No going back....

[pie]

Also on the subject of an A - it is very possible that he's having an online affair for example he takes time off work , and sits at his apartment, and I can see he is online the whole time. I think it might be one of the clients he meets up with in London every couple of months. One evening pre speech , I walked into the bedroom, and he quickly closed his laptop, he said that he felt bad speaking to her (london lady) because she show interest in his hobby - which I never did (even though I bought him a $2500 bike last year :()

I dont know what one should do about affairs. Ask or leave it? He would deny it flat out, and theres no way I could prove it - shes overseas, and I have no access to his phone or PC

[cat04]

Pie,

The truth about affairs, is that they often happen in MLC.

You can ask, but the chances of you getting a truthful answer, are slim to none. Even when confronted with evidence of an affair, MLCer's will try to lie or at the very least minimize it.

Worrying about it right now, puts your focus on him and his behaviors.

Focus should be on the only person you can control and that is you.

Read, learn, post. You are getting some good advice and great perspective.

[Truegritter]

Hello Pie

Also on the subject of an A - it is very possible that he's having an online affair for example he takes time off work , and sits at his apartment, and I can see he is online the whole time.

It is very possible and (most of the time) where there is smoke there is fire.

I am with Cat on this one but only you can say if you really need to know.

Let me walk you through that scenario.

You obssess about whether H is having A.

You get some indication your suspicion is true.

Confront H.

H says You're wrong if I am guilty of anything it's having an inappropriate conversation

Truth is you'll never know since you aren't in the room when the dirty deed is committed.

Still not satisfied? You'll snoop more if you can.

You'll obsess about it.

Feel like it is all your fault.

Feel like sh!t

Your self esteem plummets

You question your own desirability.

You'll probably throw up multiple times

You'll wake up at 4:32 a.m. every morning for about a month and won't go back to sleep.

You'll figure out this is all very unhealthy for you.

You'll realize that you can't control any of this.

You'll realize that what H did was something he did to himslef and NOT you.

You begin to realize you have to detach.

You'll finally be in a place to gain perspective that you did have something to do with the demise of your M

You'll figure out that THAT in no way justifies H having A.

You'll start to look inside and begin to take care of the person most deserving of all the attention you wasted on H's affair.

That person is YOU.

So why not skip all this crap and just focus on you?

Please.

Or

Experience is also a good teacher.

No matter what I say you will do what you have to do and that's ok too.

My fingers hurt from typing...

Oh yeah and welcome to best worst place to be ...

Bye Pie

for now...

[BeingMe]

I don't get the feeling that you are obsessing about the possible A, so I think you are doing great. I only mentioned it because I want you to be prepared for the possibility. So many on here, including myself, denied that there was one because the H's or W's were saying there wasn't one in the beginning ... "they just want to be free for no reason other than they are unhappy in the M and have been for a long time ... years even, but only just got around to letting us know now." Quite a shock then to learn they were lying which is a huge symptom of MLC. If their mouths are moving, it is a rare thing for the truth to be coming out of it.

I am not sure what more you could do. Perhaps start refusing invitations? Obviously, what you are doing isn't working unless that's why he is nice on occasion. You could think of shaking things up a bit? Start insisting on regular outings for S4 instead of the sporadic ones he is doing now. Or, you could live with the status quo for awhile and see what happens in a few months.

Take care.

[BeingMe]

So I'm finding myself again, slowly, and it feels nice, like welcoming a soul home, and appologising for having left it out in the cold for a while to tend to someone elses needs.

I love this line. So true for so many of us on this bb.

I'm also worried that I'm 'picking out' bad things about him, to help me to detach from him, and that all the bad things I 'pick on' are making me think that maybe I'll be better off. But what about the good things, I'm scared to think of them now, because I'm scared they'll interfere with detachment..you know? So at the moment my strange stratedgy of thinking of the bad stuff is helping detach.

Perhaps you are over-thinking this. Just do what you need to do in order for you to detach. Anger does work, IMHO. You have a right to be angry ... he left you and your S4 ... WTH! If that doesn't make a person angry, then I don't know what would. He's being selfish, but then he always was, by the sounds of it.

I wouldn't worry about whether it's MLC or WAH for now. Either case, you should take care of YOU now. Please, also ensure your financial safety, that you are not responsible for any debts (MLCers just love to spend and it looks like your H is a spender to begin with).

It's hard to tell MLC or no, especially in the beginning. But, your gut is telling you that that could be the case, so I would follow it. Treat it as such, for now, until you have cause to change it.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

What you think a MLC?

No one here is a professional pie.

That REALLY is for you to determine, and the label is for you as wel to use in how you determine how you are going to do this. Check out the resources and see if he fits into an MLC.

[hoosiermama]

I know its me I have to focus on now, and I'm doing pretty well I think, have gone from thinking it was all my fault, and then to , it wasnt all my fault, to - why did I put up with some of that stuff - thatsnot me - wheres me gone?

So I'm finding myself again, slowly, and it feels nice, like welcoming a soul home, and appologising for having left it out in the cold for a while to tend to someone elses needs .

I think you will find, pie, that this is the crux of the whole matter in the end. no matter how things end up with your marriage, the one thing you can control is how you take care of you. and this process can transform you, if you let it--again, regardless of the outcome of your marriage. no one wants to hear this in the beginning; they only want their marriage, their life back. Been there, done that. but you can get something even better, either way--you can get your self back. and with that you get an entirely new perspective; for those of us who have back-burnered ourselves for the sake of our marriages and our spouses, we learn to see again with our own eyes. you already have a sense of that, and you have expressed it beautifully. keep following that intuition and it will lead you home.

[Grace_O]

Pie,

My rule of thumb is to never ask a question I don't want the answer to.

If you work on taking care of yourself, your plate will be full.

HUGS

[pie]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions I'm having a good day, although exhausted!! Had S4s bday party this morning, H came too, insisted on coming, its a bit awkward obviously because some of my friends there know the situation, I did well at setting aside the discomfort and rather enjoying the time there with the other moms & friends and watching S have a BALL.

I put H on camera duty so as not to feel like a spare wheel, didnt want him to feel uncomfortable.
He didnt seem to be, and if he was, he was hiding it well. All in all it was a good party, H seemed relaxed by the end of it, all smiles and laughs. Me too.

We are at the stage where we are getting comfortable-ish around eachother, but I wonder if we are both 'putting it on'? That feels weird?I still feel a little apprehensive, closed off, because we havn't spoken about emotions in about 6 months(no R talk)
But I feel strange 'pretending' nothing happened. Acting 'AS IF'.
Just weird. If you were looking at us from the outside you'd swear that nothing happened , and we got on well. I suppose I just feel a bit of a fraud, but I know thats the way I'm supposed to be acting. As if his leaving was no big deal.

I do however KNOW I'll be just dandy on my own without him , this I feel in my heart, which is such a relief.

But still I feel weird The urge to ignore him completely and show him the pain he caused me can be overwhelming.

And I dont know if my 'as iffing' is all in vein. He's always said he hopes we can still be friends, and I feel like he feels thats just what he's getting. Not that I want to be mean to him. Am I making ANY sense at all.

Whats progress and whats not?

[Truegritter]

The urge to ignore him completely and show him the pain he caused me can be overwhelming.

As we speak of DBing and acting "as if" 180's etc. IMO you should not look at these as tactics.

They are more tools.

Tools to help you stop the chaos that has become your M so that YOU can get to a healthy place.

And I dont know if my 'as iffing' is all in vein.

It will be if you are focusing on your H.

Again this is not a tactic.

Focus on YOU and make real changes for you which then gives your M a chance.

He's always said he hopes we can still be friends, and I feel like he feels thats just what he's getting. Not that I want to be mean to him.

What are you getting?

Pie the focus needs to turn back to you. If being "friends" with him makes that process difficult then you may not want to be that way for a while.

This is the detachment process and it is for you and you only.

It is not to manipulate H

Or punish H.

Or some magical silver bullet that will save your M.

Welcome that old soul, YOU back into your life.

Don't let anything get in your way.