Live in the Now!!

[kat727]

I think Romantic love is really more like infatuation. Real love, I believe is unconditional. It can be felt in an instant as with a child or can be built over time. Most people are expecting tit for tat, you give here, I give there and and call it love. Real love would be not anticipating anything in return but giving your heart none the less. It would be wanting all the best things for the other person, even if, that meant they may not be with you. So by my last definition, I am not sure that I had "Real" love for my husband because I don't wish the best for him with someone else. lol

Just so you know I didn't get these definitions until after my divorce. I hope that helps. In a marriage, I do believe it can exist certainly but you have to get to the point where you can be unselfish. It comes with time and trust.

kat

[ClingingToHope]

I understand that feelings change and people change...isn't M not only about love...but also about commitment. There were plenty of times that people in a M don't feel necessarily 'in love'....if you hang in there and work on it...does it come back?

I guess I've come to believe love is a commitment. I really struggled with the fact that happily ever after doesn't exist. I'm a romantic. And I acted out on it early in the marriage -- pouting when the sex became infrequent, not giving her space.

But last March I came to a realization that I wasn't loving unconditionally. I loved STBXW but I don't love her family. I love STBXW but I don't love how she spends money, etc.

We had a long talk and I laid it all out for her and for two weeks the window was back open. Then a couple of little things closed the window and I haven't seen the woman I married again.

In October, she said love is a feeling and she doesn't have it anymore.

I don't think she's capable of loving another man -- really loving them, accepting the faults and deciding for herself that this is her life, she chose it and she's happy with it.

I could go on and on. But I do think love is a choice and it can be a hard one. If another opportunity presents itself to feel that romantic, puppy love, my guess is it can be hard to pass up.

I never had that choice and I would hope I would have remained committed to my vows.

The easy way is to give in to that chance at the quick fix love ... and that appears to be what happened to Dan.

[lolawar]

So when people 'Fall out of love' or get the 'I love you but just not in love with you'....do you think it means that it wasn't ever 'Real Love'...just 'Romantic Love'...that fizzled? It makes you question if love ever existed in your M to begin with.

I never questioned these things until faced with my M ending. I don't mean to sound so cynical...but I do now question the meaning of love in a M. I am sure many of us do.

It comes with time and trust.

Then you have those couples that are married for 20+ years...and face this dilemma. Was it not enough time..too much time...not enough trust...too much trust? I may just need to stop thinking lol.

Sorry does seem insufficient after so many years of committing...but I do suppose it is much better than no remorse. It does show the WS realizes their actions are impacting someone elses life and their actions hurt someone else.

[kat727]

Love likes to be fed and relationships are work with give and take. After a while we become complacent and just are. We stop working and take the relationship for granted.

I know in my ex's case he found an infatuation and convinced himself that since he didn't feel the 24/7 excitement with me, he didn't love me. I did love him but I do believe it was a selfish love because I did want something in return. Does everyone get to the point of unconditional love with another adult? I don't know but I would like to think so.

I am a hopeful romantic and believe that I will marry again someday, some year. lol I have learned some difficult lessons but I am still here. They say with real growth there will be pain. So which are going to let win in the end? the pain or the growth?

kat

[ClingingToHope]

I will say my STBXW said sorry twice after our final mediation session. I guess it helped. I didn't answer her though. The first time she said it I took a step towards her then stopped myself. She said it again and I just turned and headed towards the car.

I was about to say "it's OK" almost as a reflex because that's how we are with each other. But it's not OK. I've started reading "Forgiving Is a Choice," but it's slow because ... I guess I'm not ready to forgive even though I know I'm just hurting myself. I'm still wrapped up in wanting to "win."

[lolawar]

I did love him but I do believe it was a selfish love because I did want something in return. Does everyone get to the point of unconditional love with another adult? I don't know but I would like to think so.

Giving selflessly/unselfishly is tough for several reasons
1) When you don't get anything in return- you feel taken advantage of and taken for granted
2) The person you are giving selflessly/unselfishly to sometimes takes you for granted. They know they don't need to give anything. When they aren't giving anything..they sometimes stop valuing you. You come for free..no work is required...and sometimes it leads to a lack of respect.

It is all very confusing.

[kat727]

Well the hope is that you have both have evolved enough that you both are giving and loving but without the expectation in return!! Both would be thinking of the other and not of themselves. Their cups would continually be filled. It's not a game but a new way of thinking and behaving.

kat

[john210]

<<It would be wanting all the best things for the other person, even if, that meant they may not be with you.>>
By this definition, I was in love....actually, I loved unconditionally. I sometimes wonder if I ever will be able to do that again.
I heard something on the radio yesterday (sports radio actually). The host we make decisions almost every second of every day...........attitude. I have to admit that he made me think. We live through plenty of events...we decide how that affects our attitude.

[BobbiJo]

Well it's on like Donkey Kong. I've been insulted and disrespected for the last time. Well it may not actually be the last time but f@ck it I am not going to sit around and listen to it ever again.

I got 4 quick texts in a row telling me they were at the farm and Dan said "we won't eat until 8 so if you get here before then come to the farm". And he told me he needed to talk to me about two trips he was needing to schedule so he would come in or we could talk at the farm.

So I get to the farm and within two minutes Sydney is whining and fussing. Dan shoots a dirty look at me and says "She hasn't been like this the whole time you were gone." And a minute later MIL says, "Oh Sydney why do you do that when your mom is here you were so good all weekend...." And then FIL chimed in.

I said, "So you are pretty much saying she is only naughty when I am here." They start in "Oh no that's not what we meant..." I'm like Yeah that's pretty much exactly what you are saying. Nathan pipes up, "She threw herself on the ground earlier today screaming...." Love that kid.

So a second later Dan says, ok then I will bring the kids' medicine in later as though he is dismissing me. I said Oh am I leaving? (It was 7:35) He said, "Yeah..." I said OK then, you had texted that you guys were eating at 8 and we needed to discuss the trips so I didn't realize.

Instant pissy mode, says he told me they would eat at 8 if I hadn't gotten there yet...pulls out his phone shows me the text. It said "We are eating at 8." I said, "See?" He says, "We, my parents and I." I said "Oh didn't realize you were living with them again." Not that he is but I mean for real, when he said "We" I assumed he meant himself and the kids. Anyway kids went and got in car and he starts this whole thing about how I hadn't listened, again, I never listen and that is why he is DONE because he is so sick of dealing with me never listening to anything.

I cut him off and said for all the things he has done to me I never chew him out and he needs to just stop. He dismisses me and says he doesn't really care...I got pissed and said despite all the bs you have pulled the last three years I have never been a bitch to you, and he was full of sh!t for saying he was sorry for everything and then acting like this once again. He said, I am sorry and I did try to work things out. I said, really? F@cking someone while we went to counseling was trying? Then I knew it was pointless so I headed to the car to take the kids home. There was more than that but it all happened fast in a back&forth and it all amounts to the same thing...he is still a d*ck who wants to blame me for everything. He has not changed and will not change, so limiting his access to me is the smartest and safest option for me.

Oh and he threw some dumbass comment in there about why would he remarry me when he would still be legally obligated to pay me the settlement? What the hell does that have to do with anything? I hadn't said anything about getting remarried...

So anyway later when he came to deliver medicine I was very cold and distant. I told him to take the ice cream maker the kids had gotten him (3 years ago) for Father's Day it was on the porch.

I think I am going to email him that he needs to get his tools, freezer and pool table out of the gargage by the time I have my garage sale in 3 weeks, or I am selling them. Haven't sent it yet but I want to. Not his fault, totally mine that I have allowed him to cake eat but the gravy train has come to a screeching halt.

[Lotus]

That's the thing about trying to hold it in....eventually you explode. You are right. He is wrong. The kids are torture for him. That's tough.