Making myself attractive takes time. I don't know how much of that I have.
How long do you plan on being alive?
Everybody here can give you a different response of what is attractive to them or what they think the opposite sex finds attractive or refer you to a book where someone else can tell you and maybe even back it up with some statistical analysis that makes them look smart. Heck I can go off on my Know Yourself speil for you if you wish.
But in reality making yourself "attractive" if thats what you want to call it takes a lifetime, more sometimes. Elvis still has an attractive quality and he is long gone, although I swore I saw him once driving an orange corvette through Letchworth State Park, Michael Jackson still demands attraction and people flock to Gary, Indiana to glance at the house he was born in.
Its your life. Its you. Noone can tell you how to attractive; Noone can tell you how to be you. You just are. Succeed in that and people will flock to you.
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It bothers me that she doesn't see how much I have changed.
concerns me. not only does it suggest to me you are not confident with yourself to realize you are great and you are attractive already, but it reads that although you may be trying to give your wife space and probably following Sandi's list to the letter, you are subconsciously putting pressure on your wife expecting what you do will attract her to you.
Don't do that. It is sometimes the tiniest actions that will unfreeze a cold heart and it will probably be those that you did not plan on or even think about that accomplishes that.
I started DBing again with a new coach, who was really, really good for me. I decided that I could not let myself be paralyzed by depression or go into a hole and withdraw -- that's too easy. I have to keep plugging along, and here's why.
I am going to start only listening to actions and not words. My W can say "divorce" all she wants, but she's not acting that way. My W feels lonely, undesireable and unhappy and feels the only way to be happy is to get out of the M.
My coach feels we should not be in therapy together right now. We are on two different pages and sees nothing productive really happening with this new T except her arguing her point and me arguing mine, and it will only reinforce her feelings and make her feel I don't "get it." I want to make an excuse to get out of it. It's bad timing.
I am going to continue throwing myself at my children, being helpful and supportive and trying to lure her in to our fun. I have to go a bit out of character and really almost flirt with her through the kids and boost her ego. Have so much fun that she's going to want to join us -- or I will invite her. She has to see the love I have for our children all the time. What woman doesn't find that attractive -- to see her husband totally engaged with his children? Before I can get anywhere with her I have to do this until she lets her guard down a bit (hopefully).
I have been this way all weekend and I FEEL GOOD being this way. I am not stressed and crying every time I look at my kids. Who cares if she can't handle it. Me and my boys are having a GREAT time. My W has gone back to being less withdrawn, more talkative and she seems to be enjoying our time with the boys. But she is still keeping her distance. What else can I do to squeak out a little more vulnerability?
I have always classified my W as a WAW. She's chosen to walk away from the marriage without giving it a real chance now despite therapy. Yet she is not behaving like a walkaway wife. Walkaways don't want anything to do with their spouses and they don't want to do anything either. But she is still present and available to be affected by me. She still depends on me to take care of the kids. She knows how much she will lose in terms of my role as father. She wants me to "get her". And I do. I get that she feels like her life with me hit a wall that we can't get over. But if I go over the wall first and invite her to join me (in a sense), perhaps it will strike a nerve.
My question to those WAWs out there is how did or do you think you might react to a H who is always positive, always engaged with the children and not afraid to be silly and playful? I felt so good being that way and I know it made the W less stressed. But I wonder if she will learn to appreciate it or continue to ignore it.
What else can I do to squeak out a little more vulnerability?
I felt so good being that way and I know it made the W less stressed. But I wonder if she will learn to appreciate it or continue to ignore it.
You may want to deny this or argue against it but you are puting considerable pressure on your wife as long as you maintain these questions and attitudes.
when will she notice my changes? who knows. never possibly. is she even looking? are they actually the changes she is looking for? was there that much wrong with you that you need to change?
when will she be more vunerable? the joke here would be, slip her a mickey. same goes, trying to find her "vunerability" and eek into her heart, is good for what? A one -two month relationship with someone on the rebound. It is not going to fix your marriage. She will probably only be more annoyed at you after she realizes what you tried to do.
You should not be trying win your wife over when she is vunerable but rather when she is strong. Hence, attractiveness.
I'm not much into therapy, but I think your consellour gave you'all some good advice...
"Just work on being good parents. Be friends and just see how things go."
You know you can love someone without expectation and you can show love without it being returned. That is where one person can save a relationship when the other doesnt want to.
You said something a page or two back where you could not understand how a therapist could support people reaching their own personal goals. You need to find your own personal happiness. As your thread reads the both of you are not.
How can you share your happiness with someone else, if you are not, if you are focused on the negative, if you are not enjoying life? It is miserable enough to be around another person who is negative, but 2 unhappy people stimied in achieving what they want out of life. It is understandable then why people get divorced.
Once again attractiveness. Constantly moving forward in life, learning and experiencing new things, excitement. At least it will give you something to talk about other than "why do you not see things my way."
it's too late to make things right and there ain't no strength left in this heart of mine we make quite a pair but we never got our share of good times you sure were fun to fight
Memphis Band? You in Memphis "Steve"?
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
You may want to deny this or argue against it but you are puting considerable pressure on your wife as long as you maintain these questions and attitudes.
when will she notice my changes? who knows. never possibly. is she even looking? are they actually the changes she is looking for? was there that much wrong with you that you need to change?
when will she be more vunerable? the joke here would be, slip her a mickey. same goes, trying to find her "vunerability" and eek into her heart, is good for what? A one -two month relationship with someone on the rebound. It is not going to fix your marriage. She will probably only be more annoyed at you after she realizes what you tried to do.
First, thanks for taking the time to write.
I know what you mean, and I think I let my impatience bleed through my words. I am trying very hard and sometimes I let my impatience get the better of me.
I don't think my behavior lately has been putting pressure on my W. If anything, she seems a little looser, she's been occasionally more talkative (as in SHE will start a conversation or tell me something that happened during her day). I know what you mean about not "looking" for changes. I have made the changes in hopes she will notice -- and their really isn't anything fake or affected about them.
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I'm not much into therapy, but I think your consellour gave you'all some good advice...
"Just work on being good parents. Be friends and just see how things go."
My T is great. But the problem is that it's been hard for my W to feel she is impartial since she is MY personal T. I think my W might have been OK with that advice, but I went and pushed for a neutral T. The first thing my W said at our meeting was "I wasn't sure I even wanted to bother with a neutral T." Now I want to dump the T because my W went in with an attitude I can't work with.
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You know you can love someone without expectation and you can show love without it being returned. That is where one person can save a relationship when the other doesnt want to.
I agree 100%. And it requires a lot of discipline to keep this in perspective.
You're very right McQueen. I bought The Divorce Remedy today and I am plowing through it. Read DB. It's great advice.
I don't think my behavior lately has been putting pressure on my W. sure. yeah. she "checks out" and goes up stairs to deal with issues. you got her meeting with marriage counselors, that she's not really in to it, to deal with them. sounds like you-all got separate goals.
what other goals do you have in life?
what sports you do in your free time?
do you have a bicycle? perhaps one of the kid rickshaw trailers? wicked excitement for a couple of 2 year old boys to be flying down the road while drinking from their sippy cups. in a couple years they will think it the coolest thing when you dump it and flip 'em over.
it's too late to make things right and there ain't no strength left in this heart of mine we make quite a pair but we never got our share of good times you sure were fun to fight
Memphis Band? You in Memphis "Steve"?
nope. but i did give my wife a little silver heart on a silver chain for valentines. and she gave it to my daughter.
Ouch!! Mr. McQueen, you're harsh, but it's appreciated.
I canceled our T session. I don't feel good about seeing a psychotherapist who likes to say, "And how does that make you FEEL?"
I would be pefectly content following your advice and just focus on living my life with my kids and my W when she wants to participate. I completely regret every pushing her back into MC. Her silence told me that she didn't want to go, but she went anyway thinking she could bring our M to a close. Now I have killed the T sessions, so I wonder if my W will take it as a relief or frustrating that she won't have the forum to tell me to take a walk.
I am gonna look into a bike with the rikshaw trailer! THAT sounds like fun!!
W has been OK the past few days. We had a nice lively conversation last night at dinner, we laughed a little bit and we became absorbed by conversation about our boys. Like DB says, the conversation ended and I didn't pursue. I found something else to do.
Woke up this morning and came downstairs with a fresh Hugo Boss dark navy suit on, tie, etc. She gave me a look and said, "Meeting today?" (I wear suits to work once every 1-2 months) I knew I looked good, I felt good and I walked out of the house feeling OK.
