sincere gratitude. In regards to the resentment ... I have none. I will struggle with grief and anger by times as I finish my journey towards healing, but any resentment that exists is his. And since I have no control over any of that .... well, y'all know the drill ....

These changes are for you.

Yes they are. I really don't have any interest in telling him about my changes because I want him to see or believe them ... I just want, someday, to let him know that this process was good for me, healed me, changed me ... fueled growth that makes me a better woman, mom, friend and someday ... wife.

If anything this means you just detach more and live your life like he isn't coming back. No need to inform him of this either.

Tell him you forgive him if and when he asks for it.

H isn't coming back. The man he is/was is no longer welcome in my life as my H. I do now love him unconditionally and hope that he finds happiness and finds the strength to do the mirror work, and you are right ... there is no point to telling him. I'm so excited about what life has in store for me, I am just going to go out and live it Forgiveness is something he will have to give himself. I've already forgiven him, but I've done it for me.

Unless you are truly done...

With that marriage, with the man he is ... yes, I am truly done. I have discovered a strength in me that will require a strong partner. A partner who is real and open and honest. A partner who won't lose himself instead of challenging me. I would rather stand alone than in front of, or behind, a 'partner' ... next time I will stand beside someone ... as teammates ... two individuals with common goals and interests ...

I guess the politically correct, DB thing to say at this point would be that maybe H could be that man, someday in the future, and I won't deny that in this great big universe anything can happen. Honestly though, I just don't think he possesses that kind of strength, that we would ever truly compliment each other the way partners should. It is what it is

There is that old thing we say:

You can't talk yourself out of something you acted your way into.

Live your changes...for you.

Amen brotha!

PEI

[ericmsant2]

Pei –
I just caught up on your thread….and the first thing that pops out at me is WOW I missed the fun this Friday.

Before I respond to your latest updated I wanted to respond to Friday’s post.

I'm guessin' he's nothing like Eric - never seen him in a tutu, that's for sure!

I recently washed all of my tutu’s and they shrunk so I need to pick up a few new ones. Once I do this I will post the pics on the alt. LMAO!

Now I know why some choose an arrow

I am not touching this one….Oh….F it….”Arrow”…comm’on girl…you need to go triangle…like Bermuda triangle…where planes get pulled in. Okay…I better stop.

Jeep top or his top??? Sounds a little risque if you ask me!

FTR - It was the jeep top down – I was however, wearing a very tight pink shirt with the nipple section cut out. You know…it part of the journey of finding my sensitive side. Now picture that. BTW…does the beaver shirt come with nip cut outs?

Sorry…to hijack Pei…but hey… Grit…Yo….GRIT…

You either heart beaver or you don't.

Contrary to popular belief on these boards…I do heart beaver! ROLFLMAO!!!

It's been so long for me there would have to be those little blue lights on there
and
I'd have to get radio'd in by the control tower.
I might be coming in a little hot too...

Dude I can relate…so here is some advice…navigate slowly…listen to the control tower (assuming they can provide direction) and then pull back HARD and slow…you should gain elevation and then land softly..This will help with the coming in a little too hot. Just sayin….

Hey isn't there one called the poodle cut?

Yes…there is one. And since you guys know that I have a golden doodle…I can tell you the poodle cut tends to be a little “bushy” – not sure you want that.

Okay PEI…back to your post.

fear and insecurity were the ties that bound for a long time

Squashing the fear and killing the insecurity is easier said then done. Just sayin….Qften they appear to be gone but can rear there ugly head again if not completely dealt with. (and I real wonder if they ever are completely gone).

In terms of the things you want to say to H…DON’t. He is not ready and may never be ready. LIVE THEM! LIVE THEM TO THE FULLEST! Actions will speak louder than words….Telling him IMO is expecting a response, it is “hoping” he will see it and snap out of it. He will take it as controling and manipulative, which you do not want. Will he snap out of this...He may, he may not. He will only do this when he wants to – not when you want it.

What GRIT and Missher posted is spot on.

Sweetie...these steps you are taking..they are about you and your journey and you know that. IMO - you are probably struggling with....how will you REALLY know that you are living it? Well at some point..none of what I say, Grit says, Missher says will matter. You will just know. Don’t rush it…just live it slowly…day by day…

God Bless
Eric

[PEI]

Thanks missher ....

What a view from up here!

I was warned by J3B, so I will pass it along as I had a gentle reminder. Beware of feeling superior to your H, I think it is a natural tendency given our journey of self discovery. Our MLCer spouses are on a journey of self discovery also, difference is that their path can be more destructive but they are learning also.

Actually it has nothing to do with superiority (although I can see why it came across that way) ... it was a reference to the Miley Cyrus song "the climb" ...

...and I will explain my positon to him if he asks but this is non-negotiable for me at this point. I am not in love with the man H is. The old me loved me the old him, and fear and insecurity were the ties that bound for a long time ... but no more.

I started reading “How to improve your marriage without talking about it”, so I understand what you are saying here. I am only 35 pages in but if the book ends anything like the title implies…..telling him these things is not going to help. Grit is right again…..tell us not your H.

I LOVE this book ... and I think I clarified the whole WANT to say, vs WILL say in my response to Grit ...

This is basically what I want to say to H when we are at the MC next week ...

I know you want to say something to your H in hopes that he will wake up and take his head out of his ass. I made this mistake back in January and it totally backfired on me. If you go into that MC session and say these things you will feel better momentarily but then you will “expect” your H to start to take to heart the things you said and start changing or that he will go “Wow she has grown so much, WTF was I thinking”. When he doesn’t do these things you will be in a bad place and you will realize that it was a big step backwards for your R with your H and more importantly a step backwards for you.

Actually, missher, at this point I honestly have no interest in saying something to help him take his head out of his ass It's his ass he can leave his head there as long as he likes I really just want to convey, and yes, I'll do this through my actions instead of my words, that I have "dropped the rope" ... I'm moving forward for me ... this is no longer about him for me ...

PEI, sorry this is turning into a 2x4, but if you have an opportunity to get your H into MC don’t you want it to be an opportunity for him to share his feelings in a “safe” environment? This is an opportunity to learn something about him and to validate his feelings. He is not in a place to hear, nor care about where you are at on your journey or your feelings. If he really cared he would not be doing the things he is doing, remember it is all about him.

Thanks again missher, I actually want to use this appointment as a chance to have a mediator for what I expect could me a contensious conversation about me moving back to the house and him finally getting what he said he wanted all along ... his independance. I expect he'll get angry and accuse me of trying to control his life again, blah, blah, blah ... I'm not. I am ready to stop walking on eggshells and take back control of MY life. I am ready to live and breathe ... I feel like I was holding my breath for months ....

I know you thought about what you wrote and you genuinely feel them and as a friend I applaud you and I also am glad you are growing as an individual who is self aware of who she is at her core. This is such a big step in your life and it is natural to want to share it with the person that you chose to be your life partner so no one is going to fault you for wanting to do that. Right now he is not ready to hear these things.

I guess I want to share it with him so he can feel free ... not because I want a pat on the back or recognition for what I've accomplished - I know how far I've come AND how far I still have to go ... growth is now a life long journey for me ...

I know he's not in a place to hear it ...

Keep moving forward.

You betcha!

Peace
PEI

[PEI]

Eric ... I'm just gonna leave it alone ... just sayin' ... ok, maybe not completely alone .... Bermuda triangle??? LMAO!

Sweetie...these steps you are taking..they are about you and your journey and you know that. IMO - you are probably struggling with....how will you REALLY know that you are living it? Well at some point..none of what I say, Grit says, Missher says will matter. You will just know. Don’t rush it…just live it slowly…day by day…

You know ... I don't feel like I'm struggling with "am I really living it" ... I have so much PEACE inside me right now ... what I do struggle with is having him GET it - and by 'it' I mean 'me being done'. And I know I can't control that so I'm letting it go ...

Well at some point..none of what I say, Grit says, Missher says will matter.

ummmm ... oh I'm sorry, did I give the impression that it did??? LOL ...

In all seriousness ... thank you. All of you. Reading your 2x4's, concern and questions has really helped me clarify ... that's why I love these boards. There is no easy out here. There is no hiding from the truth, not if you really want it. And I do. I am ready to be real, to be true, to be free ...

I luv you guys ... just sayin' ...

Peace
PEI

[Truegritter]

but any resentment that exists is his. And since I have no control over any of that

I meant his not yours...

I agree with most of your assessments PEI...

I applaud your growth

You really have done a remarkable job understanding what this is and putting these ideas to work in your life.

A couple of observations:

In the stages of LBS.

There is a stage called "Temptation in the face of complete rejection."

This is where you have been working so hard on this and you are not seeing results and then are tempted to chuck it.

Let me say I am not trying to convince you what to do with your M. It is your choice and only you can ultimately decide what is right for you.

If your H is MLC it WILL take a long time for you to see anything you begin to like.

As Mach said to me, just think how much effort and time it took for you to come to the place you are at now...

AND

You had this place...and these wise people to guide you...

Is H somebody you want to be with right now?

No?

Three months ago were you somebody you would want to be with?

Are you saying you want to get a D?

Or

Are you saying you are going to live your life?...

Because that is what you should be doing regardless.

These things did not happen overnight and they will not be rectified or reconciled overnight.

Just something to think about...

and only my humble opinion.