Can it be...a MLC??

[Stilltrying68]

"Yes they are actions! So the question is how do they fit in to the journey. Are they necessary actions?
I know detachment is a necessity. Without learning this action you will be unable to move forward."

From Old Pilot on the LBS page.

I guess this is where I will be stuck until I break through some of what I think for me is mostly fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of the realities of where I need to change. Fear of the effects of all this on the fam, and mojor abandonment issues.

In the end I know none of it is rational, because I cannot change it. I am falling back into these attempts at bargaining (at least it has moved a bit past pleading) because of a fear of things I cannot change anyway. SO...

The detaching struggle continues.

I am so glad of this place and the people here. Even if as I type I know I am talking to myself and working things through via my trusty keyboard, it is good to not feel so alone in the endeavor.

@TGrit--> I think part of the problem is that I do not know what I want, or that I am basing what I want on what I think "will work" to get back something that is gone.

Today I am really going to try and dig deep and find what it is I want post Dead M. This may hurt my W and cause more friction, but I do not think I will ever be able to move on if I do not take some kind of stand, set some kind of boundaries, and list some of MY wants.

She told me she feels selfish. IMO she damn well should. Throw my butt in the basement to keep up the bills and keep me out of the way and on the pay no mind list? She can play the cellar troll if she likes, but why on earth should the house in which I have SO much sweat equity and she not much other than trips to pick out new doo-dads become my prison? Then looking at me all doe-eyed and saying, "Well you will help out, won't you?" when I point out that even with the money coming in from me, she will never make the mortgage and the bills. So what do I want?

I want my house to remain a base for my kids to cling to during the mess that is to come. This will not be possible under her current fairy tale like scenario. I want my kids an unaffected by this as possible. The toughest one though is that I want the kids to know that I did everything in my power to get their Mom to go to some kind of counselling and get some kind of help, but it was just too late. THAT I do not think I can do, because of the boundaries that need to be set between this event between the two of us adults and the kids.

I also know that it is unfair to concentrate on the consequences of so many previous actions that both the W and I were part of...anyway I am obviously babbling now **exhale**

Back to some reading.

Thanks for you input everyone.
ST

[Grace_O]

Still,

Detaching takes time and comes in stages. The fear you will conquer.

I set goals and break them down into workable pieces. At first it was as simple as I will read one chapter in a book (having nothing to do with R's etc) that requires my focus (I chose things like quantum physics, string theory etc). At times it was all I could do to read a page. I made sure I was doing some kind of physical activity (not work) again, you can keep it simple.

As far as what you want. Don't discuss it with her. Write it out. Then revise it until you understand what it is you want. If you don't want to help her with some request, you can say no nicely. Do you get out to do things? If you don't, start.

As far as the kids knowing you did everything in your power..you're right that you don't get to tell them that. They will come to know (and at their ages already do) more than you think. I am surprised and at times embarrassed at what my kids understand about everything.

If you can do something to work of some of the nervous energy from all this, you may be able to quiet your mind (if only for a minute or two) enough that you can think. My caution here, just because you think it with what you think is a clear mind doesn't mean it gets discussed with her. Put your own plan in action and measure yourself by your own yardstick.

HUGS

[Truegritter]

I will be stuck until I break through some of what I think for me is mostly fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of the realities of where I need to change.

Yes.

You will be stuck until you move through this.

BUT you must go through it to experience it and know it and to break through the fear.

This may hurt my W and cause more friction, but I do not think I will ever be able to move on if I do not take some kind of stand, set some kind of boundaries, and list some of MY wants.

This is not the time for YOUR demands.

THAT, if I may venture, is probably part of the problem.

The STAND you take if you choose is for your M.

Boundaries are not to enforce WANTS they are to protect you.

They should have no other purpose. If they do then they are attempts to control.

ST what we are talking about here is you have to let go completely before you gain any ground here. And the ground you gain is not at the expense of W.

She doesn't have to GIVE it...

That is what detachment does for you. You begin to see a new path you want to walk that has nothing to do with the old piece of ground.

I did everything in my power to get their Mom to go to some kind of counselling and get some kind of help, but it was just too late.

THIS is the BIG one.

Are you ready?...

ALL your power...even if you are superman...all YOUR power

cannot get W to do ANYTHING.

NOTHING.

NADA.

NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

You will hear this many times until it sinks in believe me.

What power you do have is greater than the power over another.

It is in YOU.

How about doing everything in your power to save your M.

The only one you can control is YOU

How about wielding THAT power. What will you show your kids from that?

I started out where you are ST. You can read the early stages of my thread and you will recognize some of the same thoughts you are having.

I am here because you are here and since you are...

I will give back the advice given me that allowed me to move through this.

YOU can do this.

[ericmsant2]

Still

Okay so now that I understand that your W has not filed, here is what I want to tell you. STOP. Yep...one word...STOP...

So what do I mean by this...
- STOP thinking about your M
- STOP thinking about what your W may be thinking
- STOP thinking about what she thinks or feels about something you do or dont do.
- STOP worrying about a D
- STOP trying to figure out if she is a MLC or WAS.

Just STOP.

Why? Cause buddy you need to rest and compose yourself. You need to spend some time in YOUR head NOT your wife's. That's right - YOUR head. You need to as you said...

I am really going to try and dig deep and find what it is I want post Dead M

Your sitch seems a little like mine. Your probably sh*ting bricks right now. Your probably analyzing every move she makes, every look that she gives you. Guess what? You can Analyze until you are blue in the face and some of it still will make not make sense. The time you spend focusing on her is time AWAY from your kids and the time you should be spending focusing on YOU.

for me is mostly fear

Ahh....yes the ugly moster of FEAR. I hate the F'er too. You see this fear that YOU have, will paralyze you if you do not face it. AND I mean really face it... It will keep you feeling defeated my friend. So guess what (sorry I'm gonna sugar coat this) - Man the F up and face it. Call it what it is - FEAR - Look it right in the eye and commit to facing it. Then realize that fear is only an emotion...one that WILL pass if YOU allow it! Notice the key if words...if YOU ALLOW IT. Do you realize that you control this sh*t?

because I cannot change it.

Good that you can say this...very good. Think about control and what it really means.

I am falling back into these attempts at bargaining

Not good! Now...reapeat after me...." I cannot change or control another - only myself". Say it one more time..okay...again...

I am so glad of this place and the people here

We like you too.

The toughest one though is that I want the kids to know that I did everything in my power to get their Mom to go to some kind of counselling and get some kind of help,.

They will understand this one day and you will not have to say a word. Actions my freind speak louder than words.IMO - keep the kids out of this.

but it was just too late

Oh...so your quiting already?

As you are trying to figure out what you want...make sure that you do not react or decide on something when you are angry, hurt, and fearful.

Take your time stil. Breath...

God Bless,
Eric

[Stilltrying68]

I want to save my R.

My M is dead.

I have to focus on only those things I (capital I) can do to meet this goal of saving R and forming new and improved M.

The fact that my wife wants a D, but wants to go through this without friction is problematic.

I have been playing along and allowing her to go down this road. Getting info from lawyer and sharing it with her, showing her our debt sitch, showing her how we could work on debt sitch.

All these are things I thought I was doing right because she wants a D and I cannot stop her. BUT should I then force her to file and simply stand my ground saying I want this to work?

I am getting confused about some things. Isn't dragging my feet controlling the sitch, or trying to?

Should I just live as if she is not there, but with respect when she wants something?

Current status in house is this.
I am taking care of 99% of domestic chores.
We are still in the same bed, but I have started sleeping in other room via some excuse for the kids when I can.

She has given me the ILUBIANILWU rebuttal to my failed bargaining. (I know bad move, but I was in a major backslide at the time)

I have started to go out a bit(GAL)and to be in another room when she is home.

She wants to bomb kids in about three weeks.

I am juggling forums, Old Pilot links, and trying to finish Mich's DBing to get a handle on everything.

I am not quitting.

I am worried that I am caught up in trying tactics and in doing detaching and they seem to work against one another, but I do not know if W is WAW or MLC or, as I am sure can happen, a bit of both.

There WERE signs. She did communicate issues like feeling she was not and should be priority number one. She also stated she felt like crap and the bad guy in the parenting sitch.
Then for months it was upstairs with the Blackberry right after work. My first intro to DBing was an article on another sight by Mich on the WAW. I actually SHOWED this to my W.

At the same time she turned 40 (Nov last year), went to Vegas, has tried new careers, gone off to old sorority events (she did not even join til Jr. year), and been pretty independent.

I am trying to do the right things for me, my R, and my kids, but it is dang hard right now to know just what those are.

[Stilltrying68]

Heading over to the Standing vs Leaving debate to see what is said there for a bit.

[ericmsant2]

Still

Your sitch sounds sooooo much like mine. Debt, trying to speak to W about doing this nicely, etc. Once again, stop worrying about db'ing, or MLC vs. WAS for now. I know...I know it is hard but right now you need to step back and just breath...

You post show the same signs that I displayed. FEAR...YOU WANT THIS TO GO AWAY NOW. Dude - please listen to me...STOP trying so hard to fix something that cannot be fixed overnight.

Now is the time for you to really think about YOU. That's right YOU. That is not to say you are selfish....no it is to say that you must realized and ACCEPT that W has said it is over. So waht does it is over mean to you?

What I have learned is that it means that YOU know have TIME. TIME to figure shome serious Sh*t out.

but wants to go through this without friction is problematic.

Now here is what you need to do....listen to her. She wants to do this without friction... listen to her. As hard as it may be right now...believe her. Think about what she may be going thru...while you are listening....you should be still.

Getting info from lawyer and sharing it with her, showing her our debt sitch, showing her how we could work on debt sitch.

Sorry to say this dude...I think you are trying to scare her into staying. (FTR - I tried this) It will not work. If she is done, she is done. So stop trying to control and manipulate her. Right now, she is focused on her. How about you do the same.

I cannot stop her

Yes you cannot stop her. This much is true..you can though push her. You may be pushing her with your fear. It is probably written on your face. So if you deal with the fear you will put yourself in a better position.

should I then force her to file and simply stand my ground saying I want this to work?

You should keep your mouth SHUT. Stop sharing info, stop trying to talk your way out. Stop and listen. Be still for a bit. Let the dust settle.

I am getting confused about some things. Isn't dragging my feet controlling the sitch, or trying to?

If you are dragging your feet because you do not want a D then no it is not controlling because you are doing it for YOU. If you are doing it becasue you are affraid and you are trying to manipulate her into staying - then yes it is controling.

Still - you need to realize that you want her to stay because she wants to not because of debt, not because of the kids but because she wants to. Guess what - she needs to figure that out.

Still she knows you...she can see what you are doing. Stop - focus on YOU. Focus on what you really want. Do what you want to do but don't be an ass.

God Belss,
Eric

[Mach1]

Still,

On occasion, I post this for someone else to read...

There are things in this from here, and a few other sites that I put together for myself in the beginning of this.....

Now there are two kinds of divorce that happen, sort of at the same time. One is the legal divorce, and the other one is the emotional divorce.

We get the two confused.

We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels.

The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.

Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.

But I say that it's the working that makes it not work.

When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.

When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.

When you argue, you're working at improving them.

When you try to reason with them.

When you tell them how much you love them.

Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.

Proof? You want proof?

Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.

Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.

It's perfectly okay.

And watch them improve themselves.

Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.

You have put the white flag up.

You've thrown your gun down.

That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.

It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.

Agree with them.

Do not disagree at all.

It's not to your advantage.
....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.

Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."

Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."

I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."

"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."

"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"

"Yeah, I want her back."

"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."

And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."



Read this for YOU

[Mach1]

What most of that is to me is..

This time is for you man....

Take the focus off of her and what she wants and is doing ...


Use this time for you.

Look, the monsters in your own head are just that. You imagine that she is doing something, and realistically, she may or may not be doing those things....

How does that help you ???

It doesn't

For now....read the resources, and try to stop spinning ...

That is step one...

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Hey Still,

If you're going to waste time wishing for silly shite can you wish me a million zillion dollars too? : ) kaythnx.

You're getting some pretty damn AWESOME advice here from some guys who are either a little ahead of you or FAR ahead of you on similar paths. Listen to them, heed their warnings.

When they STRONGLY suggest you NOT to touch the stove, it isn't because they just feel like saying NO...it is because they are looking to prevent you from getting burned...however....(But hahahahah) too many of us here only learn those lessons after we have the blisters.

Sandi,

Thank you for the reminder to explain the platitudes. Seriously appreciate that.