Dazed and Confused...Need Advice!!!!

[CD Bear]

Spring, you got a thread?
I'm curious how your WAH differs from my WAW.
It's opposing gender perspectives that really "poke you in the eye". I know when Sandi chimes in on my thread, it's usually an eye opener. I look forward to them cause they usually show up right in the middle of a "men's night". Not that I don't appreciate their experience but that "other side of the coin" is usually a slight twist that I find enlightening. It fills in the gaps that I feel are missing.

[SMM23]

So where do I go from here? Wife acts for the most part like everythnig is great. Except she basically comes and goes as she pleases and we do not sleep in the same room. Do I continue to wait it out? Act like everything is great and I am happy? Even when inside I am boiling over and one foot in the grave. Her addiction to the f_ing cell phone is infuriating. I give her 2 days a week to have time to herself and think. Then she comes home at 10PM. I would like to think she is not having an affair, but everythnig sure points to the fact that she is. Maybe she really is just going on walks thinking like she says she is. She usually comes home and gives me a kiss. I would think if she was messing around she would not do that. She also seeks me out at bedtime and gives me a hug and a kiss. To the average person on the outside nobody knows that we are seperated by a wall in our house. I slipped up one time and said we were not sleeping in the same room to a friend, and they said "What, you guys look so happy together." I know in my head that she loves me but I think she still is in the ILYBNILWY place. What can I do to change this? I am to the point that I am ready to tell her to get out of my house because I deserve better. Our S desrves better from her. Maybe that will make her truly think about what she wants. If it is not me, then maybe that is it. I know someone else out there will treat me better. And through the changes I have made from this book and several others I have read, I know I can have a great relationship with someone. But if she thinks we are going to get a divorce and be best friends she is out of her mind. That is what I have now, so if that is what I want I will just continue on the way it it. I just do not feel that is acceptable. Any thoughts?

[CD Bear]

This sounds a lot like my sitch other than the hugging and kissing- and frankly, I'm glad cause that woyuld really get under my skin.

My advice- and I'm not an expert but only where my path led me- is to "inform her" that the constant use of the phone for text or talk is disturbing; distracting and disrespectful to your child and you. If she asks why, it's because "it's secretive and makes you emotionally absent". If she says it's not then ask her to unlock the phone for you so you can have a look. She won't. Proves your point. "If it is not appropriate for me to see it, then it's inappropriate. Therefore, disrespectful. If you must use it, then I will only accept that you leave the room to read it or reply. That way you will also see how little time you are really spending with our child"

I would work a little more on detaching. What I've been told is her kissing hugging are a) guilt relief b)checking to see she can still spin your plate c) trying to preserve you as a friend (which you will NOT settle for) d)cake eating. You have to draw the line. You can't detach if she keeps physically holding on. She certainly won't be doing this after a D so why now?

Though it may not apply to you, have a look at No More Mr Nice Guy by Glover. Read it in an Indigo or something. You may find some perspective on how you are NOT getting what you want. I was afraid of conflict or making it worse. How could this be worse? Divorce is my last option and I'm in it already. Can't be worse. No fear. The Limbo Land is worse. Neither in nor out.

Are you getting YOUR two days a week where she covers YOU off to come home at 10?

[SMM23]

My advice- and I'm not an expert but only where my path led me- is to "inform her" that the constant use of the phone for text or talk is disturbing; distracting and disrespectful to your child and you. If she asks why, it's because "it's secretive and makes you emotionally absent". If she says it's not then ask her to unlock the phone for you so you can have a look. She won't. Proves your point. "If it is not appropriate for me to see it, then it's inappropriate. Therefore, disrespectful. If you must use it, then I will only accept that you leave the room to read it or reply. That way you will also see how little time you are really spending with our child"

I tried a different approach about a year ago. Everytime she got on the phone to text or search the web I would ask who she was talking to and what she was doing. After a while she asked what my [explitive] problem was. I asked her if I was annoying her and she said yes. I said well, that is becasue I said somethnig everytime you were on the phone. So if you were annoyed becasue I was constantly saying somethign, that tells tyou how much you were on your phone. She just said whatever.

I would work a little more on detaching. What I've been told is her kissing hugging are a) guilt relief b)checking to see she can still spin your plate c) trying to preserve you as a friend (which you will NOT settle for) d)cake eating. You have to draw the line. You can't detach if she keeps physically holding on. She certainly won't be doing this after a D so why now?

How do I detach without tgiving the impression that I do not love her anymore? It just seems to me that if I stop givig her attention that she will think I am done.

Though it may not apply to you, have a look at No More Mr Nice Guy by Glover. Read it in an Indigo or something. You may find some perspective on how you are NOT getting what you want. I was afraid of conflict or making it worse. How could this be worse? Divorce is my last option and I'm in it already. Can't be worse. No fear. The Limbo Land is worse. Neither in nor out.

I read about this book on another thread. I fit this situation to the T. So I will be going to get that book.

Are you getting YOUR two days a week where she covers YOU off to come home at 10?

Ahh, that would be a no. The only time I get to myself I had to fight for and I won becasue it was for somethnig I wanted to do. But every week there she is complaining that she has to pick my son up so I can go play soccer.

I am actually getting really sick of the whole thing. The longer this goes on the less I want to be with her. And ESPECIALLY her crack pot family. I never liked her family and they are INSANE. They treat her like total garbage and she keeps going back for more. One thing that has started to bother me is the way she treats my S. The way she yells at him and the way that she acts I think she totally gets from the way her motehr treated her. I can totally see it and it is WRONG. We tried for 7 years to have a kid. She miscarried once and you would think that after she has a ver nice smart little boy that she would do anythnig for him and want to be with him. But it is quite the opposite. She needs help, I am worried what will happen if I remove what support I have left for her.

[CD Bear]

How do I detach without giving the impression that I do not love her anymore? It just seems to me that if I stop givig her attention that she will think I am done.

That's the Million Dollar question and I am also becoming concerned in my thread as well. I just asked for a little more assistance on this. If it helps, my concern is that my detachment appears to her as the 'same' lack of attention/affection I displayed before (albeit for different reasons now) However, you NEED to emotionally detach from her. It helps keep your emotions in check when you deal wit hthis thus preventing an escalation. Second, if it does go full D, you'll already be half-way to rebuilding your life. Third, it will keep you grounded enough to make your S the #1 concern in your life. If I learn anything more, I'll put it here for you.

Ahh, that would be a no. The only time I get to myself I had to fight for and I won becasue it was for somethnig I wanted to do. But every week there she is complaining that she has to pick my son up so I can go play soccer.

You HAVE to get stronger on this. If she is talking D, she's gonna need to hold up her end of the "end-game". How does she behave when you are the primamry care-giver? Come and go as she pleases? Text you at 5 pm on Tuesday that she won't be home tonight? If so, YOU MUST TAKE the same opportunities for your own space to grow and Get A Life.

I am actually getting really sick of the whole thing. The longer this goes on the less I want to be with her.

And that is something you and I will have to consider carefully IF our W's "come out of the ether". But until then, I am operating like it's my D and me.

One thing that has started to bother me is the way she treats my S. The way she yells at him and the way that she acts I think she totally gets from the way her mother treated her. I can totally see it and it is WRONG. She needs help, I am worried what will happen if I remove what support I have left for her.

You need to address this. And speak only for your S's protection.
"You cannot treat him that way. Your frustration with your life is not his fault. If you cannot control your emotions around him, I will (get CPS involved?; require supervision when you are with him?;, etc)" I don't know what your legal options are there but you have to make S #1. Do you have any other witnesses to her bhvr around your son?

Regarding No More Mr NG, I am excited about putting some of these changes into my life. I believe that there is as much to do with these issues that lead to my contributions to our M as those found in DB. Wish I'd seen it sooner. I'm hoping the expression "never too late" is true.

[Coach]

How do I detach without tgiving the impression that I do not love her anymore? It just seems to me that if I stop givig her attention that she will think I am done.

"lovingly detach"

I did things sporadically that were targeted to make her feel loved. You must do these things with no expectations. The Greeks LLs are WOA and AOS so I looked for ways to scratch those itches. Really listening, making eye contact and holding it, agreeing with her feelings and letting her be her. If I wanted something I made it a goal for her to do it (180). I wanted a hug so I made it a goal for her to give me one (not pursuing). So I had to know what would attract her. Be catnip.

ex. "I know you like this band and I heard they just released a new CD so I picked it up for you."

Look for things that show a emotional connection without it being discussed. Because you "know" her. Wear a cologne you know she likes, smell triggers powerful emotions. Buy a new shirt in a color she likes on you that you like. Be sensual - involve the senses. Don't talk about it and don't expect anything from it - confidence (know that you are attractive to her.) Don't tell the Greek but I still use these DB mind tricks - SSSHHHHH.

[sandi2]

How do I detach without tgiving the impression that I do not love her anymore? It just seems to me that if I stop givig her attention that she will think I am done.

[DanF]

I agree that detachment is tough. I am finding myself have fewer feeling for her. I suppose it is the way she feels due to the way she says I have treated her for so long.

I was blind, but now I see.

[sandi2]

From what I've read, the detaching is probably the hardest step there is to do in DBing. For one thing, it is very difficult for the LBS to understand. Due to the pain & stress, I believe his mind is somewhat fogged, too.

I think the LBH is too worried about that his love for his WAW will NOT show through to her. He's too concerned that he'll appear to be distant or cold. But his WAW doesn't want his love, affection, attention, time, etc. Do you get that? She doesn't want it. Now remember that I'm talking about a woman in an affair. Her H turns her off in just about everyway you can imagine! I don't know how to make it any more clear.

My question to the LBH is why....WHY are you trying to make so darn sure she has your undying love when she could care less? She needs to be concerned....she should worry....if she has any of your love left. Instead of trying to prove your love, your trust in her, she should be thinking carefully about what she's done to distroy what you once felt for her.

When she throws the bomb on him, it throws him into a panic and he suddenly is overcome by his love for her......and feels that he must convince her how strongly he loves her. He worries about her doubting he loves her. Now tell me where that makes any sense!

But here's the thing; he must do what he "feels" is entirely opposite. This is not the time to be smothering her...and that is exactly how she would feel whenever you would try to prove how much you love her. I can see it throughout posts of LBH's but they have a hard time seeing it in themselves. But I know the heart of a WAW in an A. It ain't pretty! The only thing that might get her attention is if she thinks she lost something she once had.

He has to use tough love. He must pull away in order to draw her in. Just as if he had a rope tied to her....and he backed away, it would automatically pull her toward him. But if he doesn't do that, then she'll walk away from him, dragging him after her.

[DaddyLongShanks]

From what I've read, the detaching is probably the hardest step there is to do in DBing. For one thing, it is very difficult for the LBS to understand. Due to the pain & stress, I believe his mind is somewhat fogged, too.

I think the LBH is too worried about that his love for his WAW will NOT show through to her. He's too concerned that he'll appear to be distant or cold. But his WAW doesn't want his love, affection, attention, time, etc. Do you get that? She doesn't want it. Now remember that I'm talking about a woman in an affair. Her H turns her off in just about everyway you can imagine! I don't know how to make it any more clear.

My question to the LBH is why....WHY are you trying to make so darn sure she has your undying love when she could care less? She needs to be concerned....she should worry....if she has any of your love left. Instead of trying to prove your love, your trust in her, she should be thinking carefully about what she's done to distroy what you once felt for her.

When she throws the bomb on him, it throws him into a panic and he suddenly is overcome by his love for her......and feels that he must convince her how strongly he loves her. He worries about her doubting he loves her. Now tell me where that makes any sense!

But here's the thing; he must do what he "feels" is entirely opposite. This is not the time to be smothering her...and that is exactly how she would feel whenever you would try to prove how much you love her. I can see it throughout posts of LBH's but they have a hard time seeing it in themselves. But I know the heart of a WAW in an A. It ain't pretty! The only thing that might get her attention is if she thinks she lost something she once had.

He has to use tough love. He must pull away in order to draw her in. Just as if he had a rope tied to her....and he backed away, it would automatically pull her toward him. But if he doesn't do that, then she'll walk away from him, dragging him after her.

sandi2,

This is great information. It gives me visibility into how a WAW would percieve the situation. Also points out the fact that they don't want your love while they are in their PA and that many of our traits turn them off. We knew that they tend to view the husband in a critical lense, but its revealing to see that they don't want your love. That all the natural things we would do to regain their love work exactly against us.