And before anyone says it , I know it sounds like Im "rationalizing " but thats really not the case.
You are wrong. Rationalizing is exactly what you are doing.
You aren't fooling some of us, but it looks like you have yourself fooled. Rationalizing will do that to you. That is why they call it rationalizing. The person doing the rationalizing actually believes what they are telling themselves and finds any and all reasons to keep on doing what they want to do to keep from facing reality.
How interesting that it is YOU who is telling the her that you need to show her that you trust her....
I mean this same type of thing happened three years ago. I mean why should any man not trust a woman who lied about moving back in with her ex husband? Why would any man not trust a woman who wants to take her ex husband to a concert with a man who ask her to go as a friend. No reason for you to even worry anyways since you are only trying to be friends huh?
Yea, she is different all right... Keep on rationalizing... I bet she has told him that you and her were only friends all these years. After all, she could say to him that she would have gotten married if she really loved you huh? Think he would believe that? Love the one you are with.
But as odd as it may seem, and Im NOT even saying I believe it myself fully , but there IS the possibility that it really IS a platonic thing. She's ALWAYS had more guy friends then girls. And I mean that sincerely, I know its outside the "norm" but there is something to it. She never liked the catty gossipy types of reltionships popular amongst many female/female relationships , even ones that are friendly.
SOTR ~ even Lesbians don't have more guy friends than girls. Lift your head out of the sand, my friend. All the women I have ever known who have more guy friends than girls are ... FLIRTS (at least).
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I've already made peace in my mind with the idea that they MAY already have, or MAY at some point in the future " do it" but again , I cant do squat about it. I learned from DR that the affair is NOT the problem but a symptom. I can live with that. We have almost 14 years of history together, they have ONE bad one.
But how on God's green earth are you making PEACE with it??
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Like I said, it sounded and felt sincere when she blurted out that she doesn't have everything she wants, cause she doesn't have ME. This was confirmed as sounding very genuine by our neighbor counselor.
And the Oscar goes to.... Plenty of people have SAID things that make others FEEL a certain way.
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I know what Im saying sounds foolish, I really do
And yet you persist.
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. But this is not a "normal" person , that does or thinks things in the more common and predictable ways of this type of situation.
She's unique ~~~ just like everyone else.
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I have to go with the observations of a trained third party
Who is saying EXACTLY what you want to believe, even though, as you YOURSELF admit, is so hard to reconcile. Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Maybe men really do get Playboy to read only the articles...
It is possible.
^^^^LOL
SOTR, listen to robx, gucci and greek. They are giving you good advice. I'm just about 8 months into my sitch and turned a blind eye to things up until recently. I am now at the point I am going to bust my a$$ to find out for sure if there is OM or not because I want to save my M. If you want to save your M please don't be naive. Listen to the advice given to you too. These people want to help you save your M.
Good luck!
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
But as odd as it may seem, and Im NOT even saying I believe it myself fully , but there IS the possibility that it really IS a platonic thing. She's ALWAYS had more guy friends then girls. And I mean that sincerely, I know its outside the "norm" but there is something to it. She never liked the catty gossipy types of reltionships popular amongst many female/female relationships , even ones that are friendly.
SOTR ~ even Lesbians don't have more guy friends than girls. Lift your head out of the sand, my friend. All the women I have ever known who have more guy friends than girls are ... FLIRTS (at least).
Quote:
I've already made peace in my mind with the idea that they MAY already have, or MAY at some point in the future " do it" but again , I cant do squat about it. I learned from DR that the affair is NOT the problem but a symptom. I can live with that. We have almost 14 years of history together, they have ONE bad one.
But how on God's green earth are you making PEACE with it??
Quote:
Like I said, it sounded and felt sincere when she blurted out that she doesn't have everything she wants, cause she doesn't have ME. This was confirmed as sounding very genuine by our neighbor counselor.
And the Oscar goes to.... Plenty of people have SAID things that make others FEEL a certain way.
Quote:
I know what Im saying sounds foolish, I really do
And yet you persist.
Quote:
. But this is not a "normal" person , that does or thinks things in the more common and predictable ways of this type of situation.
She's unique ~~~ just like everyone else.
Quote:
I have to go with the observations of a trained third party
Who is saying EXACTLY what you want to believe, even though, as you YOURSELF admit, is so hard to reconcile. Greek
Sorry Greek , but I have lived with the relationship for 14 years. I don't know what else to say. There are plenty of guys that she's had friendships with that were NEVER ANYTHING more then strictly that, NOT EA's , NOT PA's . JUST FRIENDS. I'm not asking anyone to believe it. But I LIVED IT and KNOW that's the reality.
Im making peace with it because of what I read in DR. Because I understand that any affair is a symptom, NOT a cause, and there's NOTHING I can do about it right now. I know of another couple that survived TWO affairs and twenty seven years later have one of the strongest marriages around. It DOES happen.
YES it is possible that she is a sociopath and this is all an act. What I don't understand is the discounting of a trained counselor, with a degree in psychology and her opinion of what she observed today AND what the WAW has related to her separately.
Of course she's unique. What your not grasping is that due to her childhood , and several other factors , she doesn't process, handle or deal with things in the way more normally " well adjusted " WAS do or behave. There is also still an as of yet unexplored component of post par tum depression or other chemical imbalance.
Of course its hard to reconcile. Mixed signals always are. Trying to separate and interpret everything is confusing.
I know and appreciate that most of you guys and gals are trying to help, by not letting myself be treated like a doormat or something , just like many of my real life friends are with their well meaning advice. And for that Im extremely grateful. And I DO consider everyones counsel and advice. But the fact is that there are things I KNOW, that are simply to complex and would take a multi page thread to explain.
What I DO KNOW is that, I dont give a damn ( well I do in a way of course) if their being intimate or not. I can get past that if in the end we are able to reconcile.
What I DO KNOW is IF they are, theres NOTHING I can do about it.
What I DO KNOW is if I constantly bring it up or talk about it, it sends a signal to her that I dont trust her. And not only is that the foundation and starting point of ANY relationship, it will drive her further away.
In the end, maybe I will get burned. But that's a risk I'm willing to take while working on trying to repair things. If nothing else, I will be able to look my self in the mirror and my children in the eyes and know I did EVERYTHING humanely possible to repair things.
I mean no disrespect, but it seems like some people are just so cynical that everything Im relating is scoffed at as me deluding myself. As if ALL women act in totally predictable ways in ALL situations, when the fact is Im looking at things with both eyes wide open and trying to read the proverbial tea leaves for clues. And as of today the clues are at worst conflicting and at best are signs that things really arent over for us. A LONG road back ? Sure thats obvious. But hardly terminal, at least not now. Could that change at almost anytime ? Of course it could. But as long as the clues are there that there's still a chance, then Im still going to fight for it.
But aren't you still the OM? I mean she's still M. You keep referring to him as her ex, and that she's your WAW. But she's still M to him. She is not your WAW. She's a WAMarried woman.
Don't you think that should be settled first? If she was seriously thinking about you I would think that she would get divorced first.
That sounds like the key to it all. I mean why won't she just D her H already?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
That's a question I plan on asking for sure. Your treating it as if it was a traditional marriage. It WASN'T. They were 16 years old and it was an ultimatum of sorts because she was pregnant. She left him less then 6 months after the marriage! And I dont mean left him for me, I mean left him and moved back in to her mom's house. Now how many marriages that start like that and then result in a 14 year separation, with virtually ZERO communication between them, her feelings about what he did to her plus her feelings towards him of being an absentee father for 12 years result in rekindling anything ??
Well, MAYBE her ex HAS changed. It IS possible. Maybe the fight with his sister changed him and he is no longer abusive. It IS possible.
Maybe men really do get Playboy to read only the articles...
It is possible.
I brought up the fight with the sister yesterday. The fact is I have run multiple background checks and cant find a record of an arrest for domestic violence in his name or DOB from last year. The only thing I have to go on is his daughters hysterical phone call to me. I don't doubt that he was arrested , but if it was something for traffic tickets or something like that then there wouldn't be a record of that in our State and it wouldn't have anything to do with domestic violence. If there were no physical signs of injury or a fight, and the other party declines to press charges, then the officers have discretion. Now, that doesn't change the fact that there was SOME kind of argument or altercation that took place and that is something I plan on addressing. The only thing I can try to get is see if there's an incident report or something from the responding department and what it might say.
Maybe men really do get Playboy to read only the articles...
It is possible.
^^^^LOL
SOTR, listen to robx, gucci and greek. They are giving you good advice. I'm just about 8 months into my sitch and turned a blind eye to things up until recently. I am now at the point I am going to bust my a$$ to find out for sure if there is OM or not because I want to save my M. If you want to save your M please don't be naive. Listen to the advice given to you too. These people want to help you save your M.
Good luck!
That's the thing. I AM looking at this with eyes wide open. I've already acknowledged more then once that there COULD be something physical going on, but I also know there's NOTHING I can do about it other then fighting to keep custody of the kids. Which is full of potential blow back. He isn't in any relationship that I know of , so there's nothing for me to bust. I'm NOT being naive', I'm trying to navigate the situation the best I can in a way that most likely ensures an eventual reconciliation.
