Thanks for responding DDay. You are right, I need to take the emotions out of it. However, if the goal here is to restore the R, I want to do what works, not what I think is right?
Actually, she showed me the document that was submitted by her attorney to the court and served to my attorney and there was not a request to have me removed from the house. I suppose it could still be argued, but I think she is being genuine, albeit for her own self-interest.
She is currently working part-time and with 20 years experience she would have first, or almost first choice on any position she wants that becomes available. She knows she has to go back full-time, but says she wants to wait to help get the kids through this. However, in other breaths, she says she doesn't think this will be a big deal for them. Totally contradictory. She could also get a part-time waitress job to supplement, as she has a lot of experience doing that.
I'm nt sure what you are talking about on the initial request to leave. One day when we were arguing about OM she said if I couldn't "deal with it" I should get the F out. I told her to get the F out. Then when she filed, I asked her "Why don't you just leave now?" I don't know legally how I could have backed that up, as we own the house jointly.
You are right about the inner voice, she said almost exactly what you did above. However, what she isn't seeing is that it doesn't HAVE to be like THIS anymore, but she has to be willing to work on it and she is not.
So you are telling me to get ruthless, request that she move out and get this set-up like the divorce will look, right? Part of me thinks it would be good to live like this for a while before the divorce is final and things are set in stone. However, part of me wants to do what will work best to restore the R and I am not sure what that is at this point, but I need to decide quickly. Some of the guys on this website are being told to be friendlier and try to nurture things. Maybe my situation is more desperate and calls for more desperate measures.
Thank you so much for the perspective DDay. Deep down I know you are probably right and you haven't steered me wrong yet, but I'd like to also hear what some others think.
However, I am not telling you to "be ruthless". I'm just sayin treat this like a very important business transaction, and when their is personal involvement in that transaction, you have a conflict of interest, and where there is a conflict of interest, the deal gets soured.
Secondly, I hope your right. I hope your W is going into this with a mutual, non-agressive interest.
Mine said the very same.
Then, we entered the court room. And I was handed several dockets of false accusations that I had to claw and pcik at to at least get everyother weekend with my boys as initially, I was such a "horrible" "maniplutlating" and "abusive" person, that it was an "endangerment" for me to see MY OWN KIDS unsupervised. EDIT - And for the record, (x)W stiill claims she had NOTHING to do with a No Visitation Order.
That's why I have also advised you about being confrontational. It will come back to bite you in the arse.
So yeah, all the documents already served up might look all nice and clean, but be prepared for the unexpected! It's called catching you and your attorney off guard. It's a sick twisted effen game.
If it doesn't happen that way and goes nice and clean, GREAT! However, it probably won't. And let me tell you it just sucks to ripped apart peice by piece and by the time you realized what the hell happened, you got your thumb up your rear, two sheets to the wind in a daze.
Me 35/XW 33 S13 & S12 M: 10/17/98 OM & S: 07/08 D final 06/09/09 12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing" 06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10 06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
So you are telling me to get ruthless, request that she move out and get this set-up like the divorce will look, right?
All you are is a source of income in the courtroom. Since this is a business decision that can impact you for years to come then your L needs to be looking out for you. I know how hard this is but let your L do what he needs to do to protect your interests.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Journaling: Sorry for the ultra-long post, but here is how things went at the counselor yesterday if anyone is interested. Not sure I need comments on it, but I think I did very well due to all of the advice you guys have given me.
Counselor asks why I am here and what I want to discuss. I say I want to talk about how to tell the kids we are getting a D. I say “I don’t really want my kids to think that I want this, because I don’t, but, having said that, I want to approach this from the perspective of what is best for my kids is best for me, so I want to discuss how to go about this.”
W says that she has already talked with a counselor and pretty much already knows what to say, but that I want to blame this on her. I say I don’t want to blame, just don’t want kids to think this is what I want.
Counselor asks where we are in terms of the M and if we have seen an MC? W says yes, a few months back. How many sessions? Five sessions, but I tell the counselor that the MC was worthless. She says, it didn’t help? So I say, Absolutely not. She asks if we decided how to handle things in our last session? W says I filed for D about three weeks ago. C asks how we feel about this. So I say:
Although this is not what I want, I understand that it is not my choice. I have done everything I could for the last 5 months to make work on myself and make things better. I read 4 relationship books and am doing everything she asked of me. She has acknowledged the changes I have made and appreciates them, but none of it matters. W says she wants a D and is not willing to work on the R, so I have accepted that and am prepared to move forward. There is nothing else I can do. I have thanked her for pointing out these issues so that I can work on them to become a better person, have a better relationship with my kids and potentially better future relationships. (Thanks to all for your help with this!)
The C looked stunned!
W says she has been very stressed, wouldn’t wish this on anybody, is afraid of the hardships to come, but knows that this is what she has to do. I think she is very confused and hurting too right now. She says I don’t think she has worked on the R, but she says she has. This is where I really blew it. I should have said, How could you have been working on the R while you were having an affair with OM?? Didn’t hit me until later. Missed a golden opportunity there, but I am sure it will come up again in court.
I say I have heard ILYBNILWY, I don’t feel the way I should about my husband, we have fun together, we could be friends forever because she likes to hang out and talk with me, but I really don’t see us as being friends after this is over. C agrees to that.
Then we talk about how this will go, if it will be civil and if we will be able to agree on everything. I say I think we can agree on everything except the kids. Again, she looks surprised. I say I am fine with splitting what we have 50/50, because we both came into this relationship with nothing and she was a part of earning it all. C says you were the primary breadwinner and she took care of the kids, and that is what you agreed on. I say yes, so I am fine with it, but I am worried about our futures going forward.
I also say, W wants full child placement, with me every other weekend and I want 50% placement. Judges are doing this more and a bill is being introduced into the state govt to require it. W goes on and on about how it will be so hard on the kids, blah, blah, blah. Never mind the impact of the divorce on them, they will be fine.
C says affect on kids is based on how parents handle it and that local judges are awarding it. W says her attorney also mentioned that on days when I have the kids, she could still spend time with them until I get home from work, so it sounds like her atty is also telling her to expect this. It will absolutely kill her….
Then we talk about if I want to come in for IC with this C. I say, I would like that and then you can see my kids if they need someone? She says No, that would be a conflict of interest. I say, since I have heard that you are so good with kids, I could see someone else, because I don’t want to deprive them of the opportunity to see you if they need to. Tears welling in my eyes at this point. She says she will help us find a good counselor for the kids if needed. Someone she would send her own kids to. I say ok, lets set up a session for next week. C asks if W wants references, gives her 2 and W says she will think about it. I hope she goes.
I really feel a lot better the last few days. Thank you all so much for everything. I now know I can do this…..
Forgot the how to tell the kids part. Pretty standard. Don't blame each other. W shouldn't have to say she filed, just that we are getting a D. Answer their questions, but no more. Be prepared for reactions and watch their behavior for serious changes. Now we just have to decide when. I think the kids already know I don't want this, so I am not really worried about that anymore.
I am looking for a little feedback on this one if you don't mind.
So we get home from the C yesterday and kids go somewhere to play. W starts making small talk. All kinds of it, so I be polite and have a conversation with her. I don't remember all the topics she brought up, but one was how Aunt Flo had arrived already in only 21 days. Do I care about this anymore? Why is she even bothering to tell me?
So I say, you are bummin' dude. She says last few times were normal. She has been irregular for quite a while. Premenopausal stuff, along with acne, sweats, hair on her face, 1/2 of the symptions, but this has nothing to do with her decision.
Anyway, I show some empathy and I probably ended-up talking to her too much. Need to remember to walk away. I am not her friend anymore.
You have probably already answered this a couple of times, but the question is, why does she continue to tell me all this stuff? Especially about Aunt Flo??? That doesn't really impact me anymore since we are not intimate. I guess she is just trying to ease the situation and needs a friend.
I think that you handled the C about as well as you could. I'm glad to hear that you'll be going back. That will be more important that you know. As things progress legally, you will definitely want a C to discuss things with.
Just a tip- Your W is not getting a full time job because that will hurt her chance of getting the max amount of $ from you. I'm quite certain her L has told her that. That's also why she's going for primary custody.
The house buy out option sounds like a great option for you. Do not discuss this with your W but do talk to your L about it. It's not about revenge or getting back at her. When you think about it, this is best for her as well. You're buying her out = she has more money. She probably won't see it that way at first but she might later.
All in all. You're doing better. Hang in there and remember she's not your friend right now.
The courts in WI are SUPPOSED to base child support and spousal maintenance on earnings potential, not what you happen to be earning at the moment. Otherwise, I would quit my job and go work at McDonalds. They would say, no way. You can earn $100k and you will pay based on that no matter where you work.
Same should be true for her and I believe that it probably will be. At least that is what my attorney is indicating. I just hope it has to start NOW. No more weekdays at the beach and movies with the kids! Go to work. Although I don't like that as much for the kids, they will have to deal with it for the time being and I will have to do more with them on vacation days and weekends.
Too tired to write much at the moment, but when I got home tonight I went straight over to the neighbors who have been very supportive of me. They are REALLY good friends. After an hour or so, W comes walking up with 2 beers in her hand. She recently had an issue because I was talking with neighbors about our problems and she felt she was being judged. I asked neighbor wife to email her and let her know that I wasn't bagging her and they weren't judging either of us. They are both divorced.
She wrote a terrible note, so I wrote one for her instead. I didn't want W to think I was trying to poison everyone against her, which I am not, I am just seeking help. So W gets the note and is very appreciative and everyone tells me I am too soft for wanting to relieve W's feelings, but I can't help it.....
Anyway, things go well, W seems happy and is laughing and heavily involved in the conversation. She then leaves to get kids in shower and I get a text from OM's wife asking me to call her. Apparently OM is out tonight, but isn't where he said he would be. She has GPS device on his car and she wants to know where W is. I say she is here with me, so no issue there. She is very upset and I don't really know what to tell her. She say OM still has many incoming calls at the time my W goes to work in the am and believes they are still in contact, even though both deny it. I am guessing they are, but have no way to prove it. We hang up and she feels a bit better that W is not with her H, but she is still concerned.
I go home, tuck the kids in goodnight and grab some dinner very late. W is sitting on the couch and I take my dinner and another beer (quit drinking) over to the neighbor's house and say nothing to W. I stay until well after she goes to bed and then come home and type this.
I am confused as to why she came over and was so personable? Neighbors say it is all a front and she is getting ready for court and to be careful. I am not sure what to think at this point. Is DB working or are they right that she is just playing me? Neighbor says he never saw his uncle's wife so attentive as when she was getting ready to divorce him.
I really want to bust them together, but neighbors warning me of my reaction if I DO see them together. Warning the same as DDay, be careful and do not confront them. Will be used against you in court.
Not sure what is up or where to go at this point. Starting to get tired of this situation and am feeling much better about moving on. Told neighbor about meeting with IC and she said it sounded very healthy. Nobody can actually believe my attitude at this point.
Anybody have any thoughts? Looking for some direction from those in the know.
