Always for you Mila...well almost always, when you do for you for the right reason. Never for the MLCer unless it is also for the right reason.
Not because he doesn't want you too.
"The friend of my enemy is also my...enemy."
Just bear that in mind.
There might come a day when you have to re-evalute that relationship, and for you that day isn't right now. : )
For me? I am a huge advocate of not snooping. Snooping brings pain. Does a person really need to know how many condoms they went through in a night? The price of the hotel they stayed at? That it was the same one the spouse and the LBSer went to on their 3.25 year anniversary? Crap like that...
And to me...talking with the OW's H is very much like snooping when it comes down to what the MLCers are doing.
All that being said Mila...YOU seem to have a good grip on it. So my worry also seems unfounded.
Last edited by Jack_Three_Beans; 06/24/1002:51 PM. Reason: fixing the Scooby Doo speaking parts...rhut rhoo!
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
GAG - Manic...that's an interesting observation....it does feel like that sometimes. Were you speaking much throughout the "locked-out" manic period? It seems that our communication has really deteriorated for the past almost 2 months...since I stopped his cake-eating....it's like he is challenging me...fighting for control. Wow that's so good to hear that you are reconnecting with your XH...did you have a good time biking? What is the relationship like, just friendly or do you feel closer then that...just curious.
Mila, I've been meaning to reply to this post but have been busy GALing. Yes, when XH dropped the bomb he immediately began running around telling everyone we were getting D, as if he was proud of that. He actually expected me to sign papers without attorneys within the first 1-2 months post-bomb. I had never seen or heard of behavior like this before from him. He is reasonably detail-oriented so this was a significant departure for him. We had a pre-nup so I think that in XH's fog he thought it would be no big deal to D. There is a strong history of mental illness in XH's family (depression, anxiety, compulsive behavior) that I wasn't aware of when XH and I fell in love. I spent a lot of time reading about manic-depression and hypomania. I don't know if his behavior fit the diagnostic criteria, but I DO know that I have never before or since that 5 month period seen such erratic behavior.
Throughout the first 5 months we were in communication, but only to the extent that I was responding to his requests to begin splitting up our possessions. Jody (DB coach) helped me immeasurably through this process and I credit our "as good as can be expected" result to her excellent advice. I really relied on her for counsel. She said that talking to H about splitting the assets and being generous in that process would "super charge" my 180. She said that if I wanted to have good communication with H during this time that I would have to talk to him about the things he wanted to discuss --- splitting our assets. It was these discussions and my decision to change careers that formed the basis for us reaching the friendship stage eventually. H even helped me move out of my office when I changed careers (furniture, lots of books and files). I wanted him to see my 180 up close.
XH has only recently become more receptive to me (bomb was 9/08). The ping pong and bike ride were our 1st recreational outings. XH had asked me to a movie in January, 1 month post-D, but then wanted to change the time on short notice (made me feel like something better had come up --- don't know if that's true), so I set a boundary. Told him "I can't roll with you changing plans last minute right now". I think laying down that boundary was important, even though it seemed to increase the distance between us for a few months, because now I sense that XH places more importance on our get-togethers. This may apply in your situation too?
Recent interactions are a mixed bag. He was very guarded playing ping pong, but was much more friendly biking. I always have lots to talk about because of my GALing. We rode and chatted continuously for 2 1/2 hours (no R talk) --- chatted just like we used to. XH also showed me the back yard of his new house (he invited me there before the ride -- I've only seen it once before). After that we exchanged friendly e-mails back and forth for about 3 days. This is really new ground for us. Don't know where it will lead. Right now, trying to build some new fun memories. We are in the friend stage, but in my gut I can still feel that there is still a connection between us. We still trust and respect each other (we were very civil throughout the D process).
Sorry for the very long post, but hopefully there are a couple nuggets in there that will give you food for thought.
Twink, CW, M&H, Jack, SA & GAG - I'm still alive ...sorry that I didn't reply sooner...things are kind of crazy for me...and I'm GALing too...so didn't have much time to spend on the boards lately.
Twink, CW, M&H & Jack thank you so much for your opinions and input re: Talking to OW's H. I see your concerns and you are right to point out the pitfalls of talking to him...because they are there. You are the greatest...I appreciate you looking out for me.
I'm feeling detached enough to be OK with the little information he shares...it doesn't send me spinning anymore....mostly I'm just shaking my head at what those two "soul mates" (yuk) are doing.
CW & SA - thank you for checking on me ...I'm doing good... considering
GAG - Thank you for sharing your story...It helps....because I get discouraged by the lack of communication with H and feel that any connection/closeness that we still had is continuing to deteriorate....It's good to see (in your case) that it's possible to turn that around...
Update:
My GAL's - Tennis Friday Morning, stables with D, clothes shopping in the afternoon. Tennis Saturday morning, coffee with a friend in the afternoon. Sunday afternoon with girlfriends. Sunday evening watched Avatar with D & her BF.
Noticing that my weekends are filling up socially...I'm reconnecting with old friends and making new ones
H came to work on the garden again on Saturday....and I had a little “exchange” with him. What happened is that after he did some work he just made himself comfortable and was relaxing and suntanning by the pool....I was inside and I look out of the window and he is sleeping in the lounge chair. Somehow It got me angry...is that why he is coming...so he can use the yard? He told D last week how much he misses our backyard. Anyway I needed to program the sprinkler system...and asked him how to do it...I guess I was sounding a little peeved off.... a) because he was happily sun tanning there b) because I hate asking him for anything... he said “Why are you so pissed off? What did I do?” ...seriously? As for the sprinklers he said he doesn’t remember how it’s programmed that every year he just has to figure it out. So I started to do it myself, and told him to never mind, if you can figure it out, so can I. He said, well you already asked me so I can do it for you. I said that I shouldn’t have asked him. Then he got all pissed off and stormed out...just left... without saying bye....This whole exchange left me feeling bad...oh well...
Sunday H emailed me 2x, but I didn't see the emails as I was out all afternoon. So he calls me, upset that he didn't hear back from me. Wanted to come to the house to pick up something from the garage...When he got there he found me D & her BF all cozy, relaxing and watching a movie, ....we were absorbed in the movie and nobody paid any attention to him, D barely replied when he said hi to her. He was standing by the sofa for a minute and then said "bye I'm going now"...I cheerfully replied and he left. I know him and I know that he felt really left out. He texted D at midnight (again...why that late?) asking her to come to his place for dinner the next day and bring her BF. I guess he wanted to have a nice evening with them as well.
Now a bit of news that really shocked me and I must admit upset me. Just found out that H is taking OW to Europe for a 2 week vacation....besides taking time from work (again) and not being able to afford it, he is taking her to a place where we got married and lived together and introducing her to his family and staying with them...his family that was my family for 32 years.....will sleep with her in the same bed that we slept together and stay in the actual house where our wedding was hosted. I can't believe he is doing this...he is still married to me, only left (for the last time) 2 months ago and he is bringing his "girlfriend" to our special place.
On days like this I'm thinking MLC or not this guy is disgusting...he can go to he**....I don't want him back, I deserve better.
Well these are my thoughts just before going to bed...we will see if I feel the same tomorrow.
Note: I didn't cry when I found out...that tells me that I'm either pretty detached or that I just don't give a dam* about him anymore...
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
I know how much the trip has got to hurt. I'll tell you what I told Libby whose H did the same type of thing. I believe your H is chasing happiness. He's trying to recreate what he felt back then. He doesn't understand why when he has his 'soul mate' that he still isn't feeling that happiness. He's thinking I'll take her back to my happiest time and see if I can recapture how I felt back then.
He was young and had his whole life ahead of him. The passage of time and knowing he has less of it in front of him is really affecting him and he's reacting.
He doesn't understand that it's the internal things he's not dealing with that are causing his pain. Until he stops running, looks inside and figures it out, happiness will allude him.
It will be interesting to see when he return if he's even more depressed because he won't be able to recapture those feelings he had with you back then.
I wonder if someone could explain what makes them so incredibly insensitive to our feelings? Does it even occur to them how much this type of thing hurts the LBS? Do they care or even have the capacity to care? How can their disconnect to us happen so fast like someone threw a switch?
Not to mention how the ow can leave young children and just go off for two weeks. How old is she? Is she going through a MLC too, or is she just whacked? How old is her last child?
Anyway, I'm glad you're back and the reason you weren't on was because of all the great GALing you were doing. Good for you!
Hi SA, thanks...I'm still awake 3:30am....I'll be a zombie tomorrow.
You have some good points....H is chasing happiness....this thing with OW is still a fantasy....the flights back and forth to see each other...3 weeks ago they took a weekend trip to the mountains that I just found out about and now off to Europe. H is neglecting business, OW doesn't have a job at all, is cashing stocks to live off of and they are taking trips and vacations.
I wonder if this is to maintain that artificial high that they need to sustain the pretense of happiness. They don't seem to care about anything or anyone, just self-gratification. How long can they keep this up before they come down to earth and start thinking about money, jobs, children.....day to day life.
OW is definitely in MLC as well, she is 48, going through menopause and on antidepressants. Her younger kid is 8 years old.
They are both running, from their old lives, responsibilities...
And the place in Europe was always his favorite place, it always had a special meaning to him, where he was happy, young, in love...just starting his life...with me
I'm starting to think that he is not capable of empathy or understanding how hurtful this is not only to me but to his daughter. Like me she also he loves to go there, this is her auntie's place....and he is taking some strange woman there and not her.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
Detached with love or detached with a machete' you deserve your moment of sadness, and anger. I do the same thing, although so far my WH is taking her places he never would go with me.
Point being, it wasn't the place that made him happy, it was who he was with, and he can't recreate that with another person.
On the bright side, whenever my WH does something that truly upsets me, I later found out it backfired in his face and I get a good laugh. Don't know where he is going, but, think on the bright side, maybe they'll both get explosive diarrhea. Isn't that something you want to share with your new 'soul-mate'?
...sorry that I didn't reply sooner...things are kind of crazy for me...and I'm GALing too...so didn't have much time to spend on the boards lately.