embracing change

[flowmom]

Sorry, don't have time to repond to replies, but THANK YOU for the input.

So I replied to him:

Hi H

I'm not sure what you're asking...can you please clarify?

Flowmom

and he replied:

There are financial accountant type people who help couples divide assets, pensions, etc. and also come up with child and spousal support agreements. We could do this ourselves but I think getting some help here would be a much better idea. I would need such an agreement before I could approach a bank and ask how much I'm eligible for mortgage wise.

Thx

H

I am confused. Is he asking the we do a DIY legal separation agreement with some professional input on financial stuff? Not get any legal advice? Not use a mediator (which is what he wanted to do in January)? I don't understand.

Alice, it sounds like you went to such a person with your H...any insight as to how a financial guy would play a role in this?

[alice444]

I am confused. Is he asking the we do a DIY legal separation agreement with some professional input on financial stuff? Not get any legal advice? Not use a mediator (which is what he wanted to do in January)? I don't understand.

I am not sure what he is asking, but it sounds like yes, maybe he wants to see a financial consultant of some sort to just work out the money? Better clarify again and mention mediation/L's specifically.

Alice, it sounds like you went to such a person with your H...any insight as to how a financial guy would play a role in this?

So, here's what I know about processes here, what I've been told.

In a collaborative or mediated divorce, it's possible and recommended as part of the process (but not required by law or anything) to see a financial consultant in addition to your L's to work with you specifically on the money projections (budget), etc. They may advise on how taxes will come out with the new 2 households, what benefits you might get from claiming the children on one of your taxes, etc. (you get a deduction here for children but only one spouse can claim them each year). They may look at your spending and advise how much you can afford to pay in rent if you need to get new housing. You will of course work with the L's on money stuff, particularly with what the law says about how it should be divided, etc. but if you need more in-depth expertise, the L's often cost more (or so I'm told) to see than an FC and they're not primarily financial people. The L's have FCs they work with and could recommend. So, you could "carve out" some of the nitty gritty financial decisions and work with an FC on them and (most important, I think) they should be able to give you a picture of your financial future post-D to help you make decisions now.

Aside from that you can really do whatever you want, no matter what kind of D you're getting- and I think it's a good idea to see both an FC and an accountant, if possible (b/c they will be an expert on taxes, and an FC isn't necessarily). What we have is our regular FC who has advised us for years on our retirement accounts, investments, etc. He first advised we work out as much of the financial stuff (not support, but division of assets) as we could in principle between ourselves so as not to give all our $ to the L's. He then offered not only to go over the financial picture but also, having a grasp of how things are divided in a D (of course I would still consult an L to doublecheck), he offered to help us work the $ details out (again, this wouldn't be legally binding but would give you a lot of info) and if appropriate, make recommendations on what would be most advantageous for both of us financially.

So, e.g., he was giving advice about various ways we could accomplish the division of assets (you know details from my other post) that he thought would give us EACH a better or worse financial picture. He would also help with the paperwork for, e.g., dividing up our retirement accounts if necessary. In our case he represents both of us and would try to do the best he can for each of us without harming the other financially (again, you would doublecheck with L or you could see 2 FCs I guess). He will not draw up or file legal paperwork to be submitted to the court. It would just be a negotiation of the division of assets we'd then take to L's to draw up, but he would help move money around to various accounts we have with his firm as necessary.

He could also advise on things like, if needed, whether it would be smart to temporarily stop contributing to your retirement account if you need extra cash each month now, and how that would affect you 20 years in the future when you retire. Or, if you hold off on saving for kids' college for awhile now, how much you'd have to put away later when you're more financially stable in order to pay for a certain kind of school for them.

Anyone can hire an FC- here you'd go through a place like Ameriprise (American Express), Fidelity, maybe Charles Schwab, etc. For regular business, they bill in different ways- since we don't have a big portfolio, ours just bills us a yearly fee for us to come in whenever we want, within reason and to manage our money (to give you an idea, our fee is $1200/year plus a very small - like 1%- dividend off any trades he makes for us, which is rare). What this gets us is meetings with him as often as we want (usually quarterly, sometimes more) throughout the year, advice on everything from buying a house, to advice on and managing of investment funds, to which of our works' 401K funds we should invest in, what kind of life insurance we should have to make sure our kids are taken care of, etc. His job all year is to keep an eye on our investments, make sure our assets increase in worth, advise when he wants to make adjustments to them to take advantage of the market, and tell us things like how much we should be putting away for daughter's college, tax advantages of that, etc.

He's also willing to answer questions over email and the phone. Other FCs may bill by charging a fee/percentage for stock trades, etc., esp if you have a lot of money/assets. I imagine you could also just contract with them either for a flat fee or by the hour to consult on the D stuff. Paying this guy has been one of the best decisions we've ever made. When H was unemployed for almost 2 years, we actually increased our net worth while managing with one income. I don't like to hassle with watching or shifting my retirement account investments, do research on life insurance or education savings plans, etc. We get immeasurable value back for our money (and no, I'm not affiliated with any FCs

Any other questions, let me know and I'll try to answer them here or in alt- I hope that's helpful!

[Gardener]

fm,

I am confused. Is he asking the we do a DIY legal separation agreement with some professional input on financial stuff? Not get any legal advice? Not use a mediator (which is what he wanted to do in January)?

Sounds to me like that's what he's asking. I'd refuse. Aside from that I bow out and defer to Alice's expertise, above.

[flowmom]

Thank you Alice for taking the time to explain to me what your FG does for you . I really appreciate it. Sounds like it might be worth our while to see one to deal with some of the stuff that's on the table.

[flowmom]

Update on the possible OW "V". So I spontaneously casually asked H if he was in a R with "V" today. He denied it and I told him why I had assumed that. He said that he had been looking to widen our children's social circle and had been hanging out with various mothers and their children, including her. He said there had been some flirtation between them but that he had decided that he didn't want the children to be mixed up in any dating situation. I made it clear that I expected to be notified of him being involved with anyone in my circle out of respect, and that I didn't want to be the "last one to know". He said he was going to talk to "V" to clarify where things stand between them and agreed that my expectations were reasonable. I told him that I would let him know if I was dating someone in his fire department.

It was a good conversation overall, and gave me a chance to say a couple of things. But there was a serious yuck factor to talking with my husband about the etiquette of relationship notification . He still is the love of my life, and the only man that I am attracted to.

I need to figure out whether I am protecting myself by not being open with him about my feelings (protecting my dignity) or whether I am protecting him (not wanting to force him into the yuckiness of having to deal with my true desire, which is to reconcile).

[flowmom]

So the ball is rolling on working on the separation agreement. H agreed to
1. do coparenting plan before financial stuff
2. try out the psychologist who I really liked

It was weird, he seemed to be seeking my guidance/input. I don't know if that's just following the pattern of our M, or if he's going out of his way to be cooperative with me to avoid nastiness.

I am optimistic that he will have a good impression of the psychologist.

I've been emotional in the last week since H first brought out sorting out the financials. I'm mostly feeling a sense of acceptance, but I still have some desperate thoughts of wanting to DO something to prevent the D outcome.

[newmama]

I need to figure out whether I am protecting myself by not being open with him about my feelings (protecting my dignity) or whether I am protecting him (not wanting to force him into the yuckiness of having to deal with my true desire, which is to reconcile).

wow, good "question!" It does seem like you have mentioned your concern for your dignity a few times...so the motivation for not showing your feelings isn't to bust the divorce? I didn't realize that.

That was my only motivation, other than avoiding being rejected by stbxh's response to my feelings. So you mean you might be wanting to protect your H from having an uncomfortable conversation about the idea of reconciliation? Or what would be you be protecting him from exactly?



(((Flowmom)))

[alice444]

((((FM))))

So the ball is rolling on working on the separation agreement. H agreed to
1. do coparenting plan before financial stuff
2. try out the psychologist who I really liked

It was weird, he seemed to be seeking my guidance/input. I don't know if that's just following the pattern of our M, or if he's going out of his way to be cooperative with me to avoid nastiness.

I am optimistic that he will have a good impression of the psychologist.

Well, that's good to hear, I guess. I don't know what to say as to why he's being cooperative- it could be just that he perceives you as not openly fighting the D, and sad as that is, it makes him calm down and be more reasonable.

I've been emotional in the last week since H first brought out sorting out the financials. I'm mostly feeling a sense of acceptance, but I still have some desperate thoughts of wanting to DO something to prevent the D outcome.

Yes, it goes in waves, doesn't it. It did seem like over the past month or so you had said you "accepted" the outcome, but just b/c you feel like that one day or even put it in writing doesn't mean you can't or won't feel differently later. It seems like it's also easier to feel "accepting" when there's not much concrete legal activity going on/topics being brought up. But the feelings get stirred up when these new things come up.

I think it's totally natural to feel a last "I want to DO something" and only you can decide whether or not to do it and what it would look like. Are you still seeing IC and could you maybe discuss this?

I'm glad you were able to have a sane discussion with him about V, but totally understand how awful and uncomfortable that must've been- I can't even imagine. Do you believe him that there is no R there?

More ((((((hugs))))))) to you

[idontunderstand]

I've been emotional in the last week since H first brought out sorting out the financials. I'm mostly feeling a sense of acceptance, but I still have some desperate thoughts of wanting to DO something to prevent the D outcome.

Amen, FM. I guess that it's normal.

Not much to add.

Always admiring your dignity and courage.

[flowmom]

It's been a tough day and I have a laundry list of things that I'm feeling bad about.

* tomorrow is six months since S-day...it was my personal deadline for deciding whether to wait or drop

* Sunday is stbxh's birthday

* I will have no personal time during the day this weekend

* my sister and most of my friends are out of town this weekend

* I have read half of the coparenting book and it's really upsetting

* stbxh has his intial meeting with the psychologist on Monday

* all of my children's playmates are out of town

* I am discouraged about making playdates with children who S6 plays with less frequently because the one on Thursday was a disaster

* I am feeling lonely and mad at myself for that

* oh and I'm pretty sick (sore throat sinuses, etc)

Within the stages of abandonment (SWIRL), I seem to be stuck in Internalizing. It seems like Rage has to happen if I want to make progress. One friend says that maybe I'm so "evolved" that I will be able to skip rage. Not likely but nice of her to say . Another friend says that I need to actively work on cultivating rage against stbxh. Sigh. Not sure how I would do that. My eyes are open to his faults and they have been for a long time. But there's a disconnect between my intellectual understanding of his faults and shortcomings and betrayals...and my emotional reaction to those. Any input?