Is "Snooping" Bad?

[gman]

"'Privacy' is closing the door when you go to the bathroom. 'Secrets' are keeping things from your spouse, and they have no place in a marriage."

this one is going into my personal archives for later use if necessary.

[frauvonfunf(FVF)]

This is my first post anywhere. I have been lurking a long time even before registering and haven't had the nerve to post. Funny, even before I checked in here today I had decided that I would post to ask advice on a "snooping" issue. This thread just reinforced that I need to! It's a sign!

I am not going to go into details on my sitch as my H hangs out on this forum (different board tho) and I do not want to compromise anything.

I will say he has had affairs both EA/PA, paid for sex (I've been tested, I'm clean), used porn, and numerous other things. He's a sneaky, secretive cheater. We are seeing a FT/ST and he is also seeing IC. He does want the marriage, so he says.

My question today is about keyloggers. I believe he is still having contact with an (online)EA partner. Now I know that the rational thing is to request passwords and complete transparency. I get that. However, we are talking about the king of sneakiness here. If he were to share the passwords, he would just go off and create another e-mail account without my knowledge, and start all over. Sad to say, but that is how he is. Every time I have confronted him about physical evidence I have discovered it just makes him better at hiding.

I want to install a keylogger. Don't have a lot of $ to spend. But mostly, I am not tech savvy. HE is VERY tech savvy. He is not in any type of computer industry job, but he could be if he so desired. I am afraid with his accumen he will somehow discover it. Can anyone here explain exactly how hidden these things are? Could he discover it by going thru the registry?

TIA for any help/advice. I'm sorry to be here. I wish I weren't!
FVF

[Puppy Dog Tails]

eBlaster, from what I understand, is virtually undetectable, and he probably won't even try to do any deep registry checking if he thinks YOU are not tech-savvy. It's less than $100, and works quite well.

There are also lower-priced, and even free ones out there, but I'm not sure how hidden they are.

I do tend to agree with you, however, based on what you've told us about your husband -- he'll probably just create another account. But even so, I DO think you need to ask for (demand?) full transparency as part of your family therapy, if nothing else than for a strong moral stand for your marriage. If he wants to break that, by secretly creating other accounts, that's his choice.

With a history of past infidelity, I always suggest having at least ONE piece of intel in place that is unknown to the formerly-cheating partner: either a keylogger, or a voice-activated recorder, or a GPS.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

btw, my GPS solution was also cheap:

My GPS system:

Yep -- about a $40, pay-as-you-go BoostMobile phone, with all of its sounds turned off (and a little piece of black electrical tape over its speaker, just in case), charged up and placed into my son's baseball gear bag (it was offseason) in the trunk of her car.

You can buy an app from BoostMobile called "MapQuest Find Me" for about five bucks per month, and then just add minutes as you need them (you'll hardly need them at all, since you won't be calling the phone or making any calls with it). BINGO -- a sub-$50 GSP unit.

The program is really good. It worked about 90-95% of the time, although I did have to take the phone out and re-charge it every couple of nights, and then get it back into the trunk without my wife catching me. Then I just logged on to a secure website, and I could "see" where her car was (this was legal, as the car was in my name and I paid for it). You can even set e-mail "alerts" when the phone comes within "X" distance of any predetermined location, so, for example, when her car was within 100 yards of OM's house, I'd get an e-mail.

Saves your time and worry with constant snooping, and the screen-shots make GREAT stocking-stuffers for your attorney

[frauvonfunf(FVF)]

he probably won't even try to do any deep registry checking if he thinks YOU are not tech-savvy.

Good point, hadn't thought about it that way.

Yep, FT has told me to demand passwords,etc. Just haven't had the guts to do it. I have been guilty of being a doormat. But I think the opportunity for this convo is coming up soon.

thanks for the info. I will check it out now!

FVF

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Here's another distinction -- about "ultimatums" vs. "boundaries" -- that may help you summon the courage, FVF:

The best way I can answer that is that if you make it about HIM, they will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."

If you make them about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."

Example:

"I forbid you to see OW" = CONTROLLING

"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY

"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING

"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your recent affair, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting her by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY

"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING

"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY

Make sense?

It's also HOW you say it. It should come across as something you HATE to have to even ASK for, and that you'll COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if he doesn't feel he can do it, but hey -- this is what I need right now. Let me know."

Puppy


P.S. Look up pearharbor's old posts, for a great example of a woman successfully (and strongly) positioning this to her partner.

[Quicksilver264]

On the "con" side, all I can come up with is:

1. If you don't control your emotions, you may not be able to handle it.

I will second this to an absolute T. If you have the ability to get outstanding intel, then you are going to most definitely see things that you just might not believe.

There is going to be a point where your stomach drops so low and hard, you think you really will throw up right there.

Depending on just how good of an intel job you have going, you may be able to actually see things in real time on a home computer on a network. You are not going to like it as you watch a Facebook chat turn to a sex chat and talking about how to setup webcams.

But having outstanding intel is absolutely KEY. Knowing why they are going to MC, what they are REALLY saying to friends, what they REALLY are thinking, just makes it ALOT easier.

When you know what is going on with them, you can use some of their own words in a rephrased manner ect.

Probably the BEST thing is to be able to play the "poker" game. Where YOU KNOW THEIR HAND, but they don't know yours. You know where limits are and what truth is. This can absolutely blow their mind, and let you do things that you otherwise wouldn't. Having that depth of CONFIDENCE is so powerful. It is just like knowing the opposing football team's signals.

Another absolute perk is that when something naughty or that you don't like is about to start, you can throw a whole bucket of wrenches in the works. Nothing like sending a computer reboot command or blocking ALL network access when she is about to try and start something. Or you can find something to talk to them about to absolutely kill the mood.

Or when you go out for a night on the town, set your router to block ALL NETWORK traffic and tell them "The internet is down, I called (your provider) and they will send someone out tomorrow". Then they have to sit home with no real way to contact while you are out having lots of fun. Then you get home just a littler later than usual with a really pleasant smile and ask "Hey did the internet ever get working again? I need to send an email".

But you need guts like steel. And you will need alone time to cry, shout, and let all that emotion out while they are not there. You may have good intel, but you will pay an emotional price for it.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I like your style.

My personal favorite dynamic is the "They don't know what you know, and what you DON'T know," and the ramnifications of that. They have to therefore assume you know EVERYTHING!!!

ex.: my voice-activated recorder turned up my wife and OM ranting, after I had given her a "I know all about you and _____" confrontation. So my wife says on the recording, "I mean, unless he was actually IN THE BUSHES, OUTSIDE OF NED'S WINDOW, how could he know anything for sure???"

Thank you, W, for providing me with the location of the hook-up house, where I was later easily able to bust them. Infidelitus interruptus!! It's a beautiful thing.

Puppy

[Allen A]

If your H is going to lie to his family therapist FVF I think that's a dealbreaker right there... Get your INTEL as suggested and share with the FT privately...

Unless the FT is prepared to work with your H as an addict and assume he's lying from the get go its pointless to even invite him to FT...

And being a doormat is just another word for enabler...

[CT Yank]

Yes, snooping is worth it. Some of the things I found with the keylogger were painful but at least I had the truth. Fear of the unknown was worse for me than dealing with the the painful reality. Plus I was able to derail some potential hookups when there was still an OM involved. Since I'm in a no fault state not sure how much the info will help me legally though.