Oh and MC and I also chatted about OW and trust and MC is also concerned that even though H may 'think' he can be just friends (and perhaps legitimately can some time from now) that right now it could be distracting to the work he's doing on himself. He does seem to be doing some of that work though, and if he gets far enough, and feels good enough about himself, then the friendship could become less and less important to him as he learns to self validate (and as he discovers my changes and also has some emotional needs met at home). She agreed that I'm walking a tight-rope for now (because I choose to) and that if I want to ride this out for a bit, the best thing I can do is 'trust' him, give him the appearance of trust. That's what he needs and is looking for. In other words, this is not the time for ultimatums or talks about OW. She says that she knows this isn't easy, she is impressed by my patience and thinks I am doing well under the circumstances.
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
It has worked better for me that I listen if H wants to talk. I have said a couple of times, if he wants to talk, I'm hear, just be cautious you don't say it alot.
I have an H that is very conflict avoidant, so if he says anything, I make sure I start off with my mouth SHUT and my ears and eyes open. If it is about a problem (esp with D's), I make sure I am compassionate and I DON'T try to fix anything.
Question ... on family day, or at some appropriate time, should I slip something in about us being able to talk, if he wants, without the MC present - not actually start a R talk, but let him know that I'm open if he needs to say something? Or should I just BE available for the conversation if and when he wants it?
If he wants to talk, can you listen?
Seems like an EASY question.
It's not that easy.
I'm not trying to offend you either.
It actually VERY hard NOT to get into an R talk, or defend or get emotional even with a C present...harder without one at first.
I like Grace's suggestion AND modus operandi.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Question ... on family day, or at some appropriate time, should I slip something in about us being able to talk, if he wants, without the MC present - not actually start a R talk, but let him know that I'm open if he needs to say something? Or should I just BE available for the conversation if and when he wants it?
If he wants to talk, can you listen?
Seems like an EASY question.
It's not that easy.
I'm not trying to offend you either.
It actually VERY hard NOT to get into an R talk, or defend or get emotional even with a C present...harder without one at first.
I like Grace's suggestion AND modus operandi.
That is a great question, and one I need to answer really honestly, because if I can't, then I risk setting us back, potentially way back. Soooo ... Yes, I believe I can. It will require a concentrated effort on my part to listen and keep my mouth SHUT but it's what I want to do, and what I need to do.
It's not an easy question at all, because I can be honest enough to admit that his observations have truth in them - one of his beefs is that when he talks, even as I'm listening, I seem to be thinking of how to fix it or what to say next. I think it will be a nice change - uncomfortable at first, and often very hard - to just listen. Stop the wheels from spinning and REALLY listen, not try to fix or spin or defend.
I too like Grace's suggestion AND modus operandi. I think I need to occasionally let him know that I'm here to LISTEN if he wants to talk and make sure that I continue to provide a safe environment in which to do that. And SHUTTING UP and LISTENING and VALIDATING are going to be what helps along the chats. I already know that if he tries to talk to me and I fail the test, well it's going to be a loooooong time before he even tries again - and it will undermine whatever belief he has in the sustainability of these changes he's seeing in me.
I figure going to a MC is a pre-decided R talk ... no bones about it. If he wants to go then I assume he'll either rebook it or ask me to. Even without the appt, I want him to know I'm here to listen if he wants to talk, but I don't want to initiate or force something if he's not ready. I can't tell from his response if he is disappointed that we're not going, or relieved, or surprised (he might be wondering why I'm not anxious to rebook??) ... I guess if he wants to talk with the MC present he'll rebook it.
Oh, and no offense taken. I'm guessing part of the reason most of land here has to do with our abilities to REALLY listen to our partners. I know it's true in my case. And if I can't honestly answer yes to your first question yet, then it's not the time to be offering to listen (ie. don't make promises I can't keep!) As I've seen on here ... if that question had bothered me, burned a bit or stung ... then it would really be time to evaluate why right? It doesn't ... it's a very reasonable and necessary question.
Peace PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Bought this father's day card ... haven't decided yet if I'm giving it to him or not ... it's still a couple of weeks away so I have some time to make up my mind ...
Originally Posted By: CARD
Cover: A woman can tell a lot about a guy by the kind of dad he is.
Inside: When I see you being a parent, many of the things I appreciate most about you... your patience, your kindness, your fun sense of humour... show up so clearly. You obviously love being a dad, and I love that about you.
You're a wonderful man and an amazing father who really deserves this day... hope you enjoy it! Happy Father's Day!
What do y'all think?
I like that it says 'appreciate' and I like that it doesn't come out and say 'I love you' ... it says 'I love that about you'
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
I went for funny (and no hint of anything that might rub the guilt bone). Now, I don't give him a card. We all go out to eat someplace and I pick up the tab. I say "Happy Father's Day" and have been known to give him a hug. I get why you like the card, I get why it may make him feel bad.
Also, if you're like me at all (I'm a talker), and he's talking, and you are listening.....turn your body towards him, look him in the eyes and really work at not speaking.
I have to tell you that at first, sometimes I didn't really hear what he said b/c my mantra was "shut up, focus, shut up, focus". Ok, I really did hear and I would say validate, just sayin'.
Because I am a talker though, I will not interupt to validate (if I slip, I apologize and ask him to continue) I work really hard at not interjecting anything and I will find different ways of showing my appreciation for his being able to share with me. Sometimes it is verbal and sometimes it is a squeeze on the arm.
Thanks Grace ... I think I knew that when I bought it, and kinda bought it for me. It's how I feel and I like it, but I think I've known right from the start that giving it to him isn't a good idea. Funny it is!
I am a talker! I like the advice ... turn towards him, look him in the eyes, use the 'shut up and focus' mantra ... all great advice for me! It will take practise but I know I can do it. I also like that you don't even interupt to validate ...
Good stuff! Thanks!
He's here cutting grass ... before he leaves (or call him later or something) should I say something like "hey, I'm here to listen whenever you want to talk - we didn't see the MC today so if you wanna go for a walk on the beach or something we can do that" ....
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
When we first got here I did tell him that even if we weren't sitting in front of the MC, I was open to listening whenever he wanted to talk. He said "yeah?" and I confirmed. Then we went to cut the grass.
So, he finished the grass we chatted for a minute and then he left without me mentioning a specific plan to chat or anything ...
It's a work night and I think that unless he calls (not gonna happen!) looking to chat, then I'm happy to let it go. Maybe on family day I'll throw out a casual offer for a walk on the beach or a game of pool or something.
Last time we really talked ... back in early May ... the night he got really emotional ... he started to say a bunch of stuff from his childhood - then he said he felt childish and he got upset and left it alone. Next time we get a chance to chat should I mention that if he wants to talk more about that I'm here to listen? Should I mention that specifically? To let him know that all our talks don't have to be about us - I'm here to listen to anything he needs to talk about?
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Since you've already let him know you are willing to talk, I wouldn't go there again. Not now anyway. What I would do,if he does talk, I'd figure out a way to reinforce it.
What would you say to a male friend that opened up to you about something very private from his past? I would say something like, "Wow, that's some really big stuff you're carrying around. Says something about you that you've been dealing with all that and coping with life in general too." At least, that's close to what I've said to some of my men friends in the past when big stuff has been shared.
You're idea about shooting pool is a good one. It's not as "intimate" as walking on a beach, yet there is room for convos to happen. Just let him start any convo that has anything to do with him. Keep any banter light and fun. I use this type of thing all the time with my D's. Really helpful.
