I think if you have a look at teh affairs on this board you will find a spread between 60 and 90... so yes I agree its quite a spread, but we seem to agree on the principle...
And if both parties in the affair are married? Then who is the predator and who's being taken advantage of?
Each case is different, you have your yard sticks :
a. Who TRIES to end it b. WHo is making most of the phone calls and meetings? c. Who is tryign to communicat with their spouse and who is abusing their spouse? d. Who is experiencing other problems in their life (death of loved one, miscarriage, loss of job, etc?)
These factors affect the accountability in my opinion
Look at Elvencat's thread, the OW in her thread is outright MOCKING her on facebook and even in public... attacking her verbally and enjoying how much pain she's putting Elvencat through...
Compare that to say the OM in TWolf's household situation... that OM won't talk to TWolf at all..he AVOIDS him...
Some OP are just worse than others and that measn accountability shifts...
SOme people dont' care about teh damage they do and some even ENJOY IT... Some make efforts to be an adult, and others don't even WANT to be an adult.. you can't hold them all equally accountable...
H texted this AM to ask if I could "bring our daugther back just for the weekend." I said that no, he could meet me halfway or fly up and stay in a hotel. He gave me quite a bit of attitute and even suggested we meet halfway at 11pm at night so as not to mess up his work schedule. I of course said no way - and he then launched into a name-calling thing where he claimed I was "selfish" and "acting like a child." I stopped responding at that point. The lawyer did tell me to allow him to see my daugher, but I don't have to respond to BS texts.
Hours later he texted back with a more sensible plan where he is going to visit with daugher when he has a bit more time off work. Part of me HATES to give him this but at the same time my daughter misses home and her daddy, and the lawyer advised me to share her with him.
Intel confirms that he is staying at our home while I'm gone - he's ordered pizza there two nights in a row now. When he gets to see my daughter, he wants me to stay with my mom so that he can spend time with her at our house. I said "we'll see - not sure if I will be home or gone at that point and if I am home you can take her to your mom's."
I am having a really hard time navigating the lawyer's advice to give him contact with my daugher and the online advice here to go truly dark.
Also, would love advice about how to share her - when she spends time with my H, should I let him have her at house and be gone myself, or should I go sit in my house to make sure he understands what it's like to be a divorced dad. That will be a tough time for me sitting there alone - not enough friends/family in the area where we live to keep myself occupied and busy. Complicating the situation is that fact that there are a ton of my daughter's friends on the stree where we live and my daughter will not want to leave there - she is 4.5 and loves to play with neighbor friends all day.
One other thing on my radar: think I need to reach out to my inlaws (who don't support H's decisions) and let them know about why I have stayed. I know they supported me a week ago but my H could be running negative PR about me not bringing my daughter home. Don't think many people would support me using her like a "pawn", and while I don't think that's what I'm doing, it would be easy for my H to spin it like that.
1. YOu need to find a good friend or family member who is marriage friend to act as a mediator.. that friend can allow your H to see your Daughter and you don't have to be exposed to him at all... This also presses the attachment fix higher as well.
2. You don't need to talk to him at all if you are with friends or family... let him send messages through THEM... Did you read the protection phase ebook I posted earlier?
3. Long term you may haev to go home yes... But for a few weeks you can leave H sweat.. I don't reccomend even talking to him.. let him contact you through an intermediary... it will reduce your tension AND put a lot of pressure on him which is what you want.. you want him in a panic and sweating bullets. Don't use phone or text message, strictly email him... ONLY email.. no phone or texts. And you can always get your friend or family member to screen the email for abuse first... whcih again is something I reccomend.
4. Start putting together a plan of how you want to attack this long term... Family Therapy, a Transparency Contract, Living arrangements etc... just write down how YOU want things to proceed long term here to deal with the situation. I assume he hasn't agreed to end the affair yet?
I am having a really hard time navigating the lawyer's advice to give him contact with my daugher and the online advice here to go truly dark.
Mel,
No one said to "go dark" with your DAUGHTER and her father. The idea is for YOU to go dark with your husband.
I'm a little concerned that you only want to allow your daughter to see her father inasmuch as your lawyer thinks it's a good idea. It's a good idea PERIOD for her to have a good, ongoing relationship with him, regardless of what happens with you guys and your marriage.
Melody, I have been wanting to post for some time but have been holding back. My advice is going to run contrary to Allen 's strategy. I don't think a hard line and exposing to everyone always works, especially for men.
I need to ask, what is your goal in the situation? You used Newmama's advise (which is why I didn't post at first-great advice) and it was working. You gave him an ultimatum and he left for a time. He came back, apologizing and ready to work on things. Your response was to leave? Believe me, I get that you need some space to think about what's best for you, but at this point continuing to stay away is hurting your chances of saving your M. Men need the connection with the woman they love.
He said it was over. Can you verify that? Have you asked your neighbor if OW has been there while you're gone? Maybe your SIL will do some detective work for you since his family seems supportive.
Pup - I definitely don't want my daughter not to have a relationship with her father - I was simply trying to protect myself. I was just frustrated because facilitating the contact with daughter involves communicating with him and was hampering my attempts to go dark.
Allen - I couldn't read the protection phase document you sent - the link isn't working on my computer. I went to Penny Tupy's site to try and find it, but couldn't.
Bluestar - Your story is inspiring - just looked at it. I wouldn't say my H came back wanting to work on things. He wanted to talk and "lay everything out on the table" - I think he was trying to justify what he did. Never said he wanted to work things out. More sorry he got caught at this point . . . though I guess I didn't take the time to fully hear him out. I was so stressed and upset at that point that I didn't think I could take him telly me he didn't love me anymore.
a. For the doc just leave your email here and I will send to your email then b. Facilitation of father -daugther contact does NOT involve you communicating with him at ALL.. you get ANOTHER family member or freind to do it FOR YOU
1)You don't really know what's going on with him or what he wants to do. You can't go dark yet. IMO, going dark is when they've made it clear that they intend to carry on the A and don't care about the M. You're not there yet.
2)You've been away over a week now. That's long enough for "shaking him up" and it seems that it worked somewhat. Any longer and he could decide that YOU don't want the M since you haven't told him otherwise. He could harden his position that things won't work and make DB much more difficult.
Also, you need to consider your position in the event of a D sometime down the road. He can start to make a case that you've abandoned him at some point and your right to the martial home becomes weaker.
3)I would go home soon. Work on your 180's and GAL. Instead of him getting to go out when the baby is asleep, you find some things to do and make daddy stay home. I always recommend getting Dr Phil's Relationship Rescue. It really helps communication issues and focusing on yourself.
If you find out the A is not over, we'll help with the "going dark" part. But, I would do it from your own home. It's a stronger position.
You will find that you have more strength than you have ever known. Keep reading and posting here. We may have different ways of getting there but we all want you to have a happy ending.
