He's telling friends he thinks we'll reunite

[Allen A]

And yes, when he pulled over and you talked to him he did use you

1. He learned he can still manipulate you
2. He diffused your exposure efforts

When you talk to him in public after your exposure, NO ONE will take your exposure SERIOUSLY after that... and HE looks BETTER...

He WANTS people to see YOU talking to HIM, it makes HIM look better and not the jerk you exposed him for... to YOU that may nto be the case and even to the public at large, but in HIS mind, if you talk to him after exposure and him moving out then it diffuses you exposing him to HIM and HIS mind...

And yes, you cut him off before it got worse, but he did get something out of the exchange, he always will... as will you

[Allen A]

Here's an except from Penny's book :


In my experience, continuing to have minimal
contact is one of the riskier strategies. Unfortunately
it is the one that, intuitively, seems to make the
most sense. So let‘s take it apart a little and see if I
can help you understand why this strategy has the
power to be destructive to the goal of saving your
marriage.

Minimal contact that is conflicted and adversarial
does nothing to heal the relationship; it only serves
to drive a bigger wedge between you and your
partner. I think we‘d all agree that‘s pretty obvious.
What may no t be so obvious is that minimal
adversarial contact has possibly a more adverse
affect on the betrayed mate than the one having the
affair. Remember the Great Race that I mentioned
earlier ? Adversarial and conflicted contact is very
likely to accelerate the betrayed partner‘s readiness
to throw in the towel.

Minimal contact that is calm and courteous, then,
seems like the best possible solution. Instinctively
and intuitively it‘s what you‘ ll be driven by your
own attachment chemistry to maintain. Don‘t be
fooled. Minimal courteous contact can be deadly. A
few thing s happen which, combined, create a
dangerous biochemical time bomb.

First, you send a loud and clear message to your
spouse that the affair really isn‘t all that devastating
to you. After all, if yo u can inter act pleasantly, then
you must be doing just fine. You must be accepting
the inevitable break up of your marriage. Even if
you have said something to the contrary, your
actions are where the real message lies.

Second, you derail the attachment chemistry we
want to trigger in your spouse. When a relationship
is threatened (even a relationship we claim to no
longer want) the instinctive reaction is to find it
suddenly more attractive. But in order for this to
happen there must be a perceived threat to the status
quo. When you remain in contact and you give the
appearance of being calm and at peace, there is no
perceived threat to the relationship.


Think about this... long and hard... is the above the message you want to send when you continue to interact with your husabnd after all this games?

[MarieC]

Hi, Allen,

Thanks for posting this.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough about our interaction. It last less than a minute, no one else was around to witness it. I was polite but walked away after refusing a ride with him. He seemed surprised and shocked by this action on my part, staying in the driver's seat of the car but not starting it until I was over a block away.

I also have been polite but have not picked up on his many attempts to get conversation going in emails over the last few weeks.

I can see the point of what this lady writes (above), but I also think that MWD and DB-ing have some very good points, as well, about keeping some communication open and being willing to talk, and I think I may have made a mistake in my short-to-curt responses to just SOME of the questions he's asked me over the last few weeks in all those emails he's been sending.

I came to the DB forums because MWD's approach makes more sense to me than a lot of other things I've read.

I am beginning to think that I may have made a mistake by "going dim" and refusing to respond to his overtures, because I really don't think that my being cold and unresponsive gives him any incentive to try to come back. I am beginning to think that the DB/Alanon "detaching with love" strategy would be better in my particular case, with my particular husband.

Thank you for your ideas, though, and the quotation above. I will think about both.

Would also like to hear from anyone who is following the DB guidelines on this - or who has been in a similar situation.

[MarieC]

Hi, Red,

Thank you for that link. It was definitely interesting and may perhaps one day be useful for me, as there seems to be so much MLC-related garbage in my husband's mind right now.

He doesn't seem to be fooling himself that I'm fine with his behavior; in retrospect, after reading the emails he's sent me of late, he seems to have been making overtures - that I missed. And he seemed genuinely happy to see me - not manipulative or smarmy or Don Juan-ish - to have seen me.

I think he kept trying to look into my eyes to see what's going on with me, but the fact that I wanted to get away from him - and did go away so fast - was upsetting to him.

I know Allen's well-intentioned but I don't think his approach will work with us. I think I may have made my H come across differently than he is - he's a gentle person, not a Casanova. I don't think he thinks it's at all fine with me that he's with Bimbo - and I don't think he's fooling himself that our friends or the rest of the community (with the exception of the drinkers and philanderers he's friends with) approve AT ALL of what he's done.

I am just trying to figure out the way ahead from here, with DB methods, and could use some advice - especially from some folks who might have had some success with overcoming a MLC affair. It seems a lot of the old hands aren't around any more - or maybe I'm posting in the wrong place?

[Allen A]

The thing is Marie, MWD does not specialize in infidelity, her main focus is rebuilding marriages that arne't plagued by an addictive affair...

Penny Tupy SPECIALIZES in affairs.. she does the same work MWD does and they are colleagues... MWD is a mentor of Penny... Penny focuses on infidelity and has a proven track record there...

Penny has practiced her methods for hundreds of cases, this isnt' just theory from a random poster... its from an book in infidelity she has written...

Others including W Harley who also specialize in infidleity advocates the same approach as Penny does... Glass too is a specialist in teh field and reccomends treating infidelity as an addiction...

You can think being more inviting will bring him back, but experience has proven otherwise... He's addicted.. he must learn fully what he will LOSE in order to end it...

It matters little if anyone has seen teh convo take place, in HIS MIND you are interacting post exposure... this undermines the exposure efforts you have made if you contact in in any way after that...

To his mind its an act that sends a strong message that you are ok with his cheating and it isn't hurting you... whether that's the case or not that's what he's getting when you talk with him in any way

[Allen A]

I am also not suggesting that your H thinks its all ok, what I am saying is that this is the MESSAGE you convey when you exchange conversation at all... it may very well be counter to his suspicions, but this IS what is being said when you exchange conversation with him while he's cheating

Shutting him out completely can be deafening... You would be shocked to realize how much postiive impact dead silence from you can have on him...

Have you never had anyone give you "the silent treatment" before?

I think you may be misunderstanding the approach somewhat...

The info is there, its up to you

[MarieC]

The silent treatment does not make me want to reach out to anyone, though - it makes me want to stay away from them.

That said, I haven't written back to him since last Friday, when I wrote a note based on MWD's clip on infidelity, in which she recommended saying that I'd be willing to listen if he has anything to say. If not, I told him, and if he's happy with the choices he's made in his life, I will just continue building my new life and we can finish off the last bits of our old life (he is trying to keep as many ties as possible, it seems to me, even those that cost him money he can't afford to spend - I make more than he does and I spend less) when I get back to Germany next week. Not a peep since. From either of us. And this is after he's been so chatty for almost a month.

So, am doing what you recommend - just wondering if it's the right approach with this particular man, in this particular situation. As I said before, he's shy so it must have been hard for him to initiate and then keep initating conversations - to which I barely responded. He does not have it in him to crawl back across broken glass - I know that much - and I don't think I should make him, either.

I didn't make him sleep with that bimbo, I know. He's an adult and he made that choice on his own. I just don't know how to approach this - as an alcohol issue, or if it's a MLC or he felt he wasn't getting his needs met?

Did you get back with your spouse? I see you post a lot. Did what you are pushing work for you?

[4luv]

marie,

i just did a quick read of the last exchange between you and Allen and wanted to offer my two cents (or maybe one cent :-)).

MWD being lovingly detached is good and works when the problems in the marriage are less complicated than infidelity. It is helpful in infidelity as a plan a. the wayward spouse has the picture of you being loving and not affected by their moods. However, eventually you have to cut them off or they will literally suck the life out of you and mess with your self esteem. The best thing I did that helped me was to shut my husband out for two weeks after a bad event where the OW called me. For me I was mortified but not communicating with my husband made him realize what it would truly be like without me in his life...PERIOD.

It doesn't feel natural and I fought it all the way (Ask Allen or read my threads) but now that husband and I are reconciling and he we have been communicating I found out that my shutting him out for two weeks had a huge impact on him plus me moving out of our home with our child. OH and following the the other rules of DB such as getting a life (husband didn't know this is what i was doing but he noticed me being happy while he was living a life of stress).

[4luv]

sorry for the mistakes and non-caps...my keyboard is broke thanks to my son

[MarieC]

Thanks for writing, 4luv.

Well, we're coming up on a week of no contact from either side, so I guess I can just keep it up and see what happens. You know what MWD says about "do what works."

I don't pursue him, I don't call, I don't respond much. I think what I told him in my last note was pretty clear; if he doesn't want to talk, then I want to finish off the old life.

Can't file for divorce until mid-February - is that ever a wakeup trigger for them?