My game has changed from WAW to EA/PA HELP!!

[CD Bear]

Thanks for the input.
I had an awful evening. And I'm probably too emotionally drained right now to deal with it. I'll give a rundown of the evening; my feelings and concerns.
(I'm desperately trying to get "everybody" on one of the threads I have. I will copy this to the other thread as well to keep everyone in the loop. I'm beginning to regret taking the advice to open another cause now I'm guessing few of you are seeing all the posts. Any techies that can help me "merge' them?)
Tonight-
She brought home pizza. Her idea. We had a nice dinner and she even put her hand on my back at one point (briefly) during a chat at the sink. There were a few spots-one in particulaar- where we were laughing together like the old days and actually enjoying each other. Of course, there was the down spots.
1-as always, there were multiple SMS exchanges; and a few phone calls. Only one occurred in my prescence/earshot. It was her aunt in another province where she is going to visit her cousin next month. However, a detail came out that concerned me. Unlike my presumption, she has "friends who have a condo there and they'll be there the same week so I have a place to stay". The town is a summer hotspot for the "in crowd' and "parties". Condo was news to me. Family visiting looks like a sidebar now. Bad for me.
2-in a quick search for the card (she keeps everything of significance), though I found no card (it's hidden better OR as Sandy's post let me see, perhaps she did find the card inappropriate and rebuffed him?) I did find a receipt in her jacket for 'Party Passion'. Yep, a lube (we have some in the house already); a 'sexual enhancer cream' (can also be for self) and something else I couldn't find on the website. Not feeling really good here, either. 'Cause either way, self or OM, I'm not involved. Double bad.
Also found some 'do it yourself' divorce printouts from the web. Based on the condition, they aren't new and likely date back to when I offered my own version which she ignored and has never discussed since. Nothing but limbo. But she has at least done some homework.
And still no hard evidence of the affair. I know, it's highly likely but if I'm not 100% sure, I won't have the unwavering confidence I'll need for what comes next. Nor do I want to risk embarassing the h#ll out of myself on the remote chance it's not "exactly" what it appears. I have more questions than answers.

My feelings? I went from complete confidence to absolute despair in less than an hour and a real longing to somehow win her back because she is now so happy; unlike the woman I lived with for the year or so leading up to the D-bomb. If this woman lived here all the time without all the SMS and phone calls in private, and actually wanted to be here with us/me, I could easily do all the physical affections she needs and be happy myself. Then it would "feed on itself" to create the love feeling she is missing. But she doesn't understand that love is,first and foremost, A DECISION. The feeling derives from the actions based on the decison. We'd be 50% fixed in 10 minutes. She just needs to understand WAW Syndrome and see herself in it. It's not the marriage that is broken, it was our abilities to deal with the everyday problems. As someone else so wisely said (and it's difficult to feel it) she's not rejecting ME, she rejecting the unhappiness our marriage became. I understand it now and am aware of the skills and mindset required to create the solutions. But she is still in "grass is grenner" mode. And her increase in happiness is most likely being attributed to being away from me and the relief of dropping the D-bomb. So I'm quite unnerved and completely drained. Too much emotional turmoil. Rollercoaster is killing me. How does anyone try to GAL and be happy enough for the WAS to realize what they'll be missing when I barely have the mental capacity to remember to breathe? Sorry to suddenly be a "negative Nelly" but I don't know how long I can hold on without cracking and blowing the whole thing.

My Comments?
I covered a lot of them above but I have a question. And here's the pitch. When I read DB/DR, it clearly stated that IF the spouse was already talking divorce or separation as already occurred, LRT is the way. e.g No expression of needs; no pursuing; no I love you; etc. THIS WAS ME ALREADY!! We had deteriorated to the point where we were roommates; separate beds, etc. This is the person she already knew she didn't want. Moreover, she is physical needs based and little actions of appreciation focused. Any attempt at either would be pursuing. So I'm beginning to feel that I've either missing a huge detail in my reading OR I'm simply doing it wrong entirely. And as a result, I'm still losing my wife and my D's mother as quickly as if I'd done nothing. And GAL so far has simply been attempts to get out of the house; visiting my family which "we" have grown to neglect; and talking to a few male friends (men's social circles are always smaller than women's- especially after M and K's). MY hobbies require I finish the basement (drum studio) or hockey season (to play) or more money (golf and cars). Gradually, and I find it more common in married men, all of the things that made me ME disappeared to be replaced by 'family obligations' "Doing too much of what I should and too little of what I want" AM I wrong?
And, quite frankly, if I was asked to sum up what happened to my wife and I, I would have to say "simultaneous identity crises". Neither of us were happy in the marriage and yet neither of us had the skills, understanding or knowledge to be able to repair it. The only difference was I never gave up. On the other hand, I suppose I owe her my gratitude since it was only her "D-Bomb" that shook me enough to actually start reading up on it and finding DB. "So here I sit, broken hearted; got happily mrried, it barely started" (Sorry, it came to me that way)
So,these are the thoughts that haven't stopped all eveningand will likely preventme from getting any real rest tonight. If anybody has some suggestions or can hold out a hand and walk/talk me through this to an "action plan', my gratitude would be enormous.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I did find a receipt in her jacket for 'Party Passion'. Yep, a lube (we have some in the house already); a 'sexual enhancer cream' (can also be for self) and something else I couldn't find on the website. Not feeling really good here, either. 'Cause either way, self or OM, I'm not involved. Double bad.

Callasdad,

If you think this is all for "self," you're deluding YOURself.

Time to get what remains of your head out of the sand, and get to the hard work that you need to do. You don't need any more proof!!!

If this woman lived here all the time without all the SMS and phone calls in private, and actually wanted to be here with us/me, I could easily do all the physical affections she needs and be happy myself. Then it would "feed on itself" to create the love feeling she is missing. But she doesn't understand that love is,first and foremost, A DECISION. The feeling derives from the actions based on the decison. We'd be 50% fixed in 10 minutes. She just needs to understand WAW Syndrome and see herself in it. It's not the marriage that is broken, it was our abilities to deal with the everyday problems. As someone else so wisely said (and it's difficult to feel it) she's not rejecting ME, she rejecting the unhappiness our marriage became. I understand it now and am aware of the skills and mindset required to create the solutions. But she is still in "grass is grenner" mode.

Yep -- and she will CONTINUE to be in this mode while she's cheating on you, because her brain is all awash in "love chemicals" right now (PEAs), and they are EXTREMELY addictive.

You can't teach an adulteress. You can't "logic" her into reconciliation with you. Your gameplan should be to FIRST separate the addict from the source of her addiction (bust the affair), and then go from there. The sooner you can get yourself into an emotional and intellectual place of either "The Stockdale Paradox" or the Band of Brothers "You're Already Dead" mode, the better (Google those, and watch the latter on YouTube).

Puppy

[CD Bear]

Sandy-
Thanks for the different viewpoint.
To clear up a detail, my W did not cry or cough up the name.
I told the flowershop girl she was crying over a potential stalker and the flowershop girl coughed up the name.

The easiest way to stop this is confront OM. But I also believe it can't permanently stop unless it originates with HER. The only one that can really stop OM's pursuit is her.

But I don't know the script for that one. I appreciate your views and look forward to more.

[CD Bear]

Thank Puppy-
Band of Brothers-got the DVD's. Done. I see what you're after. So if I get into the mindset of already D, i'm curious how you believe my thoughts will affect my actions.
Thinking out loud but then wouldn't I have no care about what she's doing at all?
I really need your help on this because I have to learn this fast because if this weekend is her b'day party weekend, I have to throw a wrench into this "yesterday".

Standing by.

regarding my comments to Sandy, my next question is if I confront OM, I'm pretty sure it won't take long for it to get to her and then I'll be dealing with her, And I don't have the script for that one.

And I know I shouldn't do one if not prepared for the other. As you all say, I get ONE chance at this.

[Greek]

regarding my comments to Sandy, my next question is if I confront OM, I'm pretty sure it won't take long for it to get to her and then I'll be dealing with her, And I don't have the script for that one.

And I know I shouldn't do one if not prepared for the other. As you all say, I get ONE chance at this.

My thinking is - when you know and have facts that this is more than the garden variety colleague relationship, go to W with the facts first. "W, I know x, y, and z. It is disrespectful to me and our M. I have decided that I will not tolerate that behavior and if you will not end the inappropriate contact, you will have to leave and I will begin the D process." THEN go to OM and tell him what you told your W and that you want him to stay away from your family.

My .02
Greek

[CD Bear]

Thank you,G.
That's how it was beginning to look in my mind, too.
I just have to prepare words and my confidence to carry it out.
And I'd like to do it ASAP.

As Puppy so kindly noted, and others tried to point out, other than physically finding them together in a bed, it doesn't take a genius to see "something" is already or about to happen. Though I may be allowing "hope" to skew my vision, my nature is still telling me I may not have enough concrete evidence.

I'd rather not "wing it" and hope I'm right (she'll deny, evade or attack) so I better have "the smoking gun". On the other hand, I'd be more comfortable in the long run (not that it's necessarily a deal breaker) if I can catch it BEFORE it's a PA.

I think I'm going to tail her tomorrow and see if I can get one more shred of evidence. PLus, I may call my long time associate who also works there (he knows her as well though) to see if he can lend any input.

I'm online all day (working? from home) so I'll take all the recommendations I can get today. It's looking like a hairy weekend ahead.

[CD Bear]

Is it safe to presume I should not reveal HOW I know about the OM? Saw this quote on a reading list on DB FB.

"What about evidence before you confront? Love and respect yourself to rise above snooping through his records to build a case. It will make you angry. It is demeaning. It will thwart the process if there is a possibility of reconciliation. Snooping puts you on the same level as the person cheating -- he is sneaking around and so are you."

That kind of gives me a weaker case because I sure won't be able to bring up the "sex goodies" receipt? Unless 'I came across it in your jacket looking for your cigarettes. I ran out"

Opinions?

[twolf]

Allen gave you good advice on confronting O/M at work i called the O/M work and told his boss told the receptionest left message on his work voice mail. People who try to take an advantage of a married woman are cowards....

The O/M in my case will not talk to me he makes Stbxw call me to protect him and leave him alone that it was not fair of me to tell people he works with what is going on.

I would go to the bar take a freind with you and have the freind go in if wife is their with O/M you go in and confront Them.

Cowards hide in shame real men fight for what they belive in and are seen in public.

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step, so start walking.

[CD Bear]

Interesting idea.
Two birds.
Brain is going a hundred miles an hour now.
Thanks.

[sandi2]

The only one that can really stop OM's pursuit is her

Exactly! And, even if you ran this OM out of town.....if the problem stems from your W.....then she'll find OP to replace him.

I see what Allen and the other guys are saying, and I don't try to chop that down, but......I think one should be extremly careful before they go to a person's place of business/employment (with extra thugs ..I mean, friends)and threaten OM. If an A is going on at that place, you might have more information to hand the employer (b/c if his business is being affected then he'll be concerned), but if these are your personal friends or associates....it is going to be very embarrassing for them to endure that type of drama in their workplace. It could affect any friendships in the future after that kind of scene. Again, I completely understand the advice that has been given you, but I know how I would feel if that sort of scene took place near my desk! I would probably disassociate myself as quickly as possible....and that's not to imply that I would be supporting the A by wanting to escape a public scene that is considered very personal.

It took me a long time to be convinced that the LBS should "expose". That was b/c I was still feeling the raw defensiveness as a WAW. I began to understand the "true"
concept behind exposing after I read Puppy's story. (He was the main one I would argue with on the subject.) So, if done out of a "right" heart and not vengence, I do believe it's needed.....but I still cringe at some pictures painted of causing such scenes in a place of business. I come from the old school where M problems were kept between a man & his W......so it is a leap for me to be able to encourage that "type" of exposure (but I have a time or two).

The easiest way to stop this is confront OM.

That is the way you men see it, but not me. Listen, I had an EA--and if that guy had dumped me, I would have found somebody else to feed my ego. B/c by that time, I would have done most anything to get my choice of drug fix. It's all about the fantasy.....the addiction is the fantasy. It's like a little girl playing house....(only this is the adult version). When one playhouse was torn down, she just sets up another one. She's not in love with the man, but she's in love with the idea of him (fantasy). Her brain produces chemicals whenever that fantasy is fed. Does that make any sense at all?

Don't ever tell her your souce of information....or even how much you know. She needs to worry about "what all" you might know.

Puppy & Allen can guide you through any script that you might need. I appreciate you concern about any possible reconciliation and how exposure could affect that. That use to be my battle cry. But, I have learned from the experiences of others that the M has no hope of making it with a third person involved.....and that's where busting the A comes into play. I think timing is very important b/c if my H had "exposed" me in public....I would have left and never looked back. Yes, I would have lived to regret it, but that was my mind-set at that time.

I don't wish to confuse you about what to do when I tell you all of this. I realize you are under a lot of pressure. It is hard to live as if you are not concerned about what your W does......but take it from me, it will make a difference if she thought that you really didn't want her and actually might dump her!