Heartbroken and needing help!

[Jack_Three_Beans]

that I need to gently suggest that he plan a meal with the kids outside of me? Or does it even matter?

When he calls you can do that.

If I believe this message then I need to continue to do things that demonstrate love? Is this different from being a doormat because of the fact that I'm in control of what I do and have no expectations that he will begin to demonstrate love for me? Just wondering..

Its a good wonderment. Great question.
My take?

You realzie this is your choice and are aiming for a better...goal if you will. You WANT him in your life, but not like he currently is. Your choice to do this your..control, which makes you not a doormat.

Now, IF you were doing this...just laying down, doing this because you would take him back no matter the cost because you NEED him to be married to you because you cannot live without him...well you might as well have 'WELCOME' tattooed on your chest.

This MLC, it is NOT a GAME, but you PLAY to WIN.
MLC is NOT a DANCE, but you should LEARN the MOVES.
MLC is NOT a BATTLE, but you FIGHT to WIN the WAR.
MLC is NOT about YOU, but YOU NEED to BECOME A BETTER YOU in the time you have.

[Mach1]

Does it seem reasonable to anyone that if I go the next few days and he makes no contact with me - no checking in on me - that I need to gently suggest that he plan a meal with the kids outside of me? Or does it even matter?

I wouldn't mention it if it were me...

Sounds just a bit controlling,like he doesn't know how to care for his children. You aren't always going to agree with his parenting skills, or lack there of, but you are going to need to accept them.

There are a lot of times that I feel like this is all game playing - this decision making process. I hate it!

It is not a game, although it will play like one...

One of my daily marriage recovery emails comes from this guy named Mort Fertel (Marriage boot camp or something like that) - Today's message: I love you but I'm not in love with you" (sound familiar?)
He says a person who says this is making a distinction between 2 feelings but NEITHER of those feelings are love. He proposes that when a person says that they are saying that I CARE about you but I'm not EXCITED about you. CARING about someone is a good thing. It's reflective of CONCERN - but it's different than love. Being EXCITED about someone is also a good thing but it's different than love. Someone who says ILYBINILWY is expressing their confusion about what love really is and that's why they are having marital problems and maybe even an affair (because who are they IN LOVE with?)
Love, he says, is something we articulate in the vocabulary of ACTION - it is a verb rather than a feeling you get from another PERSON. It's an experience you receive as a result of DEEDS YOU DO for another person. And those deeds are not a secret. In other words, love is NOT a mystery. There are specific things you can do with your spouse to solve your problems and build love in your marriage. He says that as a counselor when he hears ILYBINILWY his immediate response is to ask - Can you list for me 5 ways in the last week that you've demonstrated your love for your spouse? He usually hears grunts, partial statements, etc. but none of what passes as an answer. ILYBINILWY is a cop out that basically means that I have no clue how to make a relationship last LONG-TERM so I'm exiting to get high from another short-term romance. But whoever they're IN LOVE with now will also eventually hear, ILYBINILWY

If I believe this message then I need to continue to do things that demonstrate love? Is this different from being a doormat because of the fact that I'm in control of what I do and have no expectations that he will begin to demonstrate love for me? Just wondering..

In a fully functioning relationship, with two people capable of rational abstract thought, this would be good advice.

Trying to define MLC with any kind of rationality is like trying to push a rope in a straight line....

Irish, you are at a critical stage right now with yourself....

You are starting to understand MLC and its affects on the emotional dynamics...

You are passing that point where a lot of people tend to become bitter, because you think you see the road ahead, and it screams there is no quick fix on this.

You will become discouraged, and want to say F-it, and walk away.

IF you choose this route, no one would question it at all.

Especially friends, family, and well wishers from the Bitter committee...

What you will find though.....

IF you can see past yourself, and really do the work that needs to be done on your soul...

Then you will be able to see this for the blessing and gift that is really is...

This healing that needs to be done, the end result will be growth and understanding that you never thought was possible. The ability to listen, and love with your whole heart.

You next relationship deserves this from you, with whomever it may be...

Nothing is guaranteed in life....

And it's never really over until you say it is, or they are shoveling clay on you....

Take this time for you to find out who you are when you stand up against the world....

And...how can you truly love someone with all of yourself, if you don't know who that is ?

Five ways you have shown him love......

Why don't you start with one at a time for now....

He asked for space and time.....

Or do you want to show him love the way YOU think he should feel it ?

[Truegritter]

Especially friends, family, and well wishers from the Bitter committee...

And this ain't no itty bitty committee...

Most people mean well when they tell you what to do or offer advice.

AND

IF you choose this route, no one would question it at all

Because this is what most people would do.

You are asking the right questions and you WILL find your answers.

Let me share something with you.

My Mom has actually said to me it was a mistake that I married my W.

I say: IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE THAT I MARRIED W.

I said this at the beginning of my journey because I was defensive and resentful.

I can say this now because I KNOW IT.

I know it like it is part of me.

I know it becuase it is my soul.

I no longer have self doubt about my choices.

See the difference? Same words. Said at different points in my journey.

Now I own these words. They are MINE.

I stand for ME.

Your H has done some things to hurt you.

He will continue to do things to hurt you.

You will continue to be affected by these things until you decide not to.

It IS that simple.

He has to get to the man you may eventually want to be with again by himself.

So let him.

You have an opportunity if you wish to take it.

To make a u-turn on the road to Bitterville and

Leave all the folks cheering you on down that road and

Take your own road.

Look I am going to go out on a limb here and actually give you a money back guarantee...

I Truegritter, guarantee Irish she will not regret taking her own road,

Not one bit.

I guarantee it.

And this is the prize

The ability to listen, and love with your whole heart.

I got your message Mach I mean I GOT it.

Thanks.

[irishblessings]

Thanks Jack and Mach - needed those perspectives.
I have spent a lifetime avoiding becoming bitter - I have always been one who can make the best out of any situation. Much of that ability - I thought at one time - was because of the strength I found in my marriage. It doesn't work now.
I still go back to the mirror - I don't want to see a bitter person. I don't want to hate - I don't want to be considered weak for standing for my marriage. I really don't want to be controlling! Most of the time I don't even recognize that I am being controlling. I have found myself withdrawing quite a bit from social situations lately - I'm just not ready - don't have my balance back yet.

Since his ILYBINILWY speech - I have heard him say - I am NOT staying married to you. Is that really asking for space and time? Doesn't matter - today, I am not filing for D.

[Truegritter]

I don't want to be considered weak for standing for my marriage.

You are weak until you understand why you are standing.

This may seem to you that he has done this TO you.

He has done this to HIMSELF.

Will you feel weak if some one can break you by THEIR actions?

I would and did.

This is for you Irish. No one else. You decide when its over.

I will post you a bit from my thread here about standing...

[cat04]

Irish,

Sweetie, I know this is painful, confusing, and frustrating.

Your description of yourself, reminded me of who I used to be. Of how well I really didn't know myself. I thought I was ok, because I am a caretaker too. Personally and professionally.

Then I dug deep. Not because I really wanted to, but because I realized that no one, and I mean NO ONE, was gonna take care of me.

Except me. I had to do it. And the only way to start was to figure out who me was. Outside of the caretaker role.

Right now, this does feel like a game, but it isn't.

It is a battle.

A battle to save Irish.

And you are your own opponent.

He could come home right now, and it would all be pretend.

Family functions will feel the same way.

What you read, is an interesting theory. It is just a theory.

If it strikes a cord within you, then consider it.

But remember, that really is for NORMAL situations, not MLC.

None of this feels like the right thing to do at the beginning. Then, it starts to become a part of you. And you realize, this is how it should have been.

It is up to you.

Do you want to be in control of ypurself and your own life, or do you want to settle?

For less than the best?

From yourself and for yourself...

Your choice...

[Truegritter]

Irish here ya go...this is what I posted on my thread when I answered my own questions about this:

IMO standing is an essential part of the healing process of the LBS. You will constantly questions this throughout. At least I have up to this point.

You will ask yourself questions like "WTF am I doing this for this person?"

In the beginning we want answers.

Why did this happen?

How could they do this?
Who am I?
What do I believe in?
What do my vows mean to me?
Why do I hurt?

And the BIG ONE...

What is it about ME that made them leave?

IMO you don't get answers unless you choose to take the hard road, STAND, and go on the journey.

At first you tend to look at it as a quid pro quo- I am willing to do this for a while until I see some progress. IOW you do it EXPECTING some outcome ...

As time goes on and your expectations aren't met you question again...

It is all part to of the journey. You may even have trouble articulating why you are doing this to other people or yourself.

Then you start to look inside....

Then you start to see who YOU are...

Then you realize that this is part of YOU

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU.

[PEI]

Irish honey, I feel for you, oh God do I ever.

You have the best of the best posting to you here and they speak real, hard, honest, sweet truth.

This isn't easy. And I don't mean the "working on your marriage" part - I mean the "working on you" part. Don't beat yourself up, this takes TIME and the journey starts and stops many times while you build momentum. Grit is right ... all the stages of the process are necessary for the LBS to move into the light ... and they happen faster for some than others.

I don't know if you've read my thread or not, but if you're looking for a good way to kill some time (ok, ok .... I'm long winded, a LOT of time) then click on the links in my signature and have a read through.

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU.

^^^ yep ... there's the money shot ...

To steal a quote from Coach .... You can handle it ...

Peace
PEI

[irishblessings]

Cat and TG - thank you for your thoughts and experiences. They are VERY helpful. I am trying to wrap myself around all of this. This profound soul searching required to keep my head above water - to keep breathing - is often times leaving me empty. I realize that I have not allowed myself or respected myself enough to establish a sense of self. I've completely avoided that.
When faced with H's infidelity the first time - I found a part of myself that I liked. I found I had strength to forgive / to accept my contributions to the problems in the marriage / the ability to recognize that a lifetime of good is not erased by a handful of bad. I never thought I would have the fortitude to handle it that way - I always thought it would be a deal-breaker.
This situation though is different. It is a culmination of lies, deceptions, insidious acts that I find myself trying to normalize and the fact is I have no control over any of it. H does not want me in his life as anything but a friend and keeper of the family. So it's not a question of me being able to "handle" it - it's not an option. It's a question of me being able to create something for myself and my kids that is as loving, honest, "clean" as possible - because that's what I need and what I believe is what my kids need in order to continue thriving.
I have a couple of logistical questions:
1. What do I say to people who ask what is going on? That H left or that WE separated? I don't know how to handle this. He still has not told a soul except one of his brothers.
2. Is it "normal" when going through this to "exit" the social scene for a while? I don't feel secure enough that I won't break down in public. Somedays at work I have to close my door or my secretary will redirect people so that I can regain my composure.
3. I am still having trouble determining what to tell my kids. The older ones are smart enough to ask questions because nothing they are hearing makes any sense. I am struggling with what the "truth" of my situation really is: MLC and Addiction? MLC? Addiction? I've given the girls some general stuff to read about MLC and they can see some of their dad's behavior in it - but the addiction side would be new to them. Do I share the addiction side with them? What if they find themselves in addictive modes / do they need to know that it is in the family? They know about my father's and brother and sister's addictions.
I hope I'm not sounding like an idiot! It's more of a stream of consciousness type of ruminating. Basically - I don't know what I'm doing! But I'm at least trying to pull myself together!

[Twink]

1. What do I say to people who ask what is going on? That H left or that WE separated?

I usually say that we are separated. If they say they're sorry to hear that -- and most do -- I say that I am, too, sometimes adding that it was not my decision (since H has told some of his friends that it was his decision). If they probe for more, the most I say is that it looks like a MLC to me.

2. Is it "normal" when going through this to "exit" the social scene for a while? I don't feel secure enough that I won't break down in public.

Very normal. I STILL, after more than 18 months, choose carefully where I go and when. I'm no longer fearful of running into friends with questions, but I do NOT want to run into H with OW. I don't trust myself with that situation yet, but I'm getting there.

3. I am still having trouble determining what to tell my kids.

My grown Ds knew immediately because H emailed them when he left. I think I would just answer their questions as they come up, honestly, but with as much compassion and forgiveness as you can muster. My Ds know that I would never lie to them, and they asked some very pointed questions that were difficult to answer in the way I'm suggesting, but I did my best.

Hang in there, Irish. You're really doing very well. It does get easier. Really.

(((Irish)))