still separated, headed for D?

[CityGirl]

Here is how I see it. I could be 1000% wrong and way off base. I am merely speaking as an observer.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to be unkind or come down on you. I am just going to spell out the realities as I see it.

You may have been DB'ing for a while but IMO you are DB'ing in a way that makes things very easy for your H.

Your son is little and it is simply too much for him to be exchanged in a parking lot close to bedtime so you accommodate your H by allowing him to come to the house. You are the primary caretaker of your son. That is what your H has chosen. Therefore your H's visiting hours should end earlier so you CAN pick him up in a parking lot at a reasonable hour. If there is no other way to handle it then your H should not be allowed to come in, chat and linger at all.

If your H is unhappy about having less time with his son or having to bring him back earlier, well, tough. This is what your H as chosen.

As your son grows up his needs will change (bedtime, social time, school time and so on) and that means the time your H gets with your son will change too. IMO that tone should have been set a long time ago. You are a single woman/single mom and that is not by choice yet you are accommodating your H way too much.

What have you put in place about your son spending time with the OW?

See, as it stands now your H has the best of both worlds. He has you to be an excellent and trustworthy full time caretaker of his son. He has OW for everything else. I would start making things a little less predictable with your H as far as your son goes. Perhaps then your H will get a good idea of how OW will be once she gets a full taste of what dating a single date with an exW is like.

While this is painful for me to type I have to say I agree that your H, at this time, has no intention of returning to you. Like many other WAS it seems he is doing all he can do to be easy and agreeable so you will eventually "get on board" with a divorce.

Think of all of this as a marketing issue. OW has marketed herself as fun, sexy, worthy of your H's love and affection and the best choice for a intimate and romantic partner. She has done this so effectively she has convinced YOUR husband that she is "the one" despite the fact it means he will get less time with his son AND his family does not approve of her. She has done a bang up job on her marketing campaign.

You have marketed yourself as a loyal, stable and wonderful mother. All very good things but not enough to keep a marriage in tact. Partner that with the fact you and your H do have emotional baggage, well, a good mom is just not enough.

I don't think there is much you can do at this point to really force your H to take pause as IMO you have been very meek/fearful to rock the boat too much and now a grand gesture may look manipulative.

What your H fell in love with (with you I mean) may not be attractive or appealing to him anymore. So you need to repackage yourself as a woman but not "for him" but for you. Looking nice is fine but you need more. What is your definition of the kind of WOMAN you want to be. I know you want to be a wife and mother and that is fine (and amazing and important) but what about the kind of WOMAN you want to be.

IMO you are afraid to really explore that part of yourself because it may not be the kind of W your H wants. So what? He left you while you were pregnant and is still fooling around with his mistress so clearly he is staunch in his choice. That is fine but don't make it so easy for him. You can still show him consequences while being polite.

[newmama]

Don't file to get him to budge! File b/c it is what YOU WANT!

Oops- I knew that would come out wrong! Here is the thing: I would not file just for that reason! Do I want to be divorced? No. Do I want to be in this situation for much longer? No. Do I want the man that my husband is being? No. I want my old husband. SOOO I have accepted that I would be divorcing this warped man and not the man I married.

However the drastic actions are the ones I haven't tried yet. So if I were to do all of those things BEFORE I filed for D, then I truly would feel like I tried it all! Boy am I going to be SCARED though. BUt I am not going to hash it all out now...will wait closer to the date or at my therapist appointment on the 16th.

OK so now I must go back to living in the present if thoughts of WH come up. I will stare at the flowers on my deck, or if S is with me, focus on his beautiful little face and babbles,etc. Or watch TV- not kidding- my mind wanders less when watching a good show versus reading a book where I have to go back and re-read the same few sentences over and over!!!

WN thanks for sticking with me!! Oh and about moving- I would love to move to the next city. What sucks is that it is closer to where OW lives so it would make it more convenient for WH. I would be moving for me though, not him. And next year.

[newmama]

Thanks CG for posting again! You are probably only 500% off base. And I want you to realize that if I argue or debate with you, it is NOT with the intent of nastiness or because I am offended! I just want to explore the pros and cons of every move, you know? Oh and I do wish to explain some of my behavior that you refer to!

You are the primary caretaker of your son. That is what your H has chosen. Sort of-by law in my county, the mother is until a certain age unless she is deemed unfit.

Therefore your H's visiting hours should end earlier so you CAN pick him up in a parking lot at a reasonable hour.

True. my original intent was to be able for WH to see S longer, since I am a SAHM right now. I see him a lot, but I truly was thinking it would be easy to make S' bedtime later since people mess with their baby's schedule all the time to accommodate for working and daycare. Now that it has been 5 weeks of this, it is clear that his bedtime schedule is not changing- and I didn't "see" that until WN pointed it out. (Thank you WN!) Just wanted to explain my rationale.

If there is no other way to handle it then your H should not be allowed to come in, chat and linger at all.

I do wonder about decency of me letting him use the bathroom (I was not kidding about his prostate). And what about needing to update each other about S? It is actually required legally in the parenting plan and other docs from our county that we must share information with the other parent. I need to look up the wording!

If your H is unhappy about having less time with his son or having to bring him back earlier, well, tough. This is what your H as chosen. You are correct!!!!

As your son grows up his needs will change (bedtime, social time, school time and so on) and that means the time your H gets with your son will change too.

Yep, all laid out in the parenting plan when I return to work.

IMO that tone should have been set a long time ago.

I wanted my WH to bond with S and vice versa. So I thought that in order for that to happen, he would need to see him all of the time. (this was a legitimate fear of mine since my dad abandoned me as a child )

I also thought that the more that WH spent over here, the more he would see my changes. I ended up becoming the Taker in our marriage so I had a lot of work to do. When you have like 10 or more improvements to make, it takes a looooong time to tackle that list!


Also, I didn't want my S to bond with OW! Oh and I really liked the idea that if WH was over here, he wasn't with OW and that OW probably didn't like the idea of WH spending time with me and his son.

You know something? Whenever I have to explain that to someone (which I do a LOT), it always makes me feel proud afterward! Like I DID know what I was doing! People are good at trying to make me doubt my decision to try and save my marriage- they think because WH cheated then there is no hope and he is scum.

In the parenting plan, it said S can have 1 overnight per week starting at 6 months of age. So I was following the parenting plan.

You are a single woman/single mom and that is not by choice yet you are accommodating your H way too much.

What have you put in place about your son spending time with the OW?
I looked into this legally and there is nothing to stop OW from getting to see S unless I had some kind of evidence that she was a harmful threat to S...like if she was abusive, or a drug addict or something like that. Again, one of the reasons why I let WH see S at the house was so that OW wouldn't get to see S!

While this is painful for me to type I have to say I agree that your H, at this time, has no intention of returning to you. Like many other WAS it seems he is doing all he can do to be easy and agreeable so you will eventually "get on board" with a divorce.

Hey, from 4/28-5/15 I would have agreed with you! I realize you haven't been able to follow my thread the whole time. But I did finally stop fighting WH on divorce when he brought it up on 4/28. In my book, that is me "getting on board" with the divorce. I won't repeat everything else but there was nothing in WH's way to just give me the papers!

I just read Mr.Lost telling a poster whose H has been separated from her for 2 years that

Men typically see things as a sort of "seek and destroy" mission. We try to see the end game and work towards that. If your husband decided that divorce was the inevitable end, he would have gotten one. The fact that he has chosen to live life separate, but has not asked for divorce says to me that he doesn't know how to fix the marriage, but isn't quite ready for the divorce.

I would start making things a little less predictable with your H as far as your son goes. Perhaps then your H will get a good idea of how OW will be once she gets a full taste of what dating a single date with an exW is like.

Ok will this is what I have seen other exWs act like (like when I dated a couple of men with exWs) but it is not in my character and I don't NEED my WH if he doesn't want to be my H so I won't be relying on him for these:

1) they called for money
2) they changed the schedule at last minute or picked up/dropped off the kids late
3) they called just to talk about the kids for some reason
4) they asked for favors with the house (like help getting things fixed)

when I say this is out of my character, I mean that I saw this as naggy, manipulative behavior....OW's character for sure! I do not wish to compete with those kinds of behaviors. If he wants a woman like that, fine,he doesn't want me!

What I have done is contacted WH about pertinent issues only. Made arrangements about a week ahead minimum to change the schedule. Changed visitation to take place not at my house so I assume it is aat OW's house where she also has a 3.5 year old (he is shacking up with her but hasn't changed his address yet). Golly can't think of anything else.

What your H fell in love with (with you I mean) may not be attractive or appealing to him anymore.

Yeah, I know this, which is another reason why I am willing to divorce him if he doesn't want to R. If he wants OW, then he wants a Jerry Springer woman.

The way I have been acting, in your words you describe as "meek and fearful," (lol! because I am a woman who gets what she wants in life! I just don't like yelling and screaming and arguing with people!) was intentional. Classy, not trashy. I do not ever enjoy or want to have huge conflicts with dramatic button pushing like "making him jealous" or "throwing his stuff on the lawn" etc.

IMO you are afraid to really explore that part of yourself because it may not be the kind of W your H wants.

No, I am being the woman I want to be. I never made changes that I didn't want for myself. You may not have kept up with all the changes I have made since Oct 2009 but none have to do with character; just hobbies and overcoming some fears.

Like took different classes, learned to swim, learned to cook, joined meetup groups, done yard and house improvements, learned (more) about what it takes to make relationships work, and I know I am missing something. You see I already "know" what kind of woman I am! and I "know" what kind I am not.

All of this "meek and fearful" work that I have done was because I truly believed WH would have ended the A long ago. And when he dropped discussion of divorce for 5 months after I started MORE of the "meek and fearful" work, I figured it showed he was having doubts about Ding and my efforts were paying off. In March, I was sincerely shocked that he brought it up again!

I finally came to the conclusion (well since March 2010) that it is possible that my WH was not who I thought he was and he wants a Jerry Springer trashy ho to play around with, go out in public with, and help raise his son. Slutty women don't necessarily harm kids...and I do trust the fathering instinct in my WH enough to realize that if OW did anything to jeopardize S' well being, he would protect S, but rest assured, I would have no qualms calling the police.

Oh but because she is a drama-pot stirring-trashy Jerry Springer Ho, I COMPLETELY expect her to freak out on WH since he has told me he wanted to D me 2x since March and hasn't taken action on the few hours of paperwork required.


Ok...thanks for the tough questions and comments to help me see things from another angle! I hope we are all caught up now and maybe you might have learned some things about me that you didn't know before!

[CityGirl]

I actually took a bit of time to read your entire situation (both threads posted in your signature, not sure if there is more or not?).

What I mean by "being the kind of woman you want" is not to say you need to change your character. I just wanted to express to you the importance of reinventing yourself for you and not what you think your H would like.

Like you said earlier tonight you thought you might tell H you were going on a date (please pardon me if that was not you and I am mixing up threads, I have been working for like 16 hours!). If you really do have a date then GREAT (rock on!) but if you are saying it to get a reaction from your H then you might want to think over the plan. You don't seem like a manipulative person so why start now?

I also agree that dramatic exchanges littered with conflict and BS are not healthy, appropriate or ladylike and I never endorse them. I think it is very possible to be strong AND ladylike at the same time. I understand you are strong, hell you have to be to go through a pregnancy, birth AND a separation/affair alone. I just mean be strong for you and make the decision not to "wait and see anymore" about your H because as a woman you deserve better. It is well established you are the better option as a friend, mother and life partner for your H. We all see it but your H does not.

In your first thread you said you delivered ultimatums to your H and he reluctantly came back. Clearly asking him to make a choice did not work. So you did a 180 and went the other way to show him you are the better option. That has not worked either. In both case scenarios you gave your H all the power. It is time for you to take back your personal power.

I understand why you did what you did... having your H over to lessen the time he spent with OW but that didn't really work though as now they live together. I understand you wanting your H to bond with your son but sadly, no matter how much you may want that your H chose something else. He chose to bond with his son "part time" so he could have OW. He did not choose to bond with his son full time so he could have a family. IMO that is not a "good guy".

Your H is a good father because YOU have provided the foundation for that. Aren't you tired of carrying the whole load?

I understand legally your may not be able to keep OW from your son but I see no problem with having a frank discussion with your H about it. The law might say one thing but that doesn't mean you can't ask for something different between you and your H.

When I said some of your actions are "meek and fearful" I didn't mean to imply you were a shrinking violet sitting in the corner. I guess what I mean is you seem afraid to be less accommodating to your H because you worry for your son. That is understandable but YOU are a GREAT AND FULL TIME PARENT. Your H has chosen something else. You should not ever protect your son from that no matter what his age is.

I can't even begin to fathom what it takes to be pregnant and be a single mom while going through this BS with separation and affairs. For that you have my full praise and respect.

Lastly, what I meant about giving your H and OW a good taste of what life will look like if you divorce I don't mean you should start bugging them. I mean you should not accommodate ANYTHING in THEIR lives when it comes to your son.

If your H lives with OW it's funny how your H has NO PROBLEM being around "full time" for OW's child but not his own. IMO that speaks volumes.

I sort of get the vibe you think I am always looking for the negative. I always have hope (what do we have without it) but I also tend to look at the realities of the situation.

Your H may respect you as a mother (and he should!) but like you said, he hasn't even come forward and told you he is living with OW even though you know he is. Clearly he does not respect you as a woman if he can't even tell you where he lives. And don't buy that BS that he is not telling you so you don't get more hurt. He is not telling you because he doesn't want to deal with his own actions.

Personally I would like to use all 5 foot 3 inches of myself to kick your husband right in the face. I think he is being a selfish fool. I worry because IMO it seems to me you are ALLOWING him to be a selfish fool with you. Let him go be a selfish fool with OW but stop it now with you. I don't doubt you will find a classy yet firm way to do that.

xoxox
CityGirl

[newmama]

Holy crap- I didn't have to do a recap after all? You have read all of my threads? wow! Thank you!

I sort of get the vibe you think I am always looking for the negative. I always have hope (what do we have without it) but I also tend to look at the realities of the situation.

I don't think you look for the negative! I think you are tough love! To me there is a difference. I just don't agree with you(at this time) that WH is dead set on divorcing me and that it is inevitable.

You are correct- I did say I would do everything I haven't done during the 4th week from now before filing for D which included saying I had a date! I don't know..argh! But I do think I NEED to take a break from strategizing and do what I said I should do a few posts back- not post/analyze WH's behavior, stick to short and sweet exchanges, discuss S' bedtime schedule and then during S' birthday, bring up D.

That has not worked either. In both case scenarios you gave your H all the power. It is time for you to take back your personal power.

I see what you are saying. If a month doesn't make much of a difference, it does to me in carefully planning out what I will do and how (not the easy part of the divorce but how to talk to WH about it) but you haven't disagreed with me about OW freaking out!

I just don't see the point in discussing OW and S to him. Seriously- what will come of it? What are the benefits? I don't get it!

[CityGirl]

I didn't say your H was dead set on divorcing you. What I think is he has no plans to return to the marriage. Honestly, why would he divorce you? IMO the only reason he would is to appease OW. He has it pretty good right now as I see it. What incentive does he have to do anything different? He has none. He can live with the OW (and not even be honest about it) and still get the very best "mothering" parts of you. Not a bad gig if you can get it!

Your H knows you would take him back and you want the marriage to work. The person who cares least about the R controls it and that is illustrated by the fact he can be the kind of guy who leaves his pregnant W and somehow in the end he has no consequences, two women who want him and a very easy part time arrangement with his son. Do you really want to be part of that equation anymore?

I guess I have to ask why on Earth you chose to remain part of that triangle for so long?

I don't know if there are any benefits to discussing the OW and your son with your H. The way I read it, it seemed to me (again, pardon me if I am off base) that it was a concern of yours but you felt legally you really couldn't do much about it. I don't have children so this might be terrible insight but I see no problem with asking your H what role exactly OW will play in your son's life.

And, I am not really sure what you need to talk to your H about (RE: a divorce). Like you said you have a parenting plan in place and an asset division plan in place. You have been open, kind and more than compassionate despite his behavior. IMO all you need to do is get the paperwork, sign it and have him served. He certainly didn't bend over backwards and get your input on HIS decisions so follow suit and do what is best for you.

I have no idea if the OW will freak out or not. And really, who cares? Women who think it is okay to sleep with a married man (who happens to have a pregnant wife) because it feels good don't have the moral fortitude to even know what they *should* be freaking out about. Not only is OW a bad influence on your son but your H is too as that is what your H chose.

And again I ask you... your H has no problem being there full time for OW's son since they all live together but is only there part time for his BIOLOGICAL son he shares with you. Yet somehow you feel your H is worthy of a discussion about divorce?

[mindfull]

Newmama -

Hi!!!

I've been following along, very little to say...

However, I have something to say now, and it's EXACTLY what CityGirl said!

And, I am not really sure what you need to talk to your H about (RE: a divorce). Like you said you have a parenting plan in place and an asset division plan in place. You have been open, kind and more than compassionate despite his behavior. IMO all you need to do is get the paperwork, sign it and have him served. He certainly didn't bend over backwards and get your input on HIS decisions so follow suit and do what is best for you.

You need to move on. You're a beautiful woman.

[Mrs. A]

Hi Newmama--

For some of us who are children of divorced parents, and suffered because of it, and now find ourselves in a similar situation, the motivation for not filing runs really deep. I can totally relate. Like you, I have had a lot of people tell me to "move on" and "stop letting WH take advantage." If that was as easy as it sounds, then sure, I would have filed. But (like all of us) I am a complicated person and so is my WH, and every situation, of course, is unique. In my case, making the decision to file and thus letting my WH off the hook, so to speak, would have been a really bad decision, for many reasons. Just telling you to remind you that, in the end, only *we* know what "boundaries" are most important for ourselves.

Of course nobody has to tell you that - you already know! I *love* (as posted above) that you can look back at your behavior and feel proud! You should - I'm proud of you just from reading along!!

With all respect, admiration, and support,
Mrs. A

[gatsby11]

Hey NM!

Lots of thoughts here, huh? Looking forward to your reply. I support whatever you want to do because you know your sitch best.

However the drastic actions are the ones I haven't tried yet. So if I were to do all of those things BEFORE I filed for D, then I truly would feel like I tried it all! Boy am I going to be SCARED though.

I know you're going to think about this more in July, but I think the fact that it scares you (not that that's wrong!) shows that it's a REAL 180!

[newmama]

Not only is OW a bad influence on your son but your H is too as that is what your H chose.

I have no choice in this matter. none. LET IT GO. I have.