DD got clean bill of health.. H.. didn't go to doc.. his actual appt is on Friday but he was hurting so bad he wanted to call and find out if he could go in early. He decided he'd wait till Friday. I did my absolute best to not try to pressure him into changing his mind. I think I'm getting the hang of stepping back and not sounding like the "controlling" spouse H keeps telling me I was. Of course, when it comes to getting rid of OW I feel justified in being controlling, but anyway........
speaking of communication.. BREAKTHROUGH!... in a round-a-bout manner I found out how H feels validated and not controlled when having a conversation about how he feels about certain things.
H and I were talking about his IC and cognitive therapy for his schizophrenia. (Keep in mind all this time I felt IC was validating him in his need to get D to be happy and he knows this is how I felt.) I think he was suspicious about why I was talking to him about IC. He asked why I was obsessing over IC, and said she is very good at her job. I explained that I wasn't questioning that, but was more academically curious about how someone who was so opposed to being told how to think (his words used to explain why he won't go to MC), is so willing to agree with IC. He said, "I don't always agree with her and I tell her when I don't." I asked how she still is able, though, to lead H to what she wants him to see without him resenting her for it....(I don't know if he saw through this or not, but I was really trying to find out for my own use, of course). He said, "She asks questions. And NOT yes or no questions... I don't really know how to explain it..." BINGO!
I told him he explained it very well, said thank you and ended the conversation.
Me 32, H 34, DD 3 M 6, T 8 Bomb 03/10 OW Bomb 6/5/10 Separate & NC 6/28/10 My 2nd EA Thread
Marriage's need to be controlled, the alternative is a marriage OUT of control...
Ignore his controlling complaints, its classic for these circumstances
and again spouses often refuse to go to FT claiming they don't want to be told what to think... my WS when having an affair refused to go because she "[didn't] want to be brainwashed"
It's classic script EC, you need to stop the negotiating... I get the impression now you are going to try to talk your H into going to FT by asking questions...
Good luck, but I can tell you that his relationship with his FT is a completely diffrent one than the affair going on ...
What I am wondering is how an IC would even continue to SEE a patient who was having an affair... I would set my sites on ENDING THAT immeidately.. its only going to AGGRAVATE schizophrenia for goodness sakes... is this IC a co op student or something?
Good Lord.. that would be a HUGE RED LIGHT if i found my patient had schizophrenia and was having an affair...
Marriage's need to be controlled, the alternative is a marriage OUT of control...
Ignore his controlling complaints, its classic for these circumstances
and again spouses often refuse to go to FT claiming they don't want to be told what to think... my WS when having an affair refused to go because she "[didn't] want to be brainwashed"
It's classic script EC, you need to stop the negotiating... I get the impression now you are going to try to talk your H into going to FT by asking questions...
Good luck, but I can tell you that his relationship with his FT is a completely diffrent one than the affair going on ...
What I am wondering is how an IC would even continue to SEE a patient who was having an affair... I would set my sites on ENDING THAT immeidately.. its only going to AGGRAVATE schizophrenia for goodness sakes... is this IC a co op student or something?
Good Lord.. that would be a HUGE RED LIGHT if i found my patient had schizophrenia and was having an affair...
I would be ALL OVER THAT
Actually - the controlling thing is something that I can understand. I didn't see it until I started thinking about it. It's how I speak to him that makes it seem as if I'm controlling. Yes, I know it's classic script, but in this instance I can see a grain of truth that I'm not communicating effectively with him and, in fact, appear to have told him what to do on several occasions (before the current sitch all went down) - NOT my intention at all, but it's what is said vs. how it's said. I can understand that's how he felt and I realize that my communication skills in this area need a LOT of work. Still doesn't excuse his actions, but this is something I need to work on for me regardless of his attitude.
As far as the IC - I agree. She is actually supposedly very good at working with issues not related to relationships, such as generalized anxiety, social anxiety, feelings of paranoia, etc. The PROBLEM is that I don't think she knows how to handle H when it comes to his relationship problems because she is trying to not backtrack on his trust in her. He admitted there have been several times he's shared things about our marriage with her that she tried to steer him into a direction he didn't like and disagreed with her. But that means if he's unwilling to listen, she just backs off and doesn't keep trying to help on that issue. But I haven't been able to do anything about that. I have no say in who he sees for therapy and have been unable to convince him that she isn't a marital therapist because he says she has training in that so that makes it all ok. ARGH.
Talking about IC and how she communicates with him really wasn't meant to be a negotiating tactic. I honestly wanted to know how it is she is in a position to "guide" him and he accepts that (usually) without resenting it. Now that I know his viewpoint, I'm going to observe his interactions with others (anything with me is suspect I know) and see if that holds true in his day to day activities.
And BELIEVE me, if I could figure out a way to get to the IC and talk to her without H knowing until after I'd done it, I would....
Me 32, H 34, DD 3 M 6, T 8 Bomb 03/10 OW Bomb 6/5/10 Separate & NC 6/28/10 My 2nd EA Thread
I would write a letter to the clinic explaining that she has no business working with your H on his marriage without the proper training and by excluding you.
This will kick into gear two things :
a. She has the training and will invite you to MC.. which she can't do if she's treating him for IC b. She will NOT get involved with the MC at all with him and will reccomend he speak with a MC of her reference.
She can't do a, and she likely isn't trained in that topic... the thing is... she should be TELLING your husband that rather than NOT SAYING anything.. she has somehow left HIM with the impression that SHE is qualified to help him work on his marriage... SHE needs to clear that up. And you as his wife are entitled to approach that business and CLEAR that up.. OR demand in invitation to the sesions... the idea that a MC treats a marriage with just one spouse in secret and not even contacting the other who is possibly willing to attend is unprofessional.
So, I would confront the clinic and tell her
a. Straighten H out that she is NOT qualified to discusss the marraige at all OR b. Invite you to the sessions if she IS
She cannot professionaly practice as she is now in my opinion... if she's discussing the marriage at all, she's crossing a line and you have every right to confront her on that
I would write a letter to the clinic explaining that she has no business working with your H on his marriage without the proper training and by excluding you.
I like this idea.. now here's the problem.. she doesn't really "work" for the clinic she has office space in. She's contracted as an independent licensed therapist. On these grounds, should I write a letter directly to her first, or attempt to go through the clinic? Which do you think would be the better approach?
Me 32, H 34, DD 3 M 6, T 8 Bomb 03/10 OW Bomb 6/5/10 Separate & NC 6/28/10 My 2nd EA Thread
k, so I've been holding off on going that route because I know ICs hate to work with the spouses (though my therapist I was seeing a couple months ago was more than willing to work with H).... which is yet another reason I don't think she should be talking to him about our marriage.
I will look into this ASAP, and I'm also looking up legal issues relating to mental health therapy in my state...I am torn between wanting H to know and not wanting him to know anything about it till it's already happened.... argh..... pros and cons to each way. He actually had an appointment with her today, so I know she's in the office. Wish I could just walk in today after his appointment is over, but I can't get away from home right now.
I need a virtual "HIT HEAD HEAR" sign.
Last edited by elvencat; 06/16/1007:46 PM.
Me 32, H 34, DD 3 M 6, T 8 Bomb 03/10 OW Bomb 6/5/10 Separate & NC 6/28/10 My 2nd EA Thread
1. Prepare a script (always be prepared with a script) 2. Research her credentials and the constraints of her license 3. Record the conversation with a hidden device in your jacket or purse 4. Invite her to work WITH you to help this man rather than working in secret and contaminating your marriage
What she's doing now is in my opinion a violation of professional ethics in treating a man using IC knowing he's having an affair...
If YOU have a good FT you can have her refer THAT one...
YOu don't want to confront her without being prepared...
Also you want to find out what her credentails are and the limits of her license...
Regarding the family therapist, they OFTEN see invidduals to help the marriage since it is often that one doens't want to go.. MWD says this in her book outright... dealt iwth it all the time
YOU need to start gonig to set a GOOD EXAMPLE.. how can you expect your spouse to go if he doens't see YOU going and YOU improving as a result of your going...
When he sees you not gonig he thinks :
1. She isnt' gonig, why should I... 2. She isn't gonig, they can't be very helpful
1. Prepare a script (always be prepared with a script) 2. Research her credentials and the constraints of her license 3. Record the conversation with a hidden device in your jacket or purse 4. Invite her to work WITH you to help this man rather than working in secret and contaminating your marriage
What she's doing now is in my opinion a violation of professional ethics in treating a man using IC knowing he's having an affair...
If YOU have a good FT you can have her refer THAT one...
1 and 2 - working on that. 3.. would never have thought of, but have one available to me, so yes I'll use it. 4. Definitely, and I do have a FT in mind.. haven't made it to an appt yet because he's the one who's only available on Thursdays, and I don't have insurance, so I'm talking to him about a payment plan - he is very family oriented and would prefer divorce to be the absolute last resort, even in cases of affairs. - And H knows I'm making an appointment for myself as soon as possible.
Also - forgot to mention H is aware of me being involved with an online support community... saw it on my screen a few days ago when I thought the screen had locked and it hadn't (we each have our own laptops, btw)...Don't think he's found this thread yet as I have a feeling he'd confront me on many of the things I've talked about here. And regardless, if he does, I HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE. Everything I talk about on here is in an effort to save my marriage, nothing more, nothing less... so I'm not going anywhere. Just wanted to mention that in case something happens in the future that this will have a bearing on.
Last edited by elvencat; 06/16/1008:14 PM.
Me 32, H 34, DD 3 M 6, T 8 Bomb 03/10 OW Bomb 6/5/10 Separate & NC 6/28/10 My 2nd EA Thread
Just wanted to mention that in case something happens in the future that this will have a bearing on.