Working on a NEW marriage

[Surviving03]

You guys are always right.... this became very apparent last night. Things are still good with H and I, however, it became very obvious that we cant just pretend none of this ever happened and just be all happy.

Last night I was playing a game on H Ipod, he was sitting right next to me... I dont think it occured to him that I could see some of his old emails on his ipod from the last time he had gone online with the thing... so although these emails are not actually in his hotmail anymore, they still show up on the ipod in an offline status from the last time he used the internet on there (does that make sense?) so the emails are old, from the mid March time frame, however, they are emails I had not seen before between him and OW, I sat there and read thru some of them with him right next to me and he was completely oblivious to it. Anyways... got a little better picture of what the relationship was... basically it was one-sided... H seemed to really like her a little more than friends, and for her, it was just friends. He used little terms of endearment when addressing her in the emails, she never reciprocated that. His emails were always pretty flirty and obvious that he liked her... her emails were pretty innocent.... but its so hurtful to see your own H crush on another person and say little flirty things to someone else.

One email he said to her stuff like he feels his destiny is all coming together, and if he gets Nellis (where she lives) on his list of bases to choose from then it will just prove that point even more (nellis was in fact on his list after all, but H ended up putting GA as where he wanted to go for me)

I also saw an email where she had just gotten home herself from Iraq (this was during the time I had kicked H out of the house and he was staying in a hotel) and she was saying that her bf was being really sweet to her and he was alot different than she thought he was going to be when she got home (she had told H that she was going to be breaking up with bf when she got home) and H basically told her thats great, she deserves to be happy but that "everything I said to you and all the talks we had I meant, and just know that my friendship is unconditional" Soooo... anyways, I saw I think one more email between them since that one, and then it just kinda fizzled. So needless to say I started having overwhelming feelings of my H just stayed with me cause he couldnt be with this girl, which im sure happens in a lot of situations, they come back after things with OP doesnt work out... thats tough to recover from. In my situation, he didnt come back until a few weeks after that thing fizzled out, but still.

Now as far as a transparency plan..... this is has been sooooo tough for me because one of my H original complaints in our M, and one reason that he had for wanting a D (before OW came into the picture) was that I dont trust him. I would constantly bring up past situations and relate them to anything and everything he wanted to do in the future. A night out with his buddies was an absolute no go with me. We both had eachother passwords to everything, he never checked my stuff... I always checked his stuff. When H was being perfectly trust worthy, I didnt give him that benefit of the doubt. So when we first reconciled, I decided I wasnt going to ask for passwords again, I was going to show him I trusted him... but last night it hit me like a ton of bricks... I DONT TRUST HIM NOW! He betrayed me, everything I was always afraid of him doing, happened! So I struggle to find a balance with needing him to do things to prove his trust, and me also working on trusting him when he does deserve it. We talked last night about all this, for 4 hours! thats not a joke! lol and we went back and forth with basically what comes first... trusting, or trustworthiness. And I argued of course, trustworthiness comes first. I basically told him that while I do 100% get that before I was not trusting and it drove a wedge between us, now he actually has done something to betray me, in a BIG way. I couldnt, even if I wanted to, just hand out trust to him. It doesnt work like that. I said I hate to even have to say this but I need your passwords, I need you to be open and honest and no secrets and when the time comes where I feel that I can trust you, I can stop checking up on your stuff. And he said ok, so I will give it to you, and when that time comes I will then change my password so that you can show me that you do trust me....well I didnt go for that. I feel uncomfortable with that... I dont want to feel like we have an open honest marriage, for a certain time frame.... am I wrong here??

How do i find that balance??

[Surviving03]

oh my goodness... I cannot believe what just happened, in a good way! My H got to work about an hour ago and was talkin to me on IM and asked me what was wrong this morning, I told him I just dont feel good and Im still upset about last night.... he said honey I know I have not been doing a very good job showing you that I am in this but I am in this 100%. Next thing I know, he forwards me an email that he had sent to my parents this morning, apologizing to them for hurting their daughter and hurting them and explaining how this all panned out for him and saying that he hopes we can all be on good terms again and that he wishes they would talk to me even if they are disappointed that I stayed (i havent heard from my parents since I told them we were staying together)and assuring them that he is in this 100%.

So that was amazing....

[steady]

Good Surviving. I love the fact you brought up the transparency thing.

I didn't have a transparent marriage. I had passwords and my own computer. My W and I had a joint and separate checking accounts. This lead to some problems with me spending money she didn't know about and her feeling like I was hiding something because of our separate passwords.

If I could do it all over again this is what I'd do:

- No hidden passwords. We would both have the passwords to everything, whether they were joint or individual use

- One account. Both of our money goes in and out. Period.

- Joint credit cards. Nothing gets spent without the other one knowing about it.

- Full access to each others emails, facebook, phones, etc...


I know some people will say that what I wrote is not healthy because it would allow someone who is insecure to keep their insecurity - and they would be right. Just look at your own situation and what happened even though it was transparent.

I'll add a caveat to what I wrote above - this is what would have worked for me during my M. I hid stuff for a number of reasons - my W was very critical so she would find a way to show what I was buying was somehow wrong, I was under the belief I was doing something 'wrong' so it needed to be hidden, we both had trust issues baggage so the separate stuff only fueled those trust issues, etc. Being transparent would have forced both of us to face our issues about trust and self worth and change them in order to have a healthy relationship.

I've changed so most of this doesn't apply to me today. I am secure in who I am and what I have to offer someone. I am authentic and transparent (each day working on being more of both) so I have nothing to hide and would rather everyone know the real me and not some mask I'm wearing.

this is has been sooooo tough for me because one of my H original complaints in our M, and one reason that he had for wanting a D (before OW came into the picture) was that I dont trust him. I would constantly bring up past situations and relate them to anything and everything he wanted to do in the future. A night out with his buddies was an absolute no go with me. We both had each others passwords to everything, he never checked my stuff... I always checked his stuff. When H was being perfectly trust worthy, I didnt give him that benefit of the doubt....

the quote above led to:

everything I was always afraid of him doing, happened!

We end up having the things we are afraid of happen because of our actions due to that fear.

When you think someone is going to 'cheat' on you then we snoop, we accuse, we stalk, we accuse, etc... We end smothering the other person and pushing them further away from us. The further away they move, the more we don't trust, the more we snoop and smother. We end up pushing them to do the thing we fear the most.

Where does your insecurity arise from? You need to find this out and fix it. All the transparency in the world is not going to get you to trust him. You have proven this based on the fact you guys had transparency and you still didn't trust him.

- Are you not worthy to be loved?
- Do you feel if he really knew you he would leave you?
- Do you think he is the only person you could ever be with and if he left you would somehow not survive?
- Are you not happy with yourself as a person and a fully functioning individual?
- Do you understand a relationship is a bad place to have to 'get' something?

When you understand you don't need anything because you already have everything you need as an individual, then all your choices arise from a wanting rather than a needing. When this happens you are with someone because you want to be with them rather a need to be with them. They are two completely different worlds in a relationship.

It's a codependency issue. Google it and see if it rings a bell for you. I suffer the same thing and as you read around these boards I'll venture to guess a significant amount of people who are here have the same basic issues.

The tighter you squeeze someone to hold onto them, the faster you will lose them. I've been there and done that many times over my lifetime. When it happens enough to us we end up keeping a new significant other at arms length so as not to get hurt when they finally leave us. This also leads to the same fear being experienced again.

Think of it like this. If I pour water into your cupped hand, and you close your fingers, the water will be forced out of your hands. If you continue to cup the water, it stays. Love can be cupped but never squeezed.

I'll bet good money you don't have a healthy self image. All your trust issues have nothing to do with him, and everything to do with your perspective about yourself. They are your demons to find and to crush.

[Surviving03]

I love this Steady... you always force me to really take a good look at myself and you have alot of great insight.

This is soooo true for me. I know for 100% fact that I did smother H with my insecurities and accusations and it most definitly had the most to do with why he wanted a D. In fact, he told me before that his breaking point in all this, where he went from having negative thoughts about the M to feeling like he def wants a D, was when he told me on the phone while he was in Iraq about a female coworker (turned out to be best friend of OW) confiding in him that she had been sexually assaulted out there, and when he told me this, I immediately started questioning why she would tell him of all people, what made her feel they had a closeness like that??!! had they been really good friends and I was totally unaware??! why would someone feel that comfortable to tell him that??!! And this was 2 days after H came to me the very first time and told me he was having some doubts about us... and then here I go accusing him of having a friend more or less.

I dont know exactly what causes me to do this... I am confident, I do know that H is not the only person I could be with, I know I am worthy of love. If I had to guess, I would say it might be this: I am an attractive person and I have always gotten alot of attention from men, all the way back since grade school. What I find, however, is most attention from guys makes me feel uncomfortable and slightly annoyed. So my point is, I know people are attracted to me. BUT when I am in a relationship I do feel alot of insecurities about myself, I fear that my significant other will find someone else more attractive than me, I fear that they dont actually find me that attractive. I fear that they settled with me in some regard, Im not actually their "type" (this is really true for my H, he has always dated brunettes who are athletic and sporty, I am blonde and more of a cheerleader type) and of COURSE OW fit the description of H usual type. But anyways... I put SO much of myself into my relationships, and I am terrified that I wont get the same in return. I was cheated on NUMEROUS times in a past significant relationship, and H and I had a some minor trust issues while we were dating... so its all just kinda a big mess of insecurity.

I can say this though, when I was going thru my stages of detaching when I thought there was no sign of a reconcilliation, I was feeling VERY confident and I had got to a point where I knew I didnt need a man to confirm for me that I am loveable or worthy or attractive or anything... I knew all these things and I felt real good about myself... and I am losing that now that we are reconcilled. I dont know why.... last night and today so much of my old habits were resurfacing... it made me feel terrible, and I sent H an ecard apologizing. Conversation came up again about some of the emails I read on his ipod between him and OW. And my old self came out... and last night he came home later than I thought was ok from his buddies house, and I ripped him a new one...... he takes this all very well, I see the frustration in his face but he is biting his tongue and maintaining a very understanding position, and I love him for it.... but I find it is SO hard to understand how to balance working on my trust issues, and ACTUALLY being able to trust him after the hurt he caused....

[steady]

It's easy to be detached and confident when you have nothing to lose. The trick is, can you do it when you have something you want and don't want to 'lose' it?

[steady]

Also,

Relationships bring out our intimacy issues. Friendships and acquaintances don't. So a person may feel confident and worthy but then feel different when in an intimate relationship. That's where the dysfunction will show itself.

It's good you are noticing when you are being the 'old' you and ratting yourself out, but the question is, how are you going to get rid of it?

Awareness isn't enough. It's the first step. Dig down deeper...that's where you'll find it.

I'll challenge you are not as self confident and self assured as you think you are.

Study this:

BUT when I am in a relationship I do feel alot of insecurities about myself, I fear that my significant other will find someone else more attractive than me, I fear that they dont actually find me that attractive. I fear that they settled with me in some regard...

Any divorce in your family? Alcoholism? Are your parents close and intimate with each other? Do they have what you would consider an open, honest and close connection?

I think if we go down the rabbit hole we'll find it somewhere..because it does exist.

[Surviving03]

no divorce in my family, at least none that I was ever exposed to. I have some divorce in extended family, but i grew up a military brat and was never around my family much. My parents have been marrid for 30 years and are close with each other and have a great relationship. So I am not sure where I get this from. It could have something to do with being a military child and then straight into a military wife and there are ALOT of divorces and marriage problems in the military that i see and hear about all the time, all my life.

Well right now I am sitting in a terminal waiting to board a plane with my H to go visit my step daughter. I am so grateful to be going on this trip WITH him, and not sitting here about to separate from him. I keep staring at him imagining how hard that would have been. I am SO grateful that has turned out to not be the case. I wont be on here much for the next 3 weeks while we are gone, but will return soon to update.

[steady]

Just wanted to let you know I'm still around and checking for any updates from you.

[Surviving03]

Ok, so we are home from our trip now. Trip was AWESOME! It was so good spending time with my step daughter and with my husband. It turned out to be a much needed trip and we definitly reconnected, it was just awesome.

I just could not be more happy to have my life back with my husband and feel that sense of security coming back.

We are doing so much better... I am starting to feel like this crisis might have been a blessing in disguise so that we can both learn to appreciate eachother and actually be aware of our actions and words towards eachother.

I still have my guard up somewhat, and always have it in the back of my mind that this could happen again, or this nagging fear that what I think is reconnected bliss will turn into me hearing "this isnt working for me" or something like that.... but on the surface, he is doing a fantastic job making me feel loved again.

How is everyone else doing? I havent looked over the board yet but will do so