No longer "stuck808". Now my name is Bond. "MrBond

[MHL]

MrB,
It sounds like you have been "pushing" your W and she seems to be responding in that you are seeing more of your old wive emerging. At some point in the recent past did she agree to work on the M? Is she open to your feedback to her? I am trying to remember your thread but if I am not mistaken did she not come back once and then you asked her to leave again.

See before, my W would apologize for anything, even if I accidentally bumped her in the hall. Now there's nothing. As odd as it sounds, I actually have to tell her when she's doing something inappropriate as she says she doesn't realize she's doing it. So after I tell her, she now thanks me for it and actually remembers to do it now.

I know you have been at this a long time and it sounds like you have come a long way, but IMO this sounds like you are trying to control her.

Just wondering how she is "feeling" when you tell her she is doing something inappropriate. As much as I can, before I say anything to my W, I say to myself, "How is she going to feel after I say this?"

How long will she put up with that or how long before she says to herself "I don't want to go back to that".

There is a reason she is still not living back at home right? or does she want to come back and you have told her "no"?

[Greek]

Oh and for the forgiveness part, it was something my C said to try. I think it helped me telling her that I forgave her.

The only key to the forgiveness vault that you get is your own. And yes, it certainly does feel very good to forgive someone. Liberty!

I think the main person she can't forgive is herself.

Repeat...the only key to the forgiveness vault that you get is your own. You cannot possibly know - even begin to know - what anyone else regrets, craves release from, forgives truly. You just cannot. Leave that part of her alone. It's not yours. It's hers.

If she can do that, then she'll be able to feel a sense of remorse. Times like that I wish she'd get some C, but I can't control that.

Perhaps. But this is not not not your call, area, business, responsibility.

Greek

[MrBond]

missherlove,

Thanks for the post. In our sitch, I didn't tell her to leave. She just did. The reason? She didn't feel like being married anymore. What does that mean? I've asked her and she just shrugs and says she doesn't want to be married anymore. WTH?

I did ask her for MC but she just says the same thing about not being married. No reason for it.

After every intervention with her, I ask her for her feelings or how she feels about this or that. I get the same response, she shrugs and says something neutral like "it's okay" "fine", etc. Usually very short one word answers. It's only been recently that she's actually putting together sentences.

She's never said she wanted to come home. In fact, about a month ago I asked her to come home and she retorted "you want me to bite the bullet and come back" as if she was sacrificing something. I asked her what she thought she would be sacrificing and what it is that's the problem because I still have no clue. She then mentioned how she wished she had our Ds all the time and I told her that it was her choice to live this way and that I always invite her to join us for things, but sometimes she turns it down. Again. Her choice.

She had no answer. It's hard to interact with someone who is so closed off.

She's still in a phase where she doesn't think of the consequences of her actions and is quick to blame rather than seeing herself as the issue. When it starts being directed at me, I'm now quick to reflect it back to her and say that these are HER choices and the consequences are a result of HER choices.

I'm just choosing not to be the scapegoat.

[MrBond]

Greek,

Thank you so much for your response. I do understand that all of these are her choices and I have no control over them. I had just gotten to the point where I wanted to see more from her and get frustrated from time to time.

That's why everyone is here to keep me on track!

For someone who claimed that she wanted to go out and get a life, live independently, etc. She hasn't done any of that. In fact, when she has the kids, she just takes them to the mall. Not really playing with them.

I had a question about your sitch though. When you were out doing your thing, did you ever think about what you had done to Coach and your family? At what point did you actually show remorse for what had happened?

I know it may not apply to my sitch, but I'm just curious.

[Coach]

She didn't feel like being married anymore.

I don't remember this from your sitch. She's cake-eating on you. She has no attraction to you, she can barely have a conversation with you, she doesn't want to come home, she doesn't want to go to MC, she's closed off, she's depressed/MLC, she only wants to see her girls - cake-eating.

She's leading your family. She sees no hope for a better future because the sitch is the same for her. Not saying you aren't different, improved and aware. The lack of attraction is the same for her.

Is what you are doing working? Is it what you want? Baby steps haven't been cutting it for you and your girls. Only one way out of limbo. How would 007 handle this?

Cheers

[timehealsall]

missherlove,


I'm just choosing not to be the scapegoat.

^^^^^^^^ Very good! xo

[Greek]

I had a question about your sitch though. When you were out doing your thing, did you ever think about what you had done to Coach and your family? At what point did you actually show remorse for what had happened?

I know it may not apply to my sitch, but I'm just curious.

Yes, I did think about it. I thought of our children - what our D would mean to them. And, yes I did think of what Coach was going through. I was taking care of myself, though, and believed it was essential to get away from the situation as it was then.

Coach and I talk about this from time to time - are we sorry we separated? More precisely: do I wish I hadn't left? The thing is, had I not shaken things up, we're not sure anything would have changed for us. So it's hard to say "I'm sorry I left you" when both of us agree it made a big difference to our relationship and marriage. However, let me be clear - I hate that he suffered. I hate that our children felt insecurities and uncertainties about our family. I expressed this part of my regret to him and our children sometime after I moved back home. They have forgiven me.

Greek

[MrBond]

Coach,

Thanks for that. 007 would cut his losses and move on.

Believe me I had thought about that many a time. I do know that much of her depression came up after our second D was born. She had the same thing after our first, but not to this extent. I've mentioned it to her before but she didn't want to get it checked out.

I talked to her physician and my C about her and they said that if it is depression, she will not find anything attractive. In fact, the OM was like a shot of adrenaline that made her "feel" something that wasn't negative. I think sandi explained to me what happened with her and it's similar. It's like she's just numb.

According to them, she could be married to George Clooney and she wouldn't feel "attracted" to him.

So do I see things improving in our sitch? Most definitely. After I re-read my post it did sound like a downer, but I can honestly say that things are 100% better than they were even 3 months ago. She had started to do more things for me and is interacting more with me.

Do I think she's cake-eating? No. Even when she's with our D's alone, they have told me that "mom is sad" all the time. Her skin's been breaking out, her sleep patterns are erratic and she doesn't eat like she used to. She also just doesn't smile like she used to from what I hear from others. She doesn't go out or have any close friends. So I know it's not me.

In fact, lately, I've been getting more positive interactions with her. After 2 years of all negatives, the positives have been sticking out like crazy. And I do see that they are building and increasing as time goes by.

I don't know if her hormones are finally stabilizing or whatever, but all I know is that I've seen glimpses of the woman I married coming out of the fog. I haven't really taken any "baby steps" she has. So I decided I'd stick it out for a little while longer and see what happens.

[MrBond]

Well we had lunch with my W yesterday and she asked me when Father's Day was. I told her it was in a couple of weeks and she said she had made reservations awhile ago at one of our family's favorite restaurants so she wanted to be sure it was free.

Today I'm debating whether or not to call her to go out. Part of me thinks it would be good to continue the positive times and another part wants to pull back a little.

We'll see.

[Coach]

talked to her physician and my C about her and they said that if it is depression, she will not find anything attractive. In fact, the OM was like a shot of adrenaline that made her "feel" something that wasn't negative. I think sandi explained to me what happened with her and it's similar. It's like she's just numb.

So which is it? Women hate boredom. Get her to pursue you, get her out of numb, make her feelings towards you positive. What can you do to help her change her feelings? Be sensous - involve all the senses. Shake things up.