still separated, headed for D?

[WhatNow]

You are right Mystik, it is a process. It is not just cutting one cord. There are some you want to keep (ie kid related) and some you cut. Just when you think you have detached, something happens and you find another cord.

[newmama]

OK, thanks WN- cake eating is letting him enjoy interactions with me while he is still with OW. correct???

And I was thinking of something--probably over analyzing--but
this week (super long it seems) here are some things

Monday
me: put together toy kitchen, discussed schedule for the week
WH: commented on how WE could add some hinges to the toy kitchen, lingered at the house

Tuesday
me: dropped off S but didn't get out of the car; didn't interact much
WH: nothing to report

Wednesday
me: texted WH to let him know about S' cough; asked for advice
WH: replied

Thursday
WH: texts me to check on S
me: I reply and ask if he is still golfing

Friday
WH: texts me to let me know about BIL
me: I reply and thank him, make a comment


me: when WH arrives to pick up S, I initiate conversation about S, BIL, golf
WH: replies but not with a lot of detail


SO what I see (maybe) is that he is feeling comfortable to initiate contact with me...(my boundaries are loosening?) but yesterday when I was chatty cathy he didn't exactly reciprocate. Maybe I came on too strong.Like an excited puppy?

Therefore, cake eating or not, today I need to just limit my interaction again. I do have a couple of things to tell him or ask but I really can wait until another time to do it; later this week. Maybe wait until I see him initiate or linger with relaxed behavior. I need to do what Gatsby had posted and mentally and physically release tension.


Gosh this is reminiscent of something...the dance of dating almost. I mean you need to let the guy know you are interested but the trick is to let him take the lead. If they ask you out, you say yes and then wait for them to call you. If they call after the date, you let them know you had a good time and would like to do it again (showing interest) but let them be the one to ask next...be patient and not freak out if you don't get a call the next day. Relax and know it might not happen for a week even because he is probably dating other women!

So if my excited puppy behavior showed I was interested (damnit!) then it's his turn to do anything else.

[CityGirl]

I can't recall... what is the status of your H and OW? Do they live together?

Either way, as an observer, it seems to me your H limits his exchanges with you to matters about your son. Every so often he will toss you a crumb and let you know something else (ex: family illness) but otherwise it is all about your child.

It seems he wants to be a good father and is trying to create a R with you that is mom/dad but has yet to make any effort in creating a man/woman R with you.

I am not trying to be ugly but it does seem you allow your H to cake eat. He has zero consequences for his actions.

I would go as dim as possible, drop the rope fully and put your focus on something else. Start showing him what a legal divorce will look like. Right now he has the best of both worlds IMO. You as the stable and great mom who is pleasant to her spouse and he has the OW who gets all the romance, fun, sex and intimate attention. I would remove myself from that equation (and yes, I had to do that as well with my H). Recently my H has been contacting me (we virtually have no contact) quite often with very nostalgic and loving messages. As long as he is living with OW he gets nothing from me ever again.

I will never be an OW to ANYBODY, even if the "anybody" happens to be my legal husband.

[WhatNow]

Cake-eating is H getting his needs met by you that OW can't meet. It is having both of you with out consequences for him.

Gosh this is reminiscent of something...the dance of dating almost. I mean you need to let the guy know you are interested but the trick is to let him take the lead. If they ask you out, you say yes and then wait for them to call you. If they call after the date, you let them know you had a good time and would like to do it again (showing interest) but let them be the one to ask next...be patient and not freak out if you don't get a call the next day. Relax and know it might not happen for a week even because he is probably dating other women!

I think this is detached behavior! Where you are not reacting to him but choosing how to respond.

[WhatNow]

I would go as dim as possible, drop the rope fully and put your focus on something else. Start showing him what a legal divorce will look like. Right now he has the best of both worlds IMO.

nm...when you started to do this recently, his behavior did change. This is when he became sheepish, kinda pouty, awkward.

[newmama]

Hi, CG, I know you aren't intending to sound ugly- I am familiar with your tough love style and helpful support on lots of threads!

You are correct in observing that my WH seems to limit interactions to mother-father stuff. But I believe I have been doing the same on my end! Oh sure, he will tell me about how he is sick or the weather or something little like that.

So when you say he has zero consequences for his behavior are you saying that because I haven't divorced him?

I did pull away the option of letting him see S over here at the house, which means he doesn't have access to getting to hang out, share observations of S with me, share other conversation, eat meals that I cooked, be in his house....I don't know what else he really got out of being here.

I mean at this point I don't see what more I can do for consequences...

You as the stable and great mom who is pleasant to her spouse

So he is getting a stable and great mom (THANK YOU for thinking that btw!) to his son...and the other thing I am giving him is acting pleasant.

and he has the OW who gets all the romance, fun, sex and intimate attention.

Ok, just to debate this in order to really understand better, I see NO WAY that I am filling ANY of the needs he gets from OW at this time. Acting pleasant (like I would to my neighbor)hardly compares to the list of needs that OW is filling for him! Seriously, is the reason why he hasn't divorced me yet because I am acting pleasant when he meet for 2-5 minutes to drop off and exchange S?

A total of 14-30 minutes maximum each week? Like if I were to remove the pleasant interaction then he would dump OW and come back to me?

I just have some core things that I refuse to budge on about who I am and being polite is not something I planned to change if we divorced.

I also refuse to give him any physical touch or affection or LM while he is with OW--something others have suggested to me in the past!

When you say he needs to start seeing what it would be like if we were legally divorce, he IS seeing it (since 4/28).

we follow the parenting plan
he pays money
he picks up and drops off S
we don't communicate unless it as about S
we don't live together


so what else does a divorced scenario look like? I mean I would be dating eventually. That's the only difference.

Again, I realize it sounds defensive but sincerely I want to understand.

I would remove myself from that equation (and yes, I had to do that as well with my H). Recently my H has been contacting me (we virtually have no contact) quite often with very nostalgic and loving messages.

I will go back and read your thread! For some reason I thought you divorced.

But, I do know from experience that it is 10000x easier to go NC without kids. When I went NC last year for the final trimester of my pregnancy, I was flawless at it! (I did see him 3 times as planned but other than that NOTHING!!!!)

I am just feeling close to the end, so to speak. Either the end of the A or the end of our marriage. I am in the final leg of the race. So at this point, I am betting money that OW is going to bug him more and more about why he hasn't divorced me yet. I am not bringing up a word about it until S' birthday.
I am betting OW will be getting nasty by then.

you can definitely argue/debate with me! Please do!

[newmama]

I was re-reading what I posted and do not mean to sound stuck in my ways....I will not be contacting WH this week, and I won't initiate ANY conversation this week. That means it will look like this
me: "hi, look it's daddy!" hand S over.
WH: "how is he?"
me: "seems pretty good!"
WH: "what time do you want me to bring him back?"
me: "the usual- 8:30-9! Ok bye bye S! See you tonight!"

what do you think of that? I get to be polite but short and sweet.

[newmama]

So today's interaction- WH texted to see if he could drop off S any earlier. I said sure.

Then he arrived and said "we were over at SIL's. But it was the funniest thing- they didn't seem to pay much attention to S! It was like everyone was running around and getting ready for the boy's baseball game."

me: "oh, that sounds kind of rude. Did she know you guys were coming over?"

WH: "yep!"

haha! I bet my SIL is just pissed off at him and was being rude on purpose! why doesn't he get that? duh! He knows she doesn't approve of OW! (no I do not think OW came along. But I do wonder why he had to find something to do this morning- had to get out of OW's house for some reason!)

Then I asked about when S slept last. WH told me, excused himself to use the bathroom, returned and told me that S wasn't sleeping well and normally he sleeps through the night but was up between 1-3 last night (HAHA!! sorry, not for S!)

Then I asked if S had been coughing and WH told me only a little but to watch out because he had to get antibiotics for bronchitis. So I said I would check it out. Then I said I might be getting his cold because my throat was sore or maybe it just was from last night. Of course WH didn't respond to that comment but he heard it!

He said something to me about children's tylenol still not being on the shelves, then said he would see us on Monday. I thanked him for switching nights with me.

I didn't read your guys' posts until after this took place but at least I did not initiate anything other than "when did S sleep?" and "did your sister know you guys were coming?" and "did S cough more?" and I purposely wanted to mention my throat (my voice is hoarse today) so that I could imply I was doing something fun last night!

[CityGirl]

I am legally separated from my H. In this nutty state that means you are still married in the legal sense but the dissolution of assets has been complete. We went this route after a nearly 2 year court battle in a 'fault state'.

My H and I have not lived together since April of 08 and became legally separated mid Nov. 2009.

My H requested via the courts we remain legally separated until Nov. of 2012 but I do have the option to file for divorce in Nov. of this year if I so choose.

I am not trying to argue with you either. I am just pointing out my observations. I agree that not being polite is not the way to go to anybody.

While your list of what a divorce would look like is a small start I think there might be more. Health insurance, retirement, college for your son, him signing over the house to you many other "big ticket" items aren't mentioned in your list.

A marriage is a tremendous commitment and if your H chooses not to follow through it is in your best interest to be compensated for your time you did put in the marriage.

I would remove all trace aspects of your H in your home. If your son wants photos of his dad around keep them in his room.

I would eliminate the drop offs/pick ups at your house and find a neutral spot.

If you have family or a close friend I would send them to drop off son every now and again so your H really gets what it will be like to have next to no contact with you and he also may wonder what is keeping you so busy.

Your H expects polite and that is fine... manners are lovely to have and I agree they are very important. Your H has not seen detached and polite though IMO.

From what I have read your H seems like a decent dad with the time he spends with your son and the care he gives him. A big part of the reason your H is able to be a decent dad is the tremendous effort you put forth in being a fabulous mother. I would bet my last dollar your H has deep, deep respect and admiration for you as a mother. What I don't see from your H is any respect for you as a woman/romantic partner.

You get all the logistics (taking care of house and son) and your H is very comfortable with that. OW gets all the fun, sex, romance and intimacy. Your H has two women in his life and both serve a separate function. If you no longer care to serve the function as "mom only" in your H's eyes then only you can change that.

You have been separated for some time and while this is painful to realize, your H has made no shift in seeing you as a woman and not just your son's mom. And why would he? He has the OW for the "other stuff".

That is exactly why I cut my H off. I will be damned if he used me as his emotional sounding board (hard times at work, difficult family situations he had to deal with, help with bills and bitching to me when he had a fight with OW) yet she got all the fun, sex, love and romance. Sorry, pal.

My H and OW moved in together about 6 weeks ago (which my H informed me of over a series of eleven text messages). I gather things are not quite what he thought they would be because now I am on his mind again. He could have had it ALL with me or he can keep having "partial" with OW.

Your H's OW will NEVER be a mom like you are. Take comfort in knowing your H was stupid enough to walk away from having it all with you for "partial" with OW.

[gatsby11]

Hey, NM!

Cake-eating is a really gray area. Because it seems that in true detachment, you WOULD act as you do-- pleasant and reserved. Because that's what you would do with anybody.

At the same time, that doesn't give him 'consequences' from you, I suppose. It would be worse for him if you were a b*tch every time he came by. But it wouldn't change his behavior. At least not in my opinion. You might feel like you were doing something, but I don't really think you would be. You would just be revealing your hurt.

To me, the best way in thinking of "how to act" is act like you were already remarried.

Because someday you may be! Maybe even with that one guy from last night-- NOT the 51 year old. I can't believe he patted your butt, that's actually really WRONG.

Now, all that said, I have to say that I do regret being friendly with my WH last week when he came over. Sort of. I have the feeling now of letting out all my frustrations to his face. (Even though I've done it before.) But that really just shows less detachment. So I can be okay with how it went. But I am going to avoid WH as much as I can after the baby is born by using his family! That is my middle-ground for now.

Well, now, let me ask. Imagine you are remarried and totally head over heels for your new H. Maybe you even have a new baby on the way. How would you want S's visitation to go? Would you still have WH come over and all of that?