This is my stbxh!!!!traumatic adolescence--brainy, scrawny, bullied. He grew up poor in an Indiana town--oops wrong song! he grew up DIRT poor, working on the farm. He vowed to never live a life like that again. His parents were very religious. He didn't relate. He was a pro on the golf team, math team, was terrific at fixing cars, always worked hard to earn money for his latest car...and did eventually get some girlfriends. Who went to a different highschool.
He wanted to live in the city and go to college so he worked hard for 2 years after highschool, started college in the city, worked graveyard in a warehouse... He is now highly successful at work. Makes good money. And left his pregnant wife for a trashy immoral selfish messed up skank????
I realize that he is concerned about image. How funny!!!! What kind of image is he going to have now that everyone at work knows???? Hmm....
No matter the outcome, the need to prove oneself is an aspect of masculinity that usually starts in adolescence. Determined to "become a man," teenagers will often set impossibly high standards for themselves. As they experience the inevitable failures of trying to measure up, they devise intricate, ingenious schemes to be judged a success by their peers, and particularly by girls. Young males learn to be cover-up artists, even con artists, at this hypercompetitive, hypersensitive age. "Winning" a girl over by artifice and deceit is condoned because without a girlfriend many boys feel stigmatized. It's the kind of stigma that sometimes leads to isolation and depression, so lies, or stretching the truth, are easy to rationalize. More than being a sports star or having money or being blessed with good looks, having a girl on his arm can mean the ultimate peer approval for a young man.
Behind his "victory," however, an adolescent often has a nagging feeling that he doesn't really know what he's doing, that he's a fake, and that at any moment his doubts and duplicity will be exposed to the world. Many men carry this fear and self-doubt into their adult lives, their professions, and their relationships, no matter how successful they try to appear.
In terms of nurturing, approval, and acceptance, what these men didn't get from their families as boys and adolescents, they often want from their adult partner, or from popular culture. If they can just lose a little more weight, get that promotion, buy that cool car, live in a great neighborhood ... surely their insecurities will melt away. The irony is that our culture, instead of bestowing the unconditional acceptance and approval that men (and women) want, offers instead more judgment, insecurity, criticism, rejection, and false hopes than even the most dysfunctional family could possibly devise.
Without the flexibility, relating skills, and patience to solve problems, many men just give up when things get too tough. They would rather walk out the door or dive into their private ocean of anger and guilt than be scrutinized and judged by their partners. Women give up on their relationships too - more often than men, according to most psychologists - but with a lot more thoughtfulness and less emotion than men bring to this process. The irony is that women are the emotional gender but can be coolly rational under fire, while men are supposed to be objective and in control but easily collapse when their emotions take over.
They have difficulty connecting head to heart in any efficient way.
For women, "emotional reasoning" may be a skill honed from centuries of survival. In medieval times, when men from a village went off to war, only to be killed in combat, their widows knew that to survive, and for the survival of their children, they had to adapt to a new man. There was little time for grieving, only for clearheaded thinking.
Perhaps this is why today when a woman abandons her relationship there is little stigma. She's seen as liberating herself, or doing what it takes to survive, or what's best for her children. On the other hand, when men flee they are often labeled as irresponsible and cowardly.Women, hurt and angry at being abandoned, often use a man's definition of his masculinity against him. If he was supposed to be the protector and provider, they say, he failed not just his partner but himself.
But are men really failures? Are they so irresponsible or negligent? Perhaps the deck has been stacked against them and they don't even know it, or they don't know what to do about it.
The truth is that a man who does not understand or feel comfortable with himself, was never nurtured as a child, never learned to trust and value his emotions, or never acquired socialization skills, especially conflict resolution, will almost inevitably wilt under the responsibility of a relationship or a family. He may not necessarily run away, but neither will he find deep satisfaction or meaning in his most intimate relationship. Men, who tend to define their relationships more by their actions (for example, "making a living" or "being a responsible husband and father") than their emotions, will often live with their unhappiness and confusion, sometimes unaware there even is a problem until their partners tell them. Too many men are the emperors of ignorance and denial.
This is not to say that men don't have emotional triggers, or that they're clueless, or that they can't fall out of love because they never fell in love in the first place, as some women asserted. Men have a different point of view.
Many feel they are often driven out of love by their partners' behaviors. Among the men I spoke with, living with a controlling woman was love's principal assassin. Men might be equally guilty of trying to control, but their efforts are rarely as sophisticated, subtle, or pervasive; they are not as embedded in their gender "language" as they are for women. Possessing a wide range of emotions, women have the ability to turn their feelings on and off, and jump from one to another, in the blink of an eye. Their control might come through interference, judgment, inducing guilt or shame in a partner, setting and changing rules, or withholding affection - some of which can be conveyed in a tone of voice, a hand gesture, a hurt glance, or a pregnant silence. Few men have such range or abilities. They are simply not wired that way. Yet many women are unconscious of what they do and the effect they have on their partners. That they can be intimidating to men comes as a surprise to them[u]. Their self-image is so positive, and they are so supportive of one another, they think, how can strong men possibly be intimidated by caring women?[/u]
Last edited by newmama; 06/29/1001:44 AM.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
Look. my stbxh was affectionate, hardworking, extremely giving, extremely attentive to details, took care of everything, helped me sooo much and my family, helped me in my classroom, cooked, cleaned, listened, fixed broken things, paid the bills, kept the yard up.
So it is EXTREMELY hurtful and painful to me when people try to tell me he "is not worth it," is a POS, you should hate him, he's worthless, you can do better etc.
I am NOT wearing blinders. I don't think every husband or wife is worth "waiting and hoping" for or worth reconciling with. But my husband was NOT a scumbag! Yes he hurt me incredibly, he is hurting our son, he is doing these stupid destructive things. But he is more than just a man who left his pregnant wife for the office trashy scumbag jezebel disgusting tramp!
And I read on here soo many husbands who did a lot worse ON TOP of cheating. I am embarrassed that I was so selfish and clueless during our time together. Maybe this happened to teach me how to be a better wife and have a long lasting relationship in my next marriage!
Last edited by newmama; 06/29/1001:51 AM.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
To go off your last post, I read something interesting in Oprah's magazine yesterday. It was an article about how people can be two things at once, a true dichotomy. That people are not "either/or" but they are usually "both/and". Meaning, our WH/Hs can be both awful and destructive AND loving and considerate. And that most people are two opposing things at once.
The article didn't get too deep, but it was an interesting message.
me, 30 WH, 29 D born June 2010 M: July 2001 Bomb/S: 1/14/10 Done with it all.
Thank you Figgeroni! I think I am like a case where you have to get your leg amputated but you still have "ghost" feelings of it being there...meaning I was THIS CLOSE to having my family (I felt) and I never got to even experience it for a day or a couple weeks or a couple of months. So it makes me want it more I guess. But you are right. Family is where the heart is. I am enough by myself. Gone is the intact family though! It is now worthless to dream it! I don't mean that negatively, I am being honest. It ain't happenin so I shouldn't pine for it! I will get there.
Last edited by newmama; 06/30/1003:50 AM.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
So I had a pretty good day with S! I don't know if it is me or because he is almost 1, his personality is really shining through. But I can actually play with him at the park on the swing where I hold him up 1,2, and then I say 3! and let go and he looooves it! He might start to be putting things inside containers now, too, instead of just dumping them out. But he is throwing his food on the floor and being a picky eater. I use my instincts but wish I had a partner to help me. So I confess, I have asked stbxh his opinion or what does HE do in those cases.
It is just darn confusing. Am I supposed to pretend he doesn't exist? Or is it ok that I ask him his opinion/help on child rearing questions? This is why I do want to get married again. Raising a kid by yourself is doable but it is DAMN HARD!!! So there is nothing wrong with me for wanting help! He gets to ask OW (barf puke moan!)
Ok another question I have...what about taking up his offer to help me with stuff? Like he offered to help me move my boxes back to my school (I have 2 carloads worth).
Do exes do that kind of stuff for each other or it not part of the deal? You know- like is that wrong?
SO please- let me know-is it ok that I communicate with him about q's I have related to S?
AND is it okay to accept his help? Thank you!
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
You must be the best mama ever because you just have a calming effect - even when you're pissed! Thank goodness I had like 12 pages to read up on tonight - I needed it! As always, thank you for sharing...
So anyway, my dearest friend always says to me, "The film is still rolling. The movie isn't over yet."
I find that advice so helpful. It doesn't mean that Mr. A and I or you and Mr. NM will ride off into the sunset, it just means that this whole thing is still evolving.
You've had a ton to process lately. You don't need to force yourself to draw conclusions now. Just notice and handle everything that's being thrown at you.
Ok, now I'm giving advice to myself. But I'm happy to read that you're enjoying time with S!!!
Um, I guess, good luck with the next little while - whatever rolls on the film. You have a lot of people on these boards who think you rock!!
CW thanks for asking! I am still feeling good-not numb, not elated, just good. I ordered new comforter set and wall art for my bedroom. I filled 2 HUGE heavy duty garbage bags with clothes to give to Goodwill!
And for S' b-day next week, on his actual day, well I will ask about that. Do I acknowledge it with stbxh? I accidentally scheduled S' 12 month appt (shots! ) on his actual birthday! I mean it was the day and time that worked...so I was thinking of giving S an Elmo cupcake on that day (well you know- he won't eat the thing!) and doing it with stbxh????
But he has him that night. So he will take him to his place with OW. I am sure they will celebrate.
I am having an Elmo themed b-day party with my family on the 11th!
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
) on his actual birthday! I mean it was the day and time that worked...so I was thinking of giving S an Elmo cupcake on that day (well you know- he won't eat the thing!) and doing it with stbxh????