And before anyone says it , I know it sounds like Im "rationalizing " but thats really not the case.
You are wrong. Rationalizing is exactly what you are doing.
You aren't fooling some of us, but it looks like you have yourself fooled. Rationalizing will do that to you. That is why they call it rationalizing. The person doing the rationalizing actually believes what they are telling themselves and finds any and all reasons to keep on doing what they want to do to keep from facing reality.
How interesting that it is YOU who is telling the her that you need to show her that you trust her....
I mean this same type of thing happened three years ago. I mean why should any man not trust a woman who lied about moving back in with her ex husband? Why would any man not trust a woman who wants to take her ex husband to a concert with a man who ask her to go as a friend. No reason for you to even worry anyways since you are only trying to be friends huh?
Yea, she is different all right... Keep on rationalizing... I bet she has told him that you and her were only friends all these years. After all, she could say to him that she would have gotten married if she really loved you huh? Think he would believe that? Love the one you are with.
No , I AM facing reality. The reality that we may NEVER be able to fix this. The reality that she may be lying to me about her current sitch. Yea , Im sure she told him we were only friends this whole time when he KNOWS we have two kids together. Really ??? Cmon man. And NO, I said to her that we BOTH have to be able to trust each other. I burned that for her with MY inability to do what she needed and asked me to do, that I said I could and would do and even did for awhile before slacking off. Thats the truth and I have to live with it.
I burned that for her with MY inability to do what she needed and asked me to do, that I said I could and would do and even did for awhile before slacking off. Thats the truth and I have to live with it.
AND you should be telling her that SHE burned it for YOU too.
You can't see that YOU are chasing her even though she is the one saying she has no trust in you? YOU are the one trying to prove that you can be trusted.
So the reality here is that the one who isn't trusting the other person is the one being chased. You don't see that? The one chasing is the one NOT trusted. The one being chased is the one who doesn't trust. So the reality to me is that what SHE is doing is the thing that is working. Not vice versa. She is getting you to chase her. I will tell you. She KNOWS that you are justified by not trusting her. She secretly should EXPECT that you shouldn't trust her. It wouldn't hurt you one bit by telling her you don't trust her and standing strong on that belief. She wants trut from you then she should earn it by moving out on her own. She knows she has you chasing and she knows that she is doing the very thing that she wouldn't in any way want YOU to do. Go ahead, get another woman to move in with you and do the same thing and see what she says. Try it. I would venture to say that it would be you that would say. "I won't do that because I don't want her to think that I have someone else." Then bring another woman to sit with you at the concert.
I burned that for her with MY inability to do what she needed and asked me to do, that I said I could and would do and even did for awhile before slacking off. Thats the truth and I have to live with it.
AND you should be telling her that SHE burned it for YOU too.
You can't see that YOU are chasing her even though she is the one saying she has no trust in you? YOU are the one trying to prove that you can be trusted.
So the reality here is that the one who isn't trusting the other person is the one being chased. You don't see that? The one chasing is the one NOT trusted. The one being chased is the one who doesn't trust. So the reality to me is that what SHE is doing is the thing that is working. Not vice versa. She is getting you to chase her. I will tell you. She KNOWS that you are justified by not trusting her. She secretly should EXPECT that you shouldn't trust her. It wouldn't hurt you one bit by telling her you don't trust her and standing strong on that belief. She wants trut from you then she should earn it by moving out on her own. She knows she has you chasing and she knows that she is doing the very thing that she wouldn't in any way want YOU to do. Go ahead, get another woman to move in with you and do the same thing and see what she says. Try it. I would venture to say that it would be you that would say. "I won't do that because I don't want her to think that I have someone else." Then bring another woman to sit with you at the concert.
Now THAT was ALOT clearer gucci, thanks. Yes I have told her I don't trust her, and she has acknowledged and validated that. As for telling her to move out as "proof" that's simply not an option. She doesn't make enough to have a place of her own, pay the bills , take care of the kids, etc. She has no nearby family that has room, etc. Which is why the current arrangement is convenient and comfortable for her. She doesn't have to worry about having a roof over her head. I understand her motivations for this, at least on a large level, maybe not the entire picture but a significant portion of it.
In fact thats one of my biggest concerns. His place is free and clear except for taxes and utilities. There is NO way I can support all four of us by myself, I just dont make enough, and living in one of the most expensive States in the Country, with the highest property taxes makes it almost impossible.
My Dad and Step mother make over 100k a year clear and THEY are struggling. I dont make even half that amount.
I KNOW she has a VERY unrealistic idea of what it takes financially to raise a family, from her own words. We had been planning to move one State over, where housing is much more affordable and we would only be an hour or so away from relatives, but she announced yesterday that she WILL NOT leave the State, even if it means she will never be able to own a house, either on her own, with him , someone else , or us. Thats something she's talked about wanting for YEARS. Now, that maybe just her emotions talking right now or it may be how she really feels.
All I know is I cant possibly offer her a place to live thats decent, that she wouldnt have to go to work to help pay for, I just cant. I asked her yesterday if she resented having to work and she admitted " sometimes" I know she feels like she's missing everything with our son since she was working so much the last few months and he's growing like a weed.
Raising our kids myself would be a HUGE load for me by myself also, but I have the income to do it ( barely ). Thats one of the things thats making this so hard. I genuinely feel the kids would be better off with me as primary, plus the added benefit that it would naturally trigger her desire to be around us more.
But she's already admitted that my filing for custody triggered flashbacks for her of losing her first two kids that she had with him. And that will only stoke fierce resentment towards me ( she didnt say the words but I know how she would take it ) and the last thing I need right now is for her to be feeling even MORE angry towards me, especially after the tiny crack in the wall that appeared yesterday, however briefly.
I know the confusion and pain. I know that you are telling us everything. I know you are 'trying' to draw a line in the sand and show us how you are taking actions.
But you are not taking the right actions and mind set.
I believed that my WAW's OM 'friend' was platonic. It wasn't.
I believed it was a symptom of our issues, It wasn't.
I believed as you believe.................
Take control. Set the agenda's
Get legal advice.
Do not share YOUR woman.
Can you control your finances - if you can, cut her off from your money.
Most of all.
You must allow only one thought to help you choose your actions.
You must do what is right, not what you think may ease the situation.
When you take this mind set she will react with anger. Expect the anger.
Read my sitch from the start - there are 2 distinct parts.
Gyn.
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
let her have the kids for a couple weekends. explain the situation to work if they don't already know, and ask for a couple of Fridays off. grab a knapsack and fill it with a tarp, a thin quilt, waterproof matches, the minimal amount of food to sustain you, some whiskey, a knife, a couple band aids, a water bottle, then walk into the woods a day and a half turn around and walk back.
Monday back to the grind, spend a couple of your free hours during the week thinking about how you can lessen your load, be more waterproof, be faster, the further you can walk the better.
The second or third best thing I did in my entire Divorce Busting experience thus far.
The objective of the experiment is to KNOW YOURSELF and what is the least amount of other things YOU required to survive in the harshest conditions. Relying just on YOURSELF to solve any situation YOU are presented with and make opportunities out of them.
Realize there is the possibility to suffer, get injured, stress your body to the maximum. But YOU are wholly dependent on YOU to minimize those with successful solutions.
In response to your comment, I carry whiskey in case I am shot to sterilize the wound if I need to use my knife to dig the bullet out (I carry 1 cigarette in case that happens also). I also have a handmade quilt and a sheet of spinnaker, a 24oz Heineken can with the top can opener-ed off for a cup, caffeinated strawberry crystal light, rope, never enough food but i doubt I'd eat bugs like survivor man, petzel headlamp, other things grabbed from around the house.
Spending the night between rocks in a thundershower with only a garbage bag and a cup of soup, unable to make a fire is torment; winning a girl requires a little arrogance in that you only rely on yourself, knowing nothing is impossible, and that you are pretty impressive doing it.
KNOW YOURSELF. or you could take a girl wearing daisy dukes and a tank top to the rawk show and see if your wife is only playing with your mind and the taught of you moving on and finding someone else makes her realize you are an important and exclusive part of her life - or if she is done and is in love with someone else - or herself and is learning what it takes to be an individual, rely on herself, survive on only what she is capable of and the opportunities she can make for herself.
I have lived with the relationship for 14 years. I don't know what else to say. There are plenty of guys that she's had friendships with that were NEVER ANYTHING more then strictly that, NOT EA's , NOT PA's . JUST FRIENDS. I'm not asking anyone to believe it. But I LIVED IT and KNOW that's the reality.
I know a lady named boobzilla. She's got more guy friends than girlfriends. I don't know what they see in her; she's got ugly feet, always talking about problems in her marriage, can't handle her whiskey. But still they hang out, buy her drinks, text message her, post on her bookface.
Turned out when her husband finally moved out, she had done a few of them and started dating some of the others.
14 years of marriage : people grow apart, they stop doing it for each other, hormone levels change, same old, same old. Keep that in mind as you do what you got to do.
Or listen to you and try and ease your pain.......?
I listen to, but, discounted the advice I was given because I could say 'only I know the full story' and 'you don't know me...'
Sound familiar.......?
Listen to the vets.
Your pain is real. You are not imagining it.
Your choice is very difficult. But if you are where I was - and I hope you will not be..
Then the advice you are getting is excellent
'you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.........' You are the horse.
Choose your path...............
Gyn
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
Today is a down day for sure. Not only because the kids go to her today until tomorrow night at 7PM but also because I've been pondering things. I'm REALLY glad I got to take my daughter to the concert yesterday, and NO I didn't see or sit with the WAW at all.But even though I had fun with my daughter, it was still somewhat torturous, because thats the first time I've been to the show in a couple years ( they have it every year) and it was something we used to do as a couple, plus knowing she was somewhere in the crowd, but not even sitting with us.
I know on an intellectual level what I can accept as far whatever she's done, doing or planning to do with the EX, I know this because I can accept it and deal with it and let it go if it means in the end we are reconciled. Of that I am sure, in fact thats one of the few things I AM sure of right now.
But I started analyzing some of the other clues I heard the other day when we spoke face to face for four hours and some of the other things I've been told recently via text.
If you go back a couple posts/pages. There was a moment in our conversation when I expressed my frustration to her that she now had everything she wanted that I wasn't giving her. And she replied with " I don't have everything I want because I don't have you !" which I didn't acknowledge visibly but was a HUGE boost for me mentally. Then there was also the fact that she didn't recoil when she was starting to get upset and I took a chance and stroked her shoulder.
But then I remembered something else she said, earlier in the same conversation that I didnt pick up on immediately. At one point she promised me that she would never let our kids call him "Daddy". Well , why even say such a thing unless this is, in her mind , a long term R with him ? It just doesnt make sense and sounds so final.
She also mentioned NOT wanting me to " only have supervised visitation ". Which I have NO reason to think is even something I would need to worry about. Sounds like something fed to her by someone, maybe her attorney. Guess I'll have to look into what the guidelines/parameters are in this State for such a thing to try and figure out if this is a bluff of some kind.
I'm not worried about beating the allegations in the TRO, ( maybe I should be, not because anything actually happened, it didn't. But for how it can be spun ) but I have the audio CD from the County Dispatch Center of MY Non-emergency call to them the night before SHE made the allegations, where I predicted that's what she would do.
Even though she's already agreed to drop it, it sounds like she's considering holding it over my head as a cudgel to bear if I don't agree to what she wants as far as custody goes, which she has made clear is for them to live with HER, with me having unlimited visitation/staying at my place, which she said she would agree to in writing.
Then today we exchanged texts that were civil up till the very end. In the texts she cautioned me that ALOT of people were supposedly interested in seeing me arrested for even speaking to her, something that she NEVER mentioned the other day. I asked who these people were that all of a sudden were saying this, since we just talked on Fri and there was no mention of such a thing. I said I didn't want to talk about it now, but I DID want to hear more about this soon, since less then 48 hours later no such thing was even on the radar.
The fact is I KNOW Im not in a position to fight two battles at once. Im already stretched to the limit and borrowing money just to fight the TRO allegations. The firm I have are well known experts in dealing with this stuff and the owner of the firm sort of knows me and is being extremely generous with working with me on fee's, but he's made it clear although he knows how to handle custody/family law cases, its not his specialty or something he wants to get involved with outside the scope of the immediate issue's surrounding the TRO. So that means having to hire ANOTHER, different attorney for the custody issue, and thats just about impossible for me to swing right now and for at least the next few months.
Plus the fact that it is well known that judges are particularly reluctant to upset the " norm " when it comes to kids, this originally worked in my favor , for obvious reasons. But if I give in and let them stay with her, then when Im in a financial position to actually fight her, she will have had several months of them living with her which will mean an uphill fight.
My God this is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO difficult and confusing to figure out what to do.............................
I KNOW deeply what I WANT, but its a monumental struggle to figure out the different decisions to make to give me the best shot at making my wants a reality.
I KNOW that me having primary custody will toss a huge monkey wrench in her plans and there's at least a 50/50 chance it will force her to re evaluate her decision to separate.
I seriously doubt I would be so twisted up about this if it was ANYONE else but her EX.
ARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I asked a couple pages back and never got an answer. Has ANYONE ever gone through a nasty custody battle and still wound up reconciling with each other later ????
It was just suggested to me that this may have been something of a plan since mid April. And I have to admit it does fit in several ways.
I KNOW from a review of phone records that she was talking to him in mid April at really weird times , 2AM , 4AM etc. Then there was an instance on the twins birthday where he was spending a day with each of the girls individually, one on Friday , one on Saturday. That was our weekend to have them, but we weren't going to interfere if he was trying to be a Dad again.
Well that Saturday, we were supposed to go over to the neighboring State to look at houses for our move. She was running late getting back from going somewhere with my Step mother. I called her cell a bunch of times with no response ( which in itself isn't that unusual since coverage has been known to be spotty in the more rural area's) I finally got a hold of her and she said she was on the way back.
You can imagine my surprise when I looked out in the driveway and there HE is and their talking pleasantly. Of course I got annoyed and when she came in I asked " What the hell is he doing here !??" She explained it as it was easier for him to follow her to pick up twin #2 for their day together then it was to explain to him how to get to our house, which made sense she's NEVER been very good at directions, I mean REALLY bad.
Then of course things went to hell within a couple weeks of that.
That's not to say she didn't have legitimate complaints with me, she definitely DID. But the picture is starting to become clearer, since I found out during our talk the other day that after losing custody of the twins, legally letting them be adopted and up until three months ago despising her MIL , she announced that she may now be getting full custody of their two kids BACK this fall. Which is something she's ALWAYS wanted to have.
So here's the hypothetical scenario that makes the most sense.
We're struggling, having financial problems, her feeling I'm not giving her enough emotional support , not spending enough time with the kids, not killing myself looking for a decent job in the worst economy in 70 years.
They have a random encounter or conversation about the twins. He smells her vulnerability and unhappiness from a mile away. He starts whispering in her ear about how he's got a place free and clear, they can have a "united front"(she actually used those words once in a conversation regarding why all of a sudden he wanted to be Dad of the year material after 14 years of not giving a damn) against his mother to get the twins, he still loves her, he gives her the emotional support she needs in a moment of deep vulnerability and weakness, just leave me for him and all her troubles will be solved and she'll have the twins back AND he doesn't care about the fact that we have two of our own, he'll accept them like I did theirs when they first split. She wont have to worry about work or bills or anything.
She seizes on the opportunity for relief ( in her mind ) from our very stressful reality, but keeps it from me. I make a ridiculously stupid comment here or there that gives her the PERFECT excuse to jump ship without feeling any guilt. She then starts rewriting our history to blame me for EVERYTHING that's gone wrong over the last several years, while not admitting much if any culpability of her own.
In her fog, all of her "issue's" are solved in one fell swoop, without even thinking about the damage to OUR kids.
The good conversation on Friday and the "slip" she made may have actually been genuine ( I do believe they are on some level ) but a much greater probability is that she is thinking she's being nice by trying to let me down easy. Or simply doesn't have the courage to own up to whats been going on, feeling that admitting such a thing either makes her an ugly person or something that I simply could NEVER forgive and she wants me as docile as possible in the hopes I cave on custody.
God I would kill to get copies of the texts she was sending to him with ever increasing frequency over the last 6 weeks, just to confirm my suspicions about what certainly seems to be a very probable situation. It does all make sense that's for sure.
The dilemma of course being, I SOOOOOOO want to let her know that I've figured the whole thing out and she's going to get the fight of her life over our kids, but that would be the exact opposite of what DR says to do. I KNOW if she does wind up with custody of her girls , that's IT for us, because she will NEVER leave them again, for any reconciliation between us. Although they will be 18 in three years. The only way I could see her coming back after getting the girls is either after their eighteen and on their own OR if I was somehow able to swing a house big enough for all of us together. But even that scenario is unlikely, since if my theory is correct, there's gotta be some "clause " formally or informally about them having the kids only if their together.
In a way Im glad I figured out a probable and plausible explanation of whats happened. But Im also PISSED that she doesnt seem to care about what her decisions are doing to OUR kids. And the fact that she doesnt have the courage to just tell me straight up. I doubt she would admit it, under oath, hooked up to a polygraph , with an injection of truth serum. She wouldnt admit it because it would eat at her, so she has to concoct a different version of events or justifications to be ok in her mind with what she's done.
Im gonna run my theory by our counselor neighbor and see what she thinks. She was babysitting my son last night, and I did mention to her my question about why the WAW would have reassured me that OUR kids will never call him Daddy , unless its already a long term thing in her mind. Needless to say I dont think Tuesdays meeting is going to be very pretty
