I dont know how many times or different ways I can say this. it WASNT MCing !!!
Quote:
Like I said before, even our joint counselor ( who really is doing MC for us , even if the WAW doesnt realize it ) has observed more then once that we care very deeply about each other.
I guess I am wondering how good of an idea it is to use a neighbor as a facilitator to better communication. You said your neighbor knows you both, has been involved in the lives of your children and so on. IMO that is not a neutral third party. She may have a degree in psychology but IMO when there is an affair and all these complex particulars you really do need somebody very well trained. Plus, you are airing an awful lot of your business to a neighbor.
It doesn't matter what is in your W's mind. If she chooses to not continue the R the two of you share then there is no more "us". You establish boundaries using that mindset. What she chooses to think about "us" is not really relevant IMO.
I dont know how many times or different ways I can say this. it WASNT MCing !!!
Quote:
Like I said before, even our joint counselor ( who really is doing MC for us , even if the WAW doesnt realize it ) has observed more then once that we care very deeply about each other.
Yeah but I'm hooked on the drama. ARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Why can't everyone do it my waaaaaaaaaaaaaYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyy???????? Don't let facts ruin a good argument, I can see it in your eyes you reeaallllyy realllyyyy believe deep down I am not pursuing.
Enough said.
sarcasm intended
drop the rope, detach, agree with your wife, get off the rollercoaster, forget about her and do something great for yourself, stop beating your head against the wall, try something different, stop pursuing, GAL
the drama is not attractive to your wife, it's counterproductive, it's not manly, it doesn't work
come on let's go get a beer, I'm buying.
Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I dont know how many times or different ways I can say this. it WASNT MCing !!!
Quote:
Like I said before, even our joint counselor ( who really is doing MC for us , even if the WAW doesnt realize it ) has observed more then once that we care very deeply about each other.
Yeah but I'm hooked on the drama. ARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Why can't everyone do it my waaaaaaaaaaaaaYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyy???????? Don't let facts ruin a good argument, I can see it in your eyes you reeaallllyy realllyyyy believe deep down I am not pursuing.
Enough said.
sarcasm intended
drop the rope, detach, agree with your wife, get off the rollercoaster, forget about her and do something great for yourself, stop beating your head against the wall, try something different, stop pursuing, GAL
the drama is not attractive to your wife, it's counterproductive, it's not manly, it doesn't work
come on let's go get a beer, I'm buying.
Cheers Coach
God Coach you have NO idea how much I wish you actually were close enough to take you up on the offer of a beer!!!
I've come to the conclusion there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with WAW. I dont mean that sarcastically, I sincerely mean it out of concern. This is WAY beyond the normal " fog" or WAS Syndrome. Even a relative commented that they have NEVER seen her act like this and are concerned, but dont know how or cant get through to her that something is wrong. I KNOW she is not an " evil " person, I honestly believe she doesnt realize what she is doing. Today she screamed at me that she wanted to " beat my ass " in front of our daughter (almost 6 ) she would NEVER have done that if she was thinking clearly.
She knows the twins (15) from her and the ex have significant emotional problems as a result of WAW previous relationship. I simply CANNOT believe that she would knowingly and willingly put DD through anything like that intentionally. She really is acting "possessed" and doesnt seem to even be able to stop herself.
I also realize the anger is a manifestation of guilt. Since Im DBing like crazy and validating everything she says, she's royaly pissed that Im taking away her ammunition to walk with a clean conscience. She said today that " you havent been there for DD for 5 years !! And NOW all of a sudden you want to be ??"
She seems to have convinced herself that I would have or should have just let her and the kids walk away, inspite of all of my calm validation, she is taking my changes NOT as a sincere wakeup call and determination to do everything I should have been, but as nothing more then an attempt to " screw her " somehow out of her "plan"
I KNOW she will NOT get or ask for ANY help for herself, she NEVER has. But she lies and fakes so well there doesnt seem to be a single person that can or will "shake her " and say " Look at what your doing !!!" Which only feeds into her denial. I dont even know what damage has been done to DD so far, and I can only thank god that our son is so little ( 8 mos) that he wont be effected by whats going on right now.
Im starting to think I made a big mistake agreeing to her having primary custody during the school year. Having her scream the things and threats towards me as she has done in front of DD is certainly NOT my definition of a " good mother "
Wow. Today was interesting. Couldnt sleep much after the explosion yesterday, mulling over lots of things, so after tossing and turning for the better part of an hour, I finally got up around 6:30, which is amazing for me to do on a weekend!
Started around the house gathering stuff and went over to my new place to clean, move new fridge in, wipe it out and disenfect, picked up used dishwasher, pressure washed front of house, met a buddy that does remodeling work to see what he could help out with ( he's also on the verge of a relationship breakup after 9 years )he was gonna talk to his Dad about a whole kitchens worth of cabinetry they have in their basement that he might be able to give me for free.
Got a call from the WAW around 2pm and she was talking completely NORMAL! As if she hadnt even had the screaming, ranting out burst towards me just 24 hours earlier. Polite, "soft" , please and thank you,etc. No apology though, but I'll take what I can get. She asked me to pick up the kids tonite instead of her dropping them off as originally planned, said she didnt feel good and supposedly had a seizure last night.
Now she's back to wanting to talk again, admitted she would appreciate my help but is scared Im going to screw her somehow, asked me to take our two kids an extra week in the beginning of July so she can co ordinate having our two kids and their two kids on the same every other week schedule.
Agreed to attend DD's counseling sessions.
Its funny cause I had been thinking all day about a theory that seems to fit the situation VERY WELL, one suggested by her uncle.
I dont know if I'll EVER learn the truth though it would be nice. But I think whats happened is we were having our problems to be sure and alot of them were caused by me, so she starts bending the EX's ear about [censored], how frustrated and unhappy she is, etc sometime back in March or early April. As predicted he smelled the vulnerability a mile away and concocted a plan, either on his own or in colusion with his Mother to agree that they would regain custody of their twins if they reunited. Then I got struck with a World Class case of Dumb Guy Disease and said something really stupid that drove her over the edge and right to him. I dont think she ever really thouhgt I would fight for the kids and for our family.
She convinced herself somehow that because of my withdrawl I really didnt "want" the kids or a family ( my read not her words, but she did say something similar) and thought she would jump ship and I would walk. When she realized I was not only changing but at the very least she would have to share custody, it tossed a huge monkey wrench in her carefully laid fantasy and pissed her off, for many different reasons. Some valid, many irrational.
Thus started the campaign of lashing out, false allegations, etc. ANYTHING to try to drive me away, get me out of the picture, assuage her guilt, whatever, while playing the part of a "hurt but desiring friendship WAW"
This both the worst scenario I can think of and in someways a good one. Worst in that I have NO doubt she would go to almost any lengths, without necessarily thinking of the consequences, including psych damage to DD, to be reunited with her twins. If my theory is correct, a lot of things suddenly snap into focus. But I seriously doubt no matter what happens she will NOT remove herself from that situation and return to our family as long as the twins are there, at least until they turn 18 in 3 years. But who knows, she might suprise me. He cant be making all that much if she needs my help to insure her truck, and she asked me to keep her cell phone on.
Somewhat positive only in that as I concluded a while ago, once the twins are 18, WAW and EX really have nothing keeping them together, while WAW and I will be parents to a 9 year old and a 3 year old.
Funny, I was thinking earlier of coming to the board and asking for opinions about an idea I had to possibly speak to him 1 on 1, politely of course, but pointing out that for whatever reasons, things just didnt work out for them and as a result his daughters have significant mental issues that they get counseling for, pointing out that he now had a wonderful opportunity to make sure that 2 more innocent children ( including a baby ) didnt suffer the same damage that his kids did, maybe trying to appeal to a sense of " duty " or doing the right thing or atonement or something ?? And also pointing out that NO MATTER WHAT, I would NEVER stop fighting to restore my family, maybe plant a seed of doubt in his mind, keep him wondering about things we talk about, get the tension level up for him, etc ?
NO idea how it would be received though, either by him and most certainly by WAW. I mean, Im not the least bit afraid of the guy. He's a little taller then me, but I have at least 20lbs on him and a smattering of MMA skills. I would have NO problem absolutley destroying him without mercy if he came at me. Then again, I could always let him take his shots and then laugh when he was arrested for assault.
She's still talking about the kids going to school from that location in the fall though, which says something about her current mindset, but another good little tidbit I discovered is we both live in the same school district, which should make things easier for me to argue for letting DD stay at my place more among other things.
I think right now Im really hoping that attending DD's counseling sessions will help to start draw WAW out, acknowledge things and maybe take babysteps towards starting over. Still gonna be a LONG haul though, a year at least Im guessing. But if things go smoothly over the summer ( as smooth as they can given the circumstances that is ) DS birthday is Ooct 15th, then Halloween , which she already said we would do together. Right after that theres a place one State over that we've been past a million times , National Christmas Museum and Store or something like that ( WAW is a certified Xmas junky ) so I had already been planning if things were going well to invite her to a day trip to it, on me. Im fairly confident if things are ok then that she will be not able to resist the offer. I doubt that one thing will set the hook so to speak, but hopefully she'll at least be nibbling on the bait by then.
If things are starting to look promising over the winter or maybe even Spring, I've been working out a plan and finances to go BIG TIME on a trip for the kids that will be nearly impossible for her to resist ( somewhere she's always wanted to go). If the trip happens the way I've envisioned it and things are really going well, I plan on romancing the hell out of her and popping " the question" in a way that should literaly be irresistable to her. Of course if she says yes ( every body part crossed ) then an IMMEDIATE DIVORCE from OM is required !!!
Hearing from ALOT of people that time is working against me, ESPECIALLY with the fact that she is with her EX. Also hearing that once their relationship goes physical ( if it hasnt already) that that is IT for us, because she will have " given herself " to him. Then I hear that the majority of rebound relationships dont work, something I've heard before.
Then I hear and see people on this site that sometimes have to go a year or more, often times with infidelity included in the process and STILL manage to reconcile their R's.
Confused Today Part II............... ran out of editing time on the original post.
Yesterday she told me she would appreciate whatever help I could offer her , such as getting her truck insured, keeping her cell turned on, etc. We dont have anything more then an informal verbal agreement regarding not paying each other child support, and I admit Im concerned that if she gets pissy she might decide to go for it in court, which is notoriously unfair as far as amounts go. Her uncle just got slapped with over $600 a MONTH in support, essentially half a months pay. And the Courts NEVER want to hear anything about " how am I supposed to live ?" The canned response is " get another part time job to make up the difference" knowing full well that as soon as your income goes up more, they'll simply haul you back into the judge to extract more from you.
But part of me also feels like taking a stand, as politely as possible and point out that her vehicle/financial situation are no longer my concern or responsibility and point her towards the OM that she just had leave for to fulfill her needs. But, that could actually backfire on me, since she feels a powerful need to be " taken care of ". I really dont have a clue exactly how much he makes but its close to my income, he's certainly not rolling in dough by any means. The biggest advantage he has financially is that his place is free and clear except for taxes and utilities.
She actually said yesterday that she DOES want my help, but is afraid I'll " hold it over her head". Trying like hell to figure out the line between being supportive and forcing her to deal with the consequences of HER choice to walk, but Im not even sure in her FOG that she'll realize it for what it is, HER choice that SHE made that has consequences she didnt anticipate and that might make her wake up to the fact that despite my flaws maybe I wasnt such a bad choice after all.
