Well for the most part I have been busting the A. Validating her feelings she has for OM was wrong.
I use to do all those things you mentioned BEFORE our sitch. Since reading DR and being on this forum I learned to validate many things W says/feels but not all. My W is sick or something is hurting nearly everyday and I validate never telling her it is wrong.
The only time I tell her the way she feels is wrong is when W tells me she wants out of the marriage and when W says she is unattractive. I need to know how to validate when W says she is unattractive rather than just saying "No, your beautiful"
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
"I hear you say that you're unattractive and I that must make you feel insecure about yourself, sorry you don't see yourself for the beautiful woman you are"
Needs work...is that too pursuing?
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AS for today, W went to get blood work done. W and I went and purchased a gift for W's aunt for aunt's birthday. We then went and picked up some items on our list. During this time W was once again talking about decorating rooms in the house.
Quick back story. Before our sitch and when our sitch first began (for the first month or so) W would often talk about during things around the house and if I said "We should do that what do you think?" (something along those lines) W would then flip it around and say "Up to you, I won't be her anyway) now W does not say those things...
Also W seems to had forgot many things she said a few months back but I remember all of it. For example: 4 months ago W picked out decor for a room in the house but did not purchase it. Today W looking for decor for the same room and I said "I recall you wanted this" and W would reply "Oh, did not remember doing that"
There was an instance today were I made a comment to W that enticed a response and the response she gave was "umm hmm" so I said "Our conversations could be a lot more enjoyable if we used words rather than sounds" and W's response was "I respond how I feel at the time" and not knowing what to say or want it to escalate into anything resembling an argument I just carried onto another topic knowing I stated my point.
W and I did quite a few things around the house together without incident. We hung pictures up on the wall and installed our new light fixture.
W then gave me a gift she had got me for father's day (Father to the dog that is). She decided to give it to me early since I was in need of what she got me and did not want me buying it on my own.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Its been approximately 7 weeks of this and no strong positive affirmations for you. I guess after this going to 16 weeks should not be a problem. Keep an eye on your esteem along the way. You do not indicate that you make many errors at all, and if she ever allows it it can be about her around the house as long as you get what you need.
Your response is not really pursuing IMO but it doesn't sound quite right. Hearing and understanding are two very different things. Telling her how she "must" feel is not good either.
I think you need to look at the big picture. Your W does not take care of her health. Instead she buries her head in the sand and sleeps (the blood work is a good first step). You have caught her looking at plastic surgery sites and she wants to go on your insurance to obtain plastic surgery. IMO your W is broken in the inside and is looking for "outside" fixes to make herself feel better. That is a huge problem.
I would simply tell your W when she complains about feeling unattractive: W, sorry to hear you feel that way. Anything I can do to?
If her answer is "put me on the insurance to get work done" then you know where you stand.
If she says nothing then do nothing. Eventually your W will have to put some effort in beyond the daily activities you do. She will have to learn to manage (or change) her work schedule, her physical issues and she will have to learn to communicate better. At some point she will need to show some remorse and not act so entitled towards you.
IMO it is time for you to start turning things around a bit. Validate her feelings and give her the opportunity to come to you. If she doesn't then she doesn't. If she does, well, then we might start to see some progress.
Your response is not really pursuing IMO but it doesn't sound quite right. Hearing and understanding are two very different things. Telling her how she "must" feel is not good either.
First part listening, second part understanding. I agree that the third part does not sound too good.
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Your W does not take care of her health.
Maybe this is a misinterpretation of what I have posted. W does her best to take care of her health. W goes to the doctors more times in a month than I have in the past 2 years. The issue is they (doctors) don't know exactly what is the cause for her constant headaches and sleep disorder.
I know my W's health issues could be a major contributor to our sitch but I don't really want to get into that discussion. I know she needs help and she knows it as well. It is up to my W to continue to get that help.
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I would simply tell your W when she complains about feeling unattractive: W, sorry to hear you feel that way. Anything I can do to?
I like that
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She will have to learn to manage (or change) her work schedule, her physical issues and she will have to learn to communicate better.
This is where we are at now. AS W has in the past she is "dealing" with the physical pain and starting to contribute more. Before I was lucky if she pulled herself out of the bed more than just go to the bathroom. Now she has become more active in maintaining the household (could have everything to do with the party on the 26th but it's a start).
W has pulled out my old "Officer of the Month" awards and the articles she clipped from the newspaper, framed them, and hung them on the wall.
COMMUNICATION is where we lack. Just not as healthy as I want it to be. I need some heavy hitting responses for when W starts using sounds to communicate with me.
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IMO it is time for you to start turning things around a bit. Validate her feelings and give her the opportunity to come to you. If she doesn't then she doesn't. If she does, well, then we might start to see some progress.
Need some examples.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
COMMUNICATION is where we lack. Just not as healthy as I want it to be. I need some heavy hitting responses for when W starts using sounds to communicate with me.
How about "Hunh?" Also good are: "wha?" and "hmm".
And when she tells you she is feeling unattractive, laugh and say, "Oh, now you're just fishing for compliments! You know you are beautiful!'
I gave you the example above... you asking your W is there anything you can do. Now it is up to her to answer/provide you with info/communicate with you or not.
The reason I continue talking about your W's health issues is because as you may have read on various threads I have SLE (systemic lupus) which is a chronic and incurable disease. The physical pain, sleep issues and fatigue can be nothing short of life altering and debilitating. I understand (now more than ever) the toll it can take on a marriage for both the person suffering and the other spouse.
In an eight year span I went to the doctor 96 times with the same complaints. I understand not being able to get a proper diagnosis and living in what feels like hell.
I think you will fare better if you learn to use your resources. And I am a resource for a person who lives with a very, very painful disease and one that went through hell getting a diagnosis. If you don't want to talk about it with me that is fine but there are plenty of people who can relate and you should be talking to them.
You have been given some heavy hitting responses for when your W chooses to grunt at you. W: please stop making noises to communicate with me. It is disrespectful to me and I no longer will respond to grunts or moans as a form of communication.
If she doesn't like it.. tough! Physical pain is not an excuse for being a mute.
With the examples I was referring to when you stated...IMO it is time for you to start turning things around a bit.
I'm nit sure how to take the advice given. I have DB'd for months to get to a point where W would start coming around and doing things with me and now it is being suggested I do less things with her.
I have started and will continue to call W out when she uses sounds or communicates to in a negative way.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
W: I feel unattractive. YOU: Sorry you feel that way. Anything I can do?
You are validating her feelings and leaving the door open for her to come to you and let you know what you can do. If she says nothing, well, then it is nothing. If she communicates something to you then GREAT.
This is "turning things around a bit" because you are giving her the option to open up to you or not. If she chooses not to then do nothing. If she chooses to then you can go from there.
You have said multiple times you are asking for "heavy hitting" responses to your W's grunts. So I gave you one then you said you are already doing that. Not sure what else you are asking for.
Other than your W doing things around the house (and this is happening because she wants a party) and her doing more with you outside of the house because you ask her to what has really changed? That is why I suggested you do less with her. If she wants to keep doing things outside of the house with you then IMO you will need to see if she initiates in a way that is not riddled with entitlement or dread. She is not receptive to any form of very brief physical touch and she has not really offered you any affirmation.
Of course you can't rush things but that, IMO, is why you need to offer less and see where you are at.
Improving communication is important but as long as the underlying issues are present then eventually things will halt.
My advice to you would be as follows:
Participate in other threads. It will give you new ideas for your own situation and it's nice to offer the same that you have gotten for some time now.
Practice your validation, appreciation and communication skills here and in other areas of your life other than with your W.
Do more for you and build things in your life other than work that don't involve your W.
Step back and see if she initiates anything (it could be as simple as HER doing one nice thing for you or asking you to go somewhere that is not related to errands). IMO it is time for a temperature check. Right now she is used to the dynamic of you doing all the work, suggesting and initiating. See what happens if you cool off on that for a bit. That doesn't mean ignore or exclude her but see if she does more when you do less.
I get the feeling you see this is very black and white and it really isn't. Work in shades of gray.
