MLC - standing by my man

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I apologize Dudess.

I admitt to totally blowing right past that original link to gucci's thread.

And for the record, I agree 100% with Gucci in the top of that thread and post. I have to clarify because I usually disagree with him.

The 100% letting go, I actually do not see as being any different than the advice offered here.

AND also to clarify the comment about other boards...not talking about here on DB so I was dissing anyone on DB indirectly.

[Dudess]

All the signs are there that H is in MLC...but how do you know for sure?

His age may be a factor in his affair, but it looks to me like the affair is more the issue for two reasons:

First, he had a previous long affair when he was 16 years younger. Secondly, he comes back to you when OW dumps him. I don't think he would be living on his own and just dating around if she were not in the picture.

Do I answer that phone for him while he is vacationing with OW?
Do I cover for him while he is on his 2-week visits with OW...do I do that without a word to him even if I feel used?

What would you do if he were simply your business partner who had been taking a lot of vacation time lately?

[goodattitudegirl]

FWIW, my take on MLC is that it is a mental health issue. WASs need to go back and deal with unfinished business from childhood. Depressed people don't respond to pressure or jealousy (e.g. LBS dating). They are struggling to get by day-to-day and trying to "feel good". The OW is just a "drug"......literally......a mood elevator, in the same way that a depressed person often self-medicates with alcohol or illegal drugs. Infatuation activates the addiction centers in the brain....dopamine if I recall correctly. There is a lot of medical literature supporting this. If anyone is interested I can cite some references.

Jody (DB coach) always told me to be H/XH's safe place to keep the lines of communication open.

My 2 cents.

GAG

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I love you GAG.

[courageous wife]

Mila

How would you normally handle it if H was on a trip and out of the office? Would you be the one to answer his phone? If not, then ask H to find someone else to do it.

Same with covering for him, would you do that in a normal situation? Pre MLC?

You are feeling used because he is going with OW...if he were going alone, would you handle the business while he was gone?

Business is business right? It is your livelyhood too, right?

I totally get where you are coming from and the hurt you are feeling and I am so glad that the only things bseides kids that H and I have to talk about is just a rental house! I cannot imagine being a business parnter with him.

Hang in ther Mila!

[goodattitudegirl]

Hey Jack......I like you TOO!!!!!

I also have a brain neurochemistry "take" on why cuddling and regular ML is important to maintain a happy relationship if anyone is interested. I had a career in brain research for many years so I've done a lot of reading on the role of the brain in love and relationships since the bomb.

GAG

[SecondChance]

Hi Mila,

So sorry to hear everything you are going through. I haven't posted in a while, but I do read, still working through my own sitch, and looking for 'answers" or ways to deal... here is what I "see" in your sitch today, take what you want, leave the rest!

Re: business, I think you have to look forward and ask yourself what sort of relationship you want to have with WH. Imagine, just for the moment, that he never comes back (relationship-wise). Do you still want to be in business with him? If so, answer the phones, do the emails, and forget about everything else. If not, imagine what you can picture yourself doing in a future without him, I know you have thought about something you used to do. Keep getting that up and going, and in the meantime do the minimum that the business requires. You can only control what you do, not what he/they do.

Re: OW's depression, you said she is on antidepressants, this medication may be necessary if someone is really down, but what it does is tones down the overactive system of someone in need. Basically, it does not return someone to their normal state of being but it does help them cope when they otherwise can't. Why say this? Because if OW is really depressed and can not cope, then your WH will eventually see this. IF you go on with your life and be successful, then your WH will see the difference between depressed OW and vibrant Mila. On the other hand, OW may find a way to cope and come off these antidepressants. Then she will realize what she is currently numb to, which is that she actually left her children. She will have to answer to herself one day for that. Mila, don't worry about OW, you can't control what she does. Go on being healthy and happy you. I know it's next to impossible some days, but you are strong, you can do it!

RE: will WH come back. Of course I don't know! But here's where my thinking is currently at, being on a similar time-line to you. If WH wants strawberry ice-cream, for some reason, and you are vanilla ice-cream, then he is not going to come back. If he wants vanilla ice-cream but got side-tracked, and realizes you are the best vanilla ice-cream, he may come back. Does that make sense? Go back to doing whatever it is that you like best, whether that's maintaining the house and raising your D, or tennis, or visiting friends, or, or, or. If you are happy doing the things you love, and successful at doing those things, that's what you should do!

(((hugs)))

- SCh

[Mila]

Thank you SA, TG, Jack, Dudess, Mach, GAG, CW, SCH

TG - You are right, I still have expectations. I accepted the situation but I still expect my H to be considerate of my feelings and not to be cruel in his actions...I guess this is where I struggle....I get it that he doesn't want to be with me right now and wants to be with OW...I get it....but why not treat me with respect....why give me the receipts for his expenses with OW, why play tennis with her next to my house, why take her to our special place where we were married and ask me to answer his phone while he is gone and on and on. I don't know....if I did what he is doing (and I wouldn't) I would try to protect his feelings...and that's what I don't get...he doesn't care...unlike the person that I knew.

So you are right, I have to accept that fact...and let it all go. When I'm able to do that, that will free me...when I have no expectations whatsoever and won't let anything he does hurt me.

Jack -

You say his convictions have firmed up? Have you been pressuring him? Making him feel like crap? Curious...look deep with that answer

If I'm honest with you and with myself....sometimes I react to what he does....like sending the email about him taking OW to our special place....that must make him feel guilty


I'm working on my plan B...hopefully I can start my old/new career by the end of September...but it will take some months to build up enough income to be independent of him. In the mean time I have no choice but to stay in the business and do both for a while...

The positive is that I can do both jobs while I'm transitioning and the income that I'll eventually have from the new one will supersede what our business was giving us (If I work like a dog lol)

I can do this...just have to become "immune" to anything he does...:)

Dudess -

I don't think your H really believes that he may lose you for good, and maybe that is exactly the wake up call he needs to turn this around

In the past 2 months H is certainly behaving like he is done with me...ever since the OW made the "final" decision and committed to him there seems to be no more wavering or confusion...at least that is visible to me. I think that the previous comebacks only happened because she pulled back...it wasn't his decision and it wasn't what he wanted...he wanted her...now he has her. On the other hand I'm pretty sure that if/when the affair is over he will be back.

I like Gucci's post...that is absolutely right....MLC or WAS....and I did let him go, but not totally...because I still react to the way he treats me....and that is a form of control. So I must grow thicker skin and just let go no matter what he trows at me.

Mach - I did finally made the decision and sent him an email agreeing to answer the phone...so I guess I have decided that I won't let it bother me... Must separate the business from the personal...no choice

GAG -

The OW is just a "drug"......literally......a mood elevator, in the same way that a depressed person often self-medicates with alcohol or illegal drugs. Infatuation activates the addiction centers in the brain....dopamine if I recall correctly

I'm in total agreement...have been reading quite a bit on the subject myself.

CW - you are right I would do all of those things and did them when he was on business trips in the past. I would also have no problem doing it if we were separated and there wasn't OW. It's him being with OW that seems to be my issue....thanks for making me realize that.

SCH - You are right...they are both on antidepressants...so they can't be as happy and content as they appear...also the constant trips they are taking seem to indicate that they need to maintain a level of excitement to feel happy...they are still escaping...there has been no reality yet...she has no job...he is doing the bare minimums in his...she keeps leaving her kids weeks at the time...he is not parenting his D. Lets wait when they actually move in together and have to run a household, pay bills juggle child visitations and pay child support...that's when we will see what that relationship is made out of.

His favorite ice cream is chocolate and I'm the best darn chocolate ice cream he can get...when he gets tired of whatever he is having now LOL

[Twink]

Mila, I think your H does some of the things he does because he can. For instance, giving you the receipts for his activities with OW is beyond disrespectful. I nipped that in the bud early on by telling H that we needed to expand what we were expected to pay from our own accounts to include all recreational activities that included anyone other than immediate family members. Otherwise, he knew that I would be constantly questioning him about what he was doing and with whom, and he didn't want that. Who would? So we increased our personal allowances accordingly, and I now see nearly nothing related to his activities outside of his work, or meals with his family or our Ds. Are you set up with personal accounts in such a way that you could do that? Would your H agree to such an arrangement? If not, is there a way that you can refuse to pay his OW expenses out of your joint accounts?

As for the rest of it, there are things he will do that you really have no control over, as much as they p*ss you off. My H went and rented a big house for a lot of money in an area of town in which I wanted to live, but he had told me I couldn't look for a house there because he wouldn't live there. WTF? He is not supposed to have pets, although that is the only thing I asked him to consider when renting. When our cat died, he wouldn't let me get another one, but after he cared for D's cat while I was gone for 3 weeks, he didn't return him; he did, hoever, return our old, arthritic, allergic, very high maintenance dog. So now I'm the old W living in the old house with the old dog LOL. He is either passive-aggressive with this stuff, or he just plain doesn't think about how it affects me. I choose to believe the latter. Like believing H is MLC instead of WAH, it helps me to detach without anger. Can you believe that your H is so deep in the fog that he can't think of anyone but himself right now? He certainly seems that way to me. Would that shift in thinking help you to not take things so personally?

Mila, I know this is really hard. You were moving along so well, and then !!!! You will find your footing again. I know it. Let H go, and take care of yourself, in every way. Do what you need to do for YOU!

HUGS.

[Dudess]

I still have expectations. I accepted the situation but I still expect my H to be considerate of my feelings and not to be cruel in his actions...

So you are right, I have to accept that fact...and let it all go. When I'm able to do that, that will free me...when I have no expectations whatsoever and won't let anything he does hurt me.

Unless you go to an unhealthy numbness, I doubt that nothing he does will ever hurt you after all the years you two have been together. It is natural and normal that it hurts – badly.

Dudess -

I don't think your H really believes that he may lose you for good, and maybe that is exactly the wake up call he needs to turn this around

In the past 2 months H is certainly behaving like he is done with me...ever since the OW made the "final" decision and committed to him there seems to be no more wavering or confusion...at least that is visible to me. I think that the previous comebacks only happened because she pulled back...it wasn't his decision and it wasn't what he wanted...he wanted her...now he has her. On the other hand I'm pretty sure that if/when the affair is over he will be back.

Right, he came back to you because he has always figured you would still be there if this doesn't work out. You always have, so that's logical on his part. It doesn't sound like he has had to face much in the way of consequences for his infidelities. What do you make of the fact that he hasn’t filed for divorce? Do you think it is because he leaves it to you handle the paperwork, or he is keeping you as a back-up plan or . . . .? What if he suddenly saw the safety net about to be pulled?

I like Gucci's post...that is absolutely right....MLC or WAS....and I did let him go, but not totally...because I still react to the way he treats me....and that is a form of control. So I must grow thicker skin and just let go no matter what he throws at me.

The “letting go” Gucci talks about isn’t about your emotional reactions to him and your desire to reconcile. It is about showing him with your ACTIONS that you are moving on. Gucci emphasizes that you can feel like holding on for dear life and and still let go with your behavior. You do that by affirming that it his choice (however stupid) to be with someone else. The ‘letting go’ is showing him that he can have anybody he wants, but he can’t have you too and you are not waiting to be his back-up plan.

I did finally made the decision and sent him an email agreeing to answer the phone...so I guess I have decided that I won't let it bother me... Must separate the business from the personal...no choice

Mila, yes, separate business from personal in what you do, but it is okay to be very bothered by it. It must feel devastating.

IMO, part of separating business from personal is talking with your business partner about adjustments in working hours. It is a business issue if he is not doing the work he needs to do to keep the business running regardless of how he is spending his vacation time.

.they are both on antidepressants...so they can't be as happy and content as they appear...also the constant trips they are taking seem to indicate that they need to maintain a level of excitement to feel happy...they are still escaping...there has been no reality yet...she has no job...he is doing the bare minimums in his...she keeps leaving her kids weeks at the time...he is not parenting his D.

You are helping delay the reality time by picking up his slack at work while he spends a lot of money and by not taking steps towards separation of finances, leaving the business, and filing for divorce.

His favorite ice cream is chocolate and I'm the best darn chocolate ice cream he can get...when he gets tired of whatever he is having now LOL

You are Haagen-Daz, or better. She is freezer burned genric.

Mila, I think your H does some of the things he does because he can.

Bingo!!!

Mila, it seems you keep wanting to set boundaries on the peripheral things, receipts, covering while he vacations with OW, while not enforcing the only boundary that really matters – he is sleeping with another woman.

I would love to see your marriage saved. It sounds like he has been a good husband most of the time. Please don’t think I would suggest you consider moving forward because your marriage can’t be salvaged, rather it's because it may well be the most promising way to turn him back towards you. At this point, I don’t see that you have anything to lose by showing him that YOU are moving on. You are no longer waiting for HIM to decide your future. Even if you divorce and then he realizes what he has lost, you can still remarry. That happens fairly often.

Please be kind to yourself. You have been badly hurt and it’s okay to feel it. (((hugs)))