what exactly constitutes a ssm again? how is it clearly defined?
sex once a month? no sexual urges from spouse at all? never being able to discuss sex in a serious or joking tone? having one's spouse feel that sex, in general, is dirty? always having a spouse push you away whenever you want to make-out?
Any of those qualifies. A starving man might still get food, it's just that he doesn't get enough. That makes it starved. Otherwise, it would simply be called a celibate marriage. A priest is not living up to his vow of celibacy if he has sex "only" once a month or "only" once a year. He might be sex-starved in those cases, but he would not be celibate.
the display of public affection is like a slap in the face knowing that it's all a facade.
Very familiar. Yes. More affection in public than in private, because she knows that in public, it can't lead to anything further. She feels "safe" in that situation.
I haven't read everything you've posted, so let me ask, is there any possibility that your wife has any sexual abuse in her history?
i have been giving her all types of massages (foot/back/leg), and i do it knowing that it will not lead to sex, and that it does not lead into a love bank unfortunately. it's all of these touches, all of this touching that never leads to sex, and i need and want to be touched.
Been there, done that, verbatim! Foot, back, and leg are all "safe" areas. I gave my wife 100's of massages, and not once did it lead to anything more, not even a raincheck.
I've read through your thread here and I've been through virtually all the same drama. The difficulty you have is that you are fighting a battle on her terms. It takes a lot of your energy as you initiate all kinds of things while she just passively ignores them or simply waves them by or bats them out of the way. I came to a point where I took a different approach, which may or may not work for you or be what you are willing to do.
Like you, I'm not willing to just walk out of the marriage with my kids and lots of other things about our marriage that work very well. But what I did at one point is to indicate that I had, at least in sexual terms, "given up" on the marriage, and that it was now her responsibility to do something about it, but only if she wanted. That way, she'd have a lot of time to think about it. What I told her is, would it be OK if I had a girlfriend? She said no. I replied, well, if YOU don't want to be my girlfriend, then why would you mind if I had another girlfriend, or a friend with benefits, while we still spent time together doing all the other things we still enjoy? Is it simply that you don't want me to have sex with anybody?? You are still my first choice as a lover, and you always will be, but you're completely unavailable to me.
See, now the equation changes a little bit because previously, she could thwart all your actions by just being passive. But now she can't. Because if you go out and make some other friends with benefits, she can't thwart that by just being passive.
Another benefit to this is that you will find out if your wife is the kind of person who perks up when there is competition. A lot of people are like that. It's unfortunate to have to resort to this leverage in a marriage, but if it's the last resort, why not? I have seen cases where somebody gets very sexually attentive with their mate only when real competition appears to be popping up.
And see, unlike the situation with moving out, you can do the friends with benefits thing a step at a time, and she won't actually know if you're actually doing anything or not. As long as you stay honest about the fact that the moment she says she wants you exclusively in a sexual way, you are willing to say YES at the drop of a hat. In fact, a female friend of mine even suggested that I should just go to the library and spend a couple of hours there every other night, just to make my wife wonder about what's going on, and if she cared, she might take the initiative in some way.
I just think you've got to get past all this drama with your wife by doing something else which is not directed towards her. I'm sure my situation isn't exactly like yours, so your mileage may vary.
i have been giving her all types of massages (foot/back/leg), and i do it knowing that it will not lead to sex, and that it does not lead into a love bank unfortunately. it's all of these touches, all of this touching that never leads to sex, and i need and want to be touched.
Been there, done that, verbatim! Foot, back, and leg are all "safe" areas. I gave my wife 100's of massages, and not once did it lead to anything more, not even a raincheck.
I've read through your thread here and I've been through virtually all the same drama. The difficulty you have is that you are fighting a battle on her terms. It takes a lot of your energy as you initiate all kinds of things while she just passively ignores them or simply waves them by or bats them out of the way. I came to a point where I took a different approach, which may or may not work for you or be what you are willing to do.
Like you, I'm not willing to just walk out of the marriage with my kids and lots of other things about our marriage that work very well. But what I did at one point is to indicate that I had, at least in sexual terms, "given up" on the marriage, and that it was now her responsibility to do something about it, but only if she wanted. That way, she'd have a lot of time to think about it. What I told her is, would it be OK if I had a girlfriend? She said no. I replied, well, if YOU don't want to be my girlfriend, then why would you mind if I had another girlfriend, or a friend with benefits, while we still spent time together doing all the other things we still enjoy? Is it simply that you don't want me to have sex with anybody?? You are still my first choice as a lover, and you always will be, but you're completely unavailable to me.
See, now the equation changes a little bit because previously, she could thwart all your actions by just being passive. But now she can't. Because if you go out and make some other friends with benefits, she can't thwart that by just being passive.
Another benefit to this is that you will find out if your wife is the kind of person who perks up when there is competition. A lot of people are like that. It's unfortunate to have to resort to this leverage in a marriage, but if it's the last resort, why not? I have seen cases where somebody gets very sexually attentive with their mate only when real competition appears to be popping up.
And see, unlike the situation with moving out, you can do the friends with benefits thing a step at a time, and she won't actually know if you're actually doing anything or not. As long as you stay honest about the fact that the moment she says she wants you exclusively in a sexual way, you are willing to say YES at the drop of a hat. In fact, a female friend of mine even suggested that I should just go to the library and spend a couple of hours there every other night, just to make my wife wonder about what's going on, and if she cared, she might take the initiative in some way.
I just think you've got to get past all this drama with your wife by doing something else which is not directed towards her. I'm sure my situation isn't exactly like yours, so your mileage may vary.
What if you found you had to always have "somone in the wings" for your wife to be interested? That you did the physical act of cheating several times per year and for you it didn't mean anything. If this is what it took for your wife to be interested in you and her marriage is it that bad? Your probably going to be gone anyway, and on the way out... Does it matter?
Anyway on those massages, you can always get the inner thighs.
What if you found you had to always have "somone in the wings" for your wife to be interested? That you did the physical act of cheating several times per year and for you it didn't mean anything.
Well, for the purposes of motivating his wife, it's not the actual physical relationship with another woman that matters, it's only the appearance. Presumably, his wife wouldn't be "on location" to verify any physical act, unless we're talking about a very different arrangement that is beyond what I'm suggesting! Since it's only the appearance that's important for motivating his wife, it gives him the option of being faithful at the same time, by just going to the library for few hours in the evenings or after work, etc. And then, if it turns out not to be a good thing, he can honestly come clean and even have the librarian as an alibi.
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If this is what it took for your wife to be interested in you and her marriage is it that bad? Your probably going to be gone anyway, and on the way out... Does it matter?
That's another point entirely, and yes, that is my reasoning too. Though others say you should be careful because if it's really acrimonious, I think you could lose more in certain settlement situations if you were the one who "cheated". Not sure if every jurisdiction/arbitration method views withholding sex as being the same as cheating, though I think it should.
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Anyway on those massages, you can always get the inner thighs.
Well, good luck to him if he wants to try this. I tried that kind of "sneaking up" on my wife and she could see it coming a mile away and put a stop to it, pretty much as though I were some homeless lascivious pervert on the subway trying to cop a feel.
This is my first time posting here, but after reading your post I felt I just had to reply.
I am looking at this from the other side, a few months ago my husband told me he "didn't want me anymore" and our situation sounds a lot like yours in that he pointed out the we don't have sex any more unless I do it just because I feel like I should. I'd didn't want him to touch me, he felt alone unloved, unwanted etc.
He was right and I know this is going to sound silly but I really didn't realize how bad it had got, I know I should have, and that I should have know I was hurting him but I was so wrapped up in everything else I was just treating him like another annoying thing on my list of things that I need to take care of, I was treating sex as a chore, something that he needed but I was to tired or not emotionally in a place to be bothered with.
What I really am here to say is that, it took him saying he didn't want me anymore to wake me up and realize how unhappy I was with how thing were also. I wish he'd said something before he gave up I know you think she should know or that you've told her how you feel but she may not really understand and if you wait until you've moved on in your head, walk out leave her emotional without actually telling and making sure she knows how serious it is, you aren't giving her a chance to change.
Try a different way to tell her, wait until a quiet moment. Don't accuse, don't tell her you love her, tell her how you feel. Give her another chance. Explain how alone you feel, tell her you understand how hard things are for her and that to her it may sound selfish but you need to be touched, tell her you feel your feelings dying. Tell it's not about the sex, tell you'd be happy not to have sex for now but you need touching to feel close to her, tell you've been thinking about leaving, you don't want to but that's how bad you feel.
I think here is still hope you just need to break though the wall she has up and the way you are going about it now isn't working so try something different because I bet she still loves you and just isn't seeing things straight. If you were to walk out tomorrow she'd be devastated and shocked.
Maybe I'm projecting a little as I know that's how I feel on my side of this but please consider trying something different. The women who loves you may still in there somewhere you just have to get her to see you clearly again and realized that your relationship is important to her too.
Yes, hypoactive sexual desire. Unfortunately, there's no easy cure. For a while, my hopes were raised when I saw that the condition had a label. Why then there must be a cure? Well, not so fast, unfortunately.
What I really am here to say is that, it took him saying he didn't want me anymore to wake me up and realize how unhappy I was with how thing were also. I wish he'd said something before he gave up I know you think she should know or that you've told her how you feel but she may not really understand and if you wait until you've moved on in your head, walk out leave her emotional without actually telling and making sure she knows how serious it is, you aren't giving her a chance to change.
Like you say, I'm sure it's not a hearing problem, but an understanding problem. I've told my wife about the seriousness of the problem until I was blue in the face, even to the point where she said I was just obsessed with it and I needed to back off. At one point, she even said I was sexually harrassing her. That was the first time I'd heard that phrase applied to a marriage!
bpickle, you say it took your husband saying he didn't want you anymore for you to "wake up". Then why do you wish he'd said something before? Didn't he say anything at all? You seem to be saying you were so wrapped up in everything else that you ignored it. So what choice did he have then but to do what he did? You're basically saying that it took what he finally did to wake you up, and then you complain that he went that far to make the point to you.
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I think here is still hope you just need to break though the wall she has up and the way you are going about it now isn't working so try something different because I bet she still loves you and just isn't seeing things straight. If you were to walk out tomorrow she'd be devastated and shocked.
bpickle, I'm curious to know how you'd have felt and reacted if instead of announcing his departure, he said he's planning to stay with you and that he was OK with not having sex as long as you didn't want it, but he would like to have a girlfriend "with benefits", who he would occasionally spend an afternoon or evening with. And assume he was experienced enough with people and relationships that you knew he could find a girlfriend who was happy with that arrangement because she was in a similar situation herself. I'm not asking for anyone's moral comments on that arrangement, because I already know what most people would say about it. I'm asking, what would your response have been? I think it's a fair question because you're being given a choice, and he's being above-board about it.
If sex did not matter to you, then why would it matter to you if he had sex with someone else? That's really my question. I've asked other women the same question, and I'm not sure I really ever "get" the answers they come up with. It seems like what they really want is for their guy to not ever have sex with anybody. They want their husbands to be neutered eunuchs who just help around the house. Well, they had those in the ancient harems. But that was then and this is now. Get with the modern times, ladies, where all the men are now like the kings who had the harems. We men are all intact and we want sex!!! How can I be any more clear!
Thanks for letting me rant! It felt good to say that to someone other than my wife! Don't take it personally. It's just an expression of my own frustration! ;-)
This is my first time posting here, but after reading your post I felt I just had to reply.
...He was right and I know this is going to sound silly but I really didn't realize how bad it had got, I know I should have, and that I should have know I was hurting him but I was so wrapped up in everything else I was just treating him like another annoying thing on my list of things that I need to take care of, I was treating sex as a chore, something that he needed but I was to tired or not emotionally in a place to be bothered with.
...Maybe I'm projecting a little as I know that's how I feel on my side of this but please consider trying something different. The women who loves you may still in there somewhere you just have to get her to see you clearly again and realized that your relationship is important to her too.
First thank you for the courage to post your feelings.
I think that what you have said is somewhat like what I think my wife felt at times.
I think that many women just don't understand how important touch and sex is to some men. I also think that many women really don't want to loose their husbands, but are not vigilant or pro-active enough to stop drifting apart from happening.
As you said, many women when they finally "get it" will come around to building the relationship with their husbands.
I am unclear from your post if you husband totally gave up on your relationship and your marriage failed because of it or if you were able (or are still trying) to save things. Either way I hope that you find happiness and what you are really looking for.
Sometimes I think it would be easier with a new partner to just start over with a clean slate and no baggage. Other times I know that saving my troubled marriage was worth it. I am sure that for different couples different rules apply.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
