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1. Your wife is still in wayward mode... You haven't beat that yet, you have just driven the affair away... further away...
2. Your wife thinks you are a liar partly because SHE is a liar. When people lie they get paranoid and start thinking everyone lies to them too.. its a psychological response
3. Don't expect your wife to tell you the truth fully yet
4. Don't talk about her feelings for OM, it just brings them BACK TO HER AGAIN... STOP ROMANTICIZING her affair talking about her "feelings for him" and how he "broke her heart".. you sound like HER... stop that
5. Give your wife your phone then if she doenst trust you.. you know how to build trust.
6. Your wife is brainwashing you into thinking SHE is trustworthy and that YOU making a CALL is BAD.. its NOT.. you are just following up and its acceptable right now... I would tell her to get used to it for the next six months and it will get more gradual over time... your WIFE has this self-righteous attitude that SHE is INNOCENT and YOu have no business checking up on her... She's Full of it.

I would maintain that

"I know you two weren't "just talking" and i know you two weren't "just friends"... everyone knows it.. ok?"

"I am going to call OMW sometimes to keep everything in the OPEN.. when people engage in TALK that is DESTRUCTIVE to their MARRIAGE BEHIND their spouses BACK it IS FAIR to CONFRONT THAT ACTIVITY.. and I WILL do that... If I go BEHIND YOUR BACK to do HARM to our MARRIAGE you can call me on that too... I would appreciate it, it will help me fly straighter and be fair to you... but this is RECIPROCAL... I will call OMW to check in on her marriage to make sure its getting better.. Its' the ADULT thing to do... YOU talking to her Husband BEHIND HER BACK was doing DAMAGE...damage I am trying to repair... ok?"

and walk away

And walk away

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Quote:
4. Don't talk about her feelings for OM, it just brings them BACK TO HER AGAIN... STOP ROMANTICIZING her affair talking about her "feelings for him" and how he "broke her heart".. you sound like HER... stop that


I will stop it. I said it in a sarcastic tone and implicating I know she is lying.

[quote[\]"I am going to call OMW sometimes to keep everything in the OPEN.. when people engage in TALK that is DESTRUCTIVE to their MARRIAGE BEHIND their spouses BACK it IS FAIR to CONFRONT THAT ACTIVITY.. and I WILL do that... If I go BEHIND YOUR BACK to do HARM to our MARRIAGE you can call me on that too... I would appreciate it, it will help me fly straighter and be fair to you... but this is RECIPROCAL... I will call OMW to check in on her marriage to make sure its getting better.. Its' the ADULT thing to do... YOU talking to her Husband BEHIND HER BACK was doing DAMAGE...damage I am trying to repair... ok?"[/quote]

OMW and OM said over the phone that all communication must and will stop. OMW and I are protecting ourselves as well as our marriages at the same time my W and OM are not aware of this talk going on. Their rational is/would be "If they can do it so can we." OM doe snot OMW talking to me period, he want to put this all in behind them. For him it is that easy, as they work on their marriage my W is still hooked and we live in misery.

Just so I am clear, I was not using my cellphone but rather my neighbors home phone that I accidentally left on the counter, so giving my W my cell phone will not do anything for her because she now assumes I am calling them form another phone anyway.


M: 27, W: 25
Together since: 01/31/00
M: 10/4/09 (8 Months)
ILBNILWY: 01/24/10
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How is your neighbour's relationship with your wife?

What you can do maybe is

1. You DO need to find a way to express the difference between the calls that YOU and OMW make and the calls that SHE and OM make so she can absorb that. She may realize there is a difference, but wording it simple and precise helps a lot.
2. Maybe you can have your neighbour make an agreement with her that you won't be calling OMW from neighbours phone. If the three of you are there she can trust you. Your neighbour just has to make a verbal confirmation to her that he will not allow YOU to use the phone for that call. But YOU do need to make it clear you WILL be calling.

Many spouses OIN want to SWEEP an affair under the rug, they HATE the follow up, the spying, the fact-checking, etc.. They want it all to just dissappear...

Re-read "Other Reassurances" in MWD Divorce Remedy book on pp 211-212.

The fact-checking MUST and WILL continue to PROTECT marriages. I would find a way to word that. Pupster may have a suggestion. But your wife needs to learn that what she and OM were doing cannot be swept away and will be checked up on by you and OMW... Do NOT do it in secret... I would confront her on it and explain WHY it is being done and reassure her it will decrrease over time and will eventually not be done at all... But I would make it crystal clear that she knows it WILL be DONE right NOW... I would NOT try to check up with OMW in secret.. I would make sure she knows you two are following up to protect each other's marraiges...

OM and your wife made a BAD choice and they are going to have to live with that for six months or so...

Just find a way to word it kindly but clearly that this will continue and its NOT a secret. If she doesn't want you using neighbour's phone then use your own phone... Don't hide it.

Read that piece in the book, it may help you find a way to word it or someone here may have suggestions.

You dont want to put it mean and shove it down her throat, you just want her to understand why YOUR calls are ok and hers were NOT... and why YOUR calls will continue for the next while.

I would print out that reassurances piece in DR and send to OMW so she has a good explanation of why this is being done... MWD puts it well in the book I think.

OM needs to get over himself and live with his wife checking up on him for a while too... These two are both a couple of self-righteous children.

It is very common for people who cheat and come back to NOT want it to be discussed, they just want to put it behind them and will LIE to do it... THey will tell you songs they are listening to are for you, etc.. its all BS

These two need to learn they crossed a line and that LINE will be CAREFULLY GUARDED for a while until you and OMW feel safe again.. I would NOT guard it in secret and tip toe around those two on this one...






Last edited by Allen A; 05/27/10 08:14 PM.
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It is times like these when you can say, "Look, we can't solve this thing ourselves. We need help. Will you go to marriage counseling or Retrouvaille with me and see if we can learn to get along with each other?

And if she says, "No! I'm moving out!" Then tell her to do it already. Because living in limbo is not working. You plan to have a happy marriage with someone. If she is not interested, then she needs to move on, now.

Last edited by Lotus; 05/27/10 08:36 PM.
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Maybe just put it like :

There's a difference between a phone call to protect or save a marriage, and a phone call to destroy a marriage

You and OM calling one another does damage to your marriage, ours is protecting a marriage.


Yup, I know your wife will likely say :

"Well your calls are destroying our marriage now"

That's GOOD... she's LEARNING.. That would be GREAT if she could come up with that one.

Why?

1. It shows she understands boundaries in marriage MUST be respected for the marriage to thrive
2. It implicitly suggests she WANTS to protect YOUR marriage... what do you think of that? smile

I don't know if she would reply that way, but it wouldn't be a bad thing if she did ... I would then reply with this :


Yes, you are right, marital boundaries need to be respected by both of us here for this to work... Right NOW the calls will continue. I had to tolerate them for months on end... My calls are protecting a marriage, even if they make you and OM uncomfortable... I DO get that they upset you. They WILL become less often over time and in a few months they will end completely... I DO understand they make you uncomfortable, and I don't like having to call either.. Do you think I ENJOY having to call another man's wife to find out that my wife is pursuing her husband? I don't. I can make these calls in front of you if that would make you feel better, but I am going to protect OMW marriage if I can. She needs reassurance from us that I don't konw if any calls and that you aren't calling her Husband.. it makes HER feel SAFE... SHE didn't deserve any of this... She is entitled to as much comfort as we are isn't she?

It will stop soon enough, but not yet... OMW and I are trying to protect two marriages here OK? Please try to understand that. It will end, I don't like having to call either. And no one else knows I am calling... Just you and those two.

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Does the OMW call you? It seems like you've been doing most of the calling. The OM wants to leave it all behind him because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And now of course he wants to "save his marriage". Male cheaters especially are funny that way. My W's boss kicked her to the curb when I found out about them.


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No omw does not call me unless something important comes up and in that case my W will be on the other end with me listening.

I did not want me W to know that we had this contact because she would feel it justified her talking to om and also would thing it is me being controlling. I worded this for her so many times in the past about "protecting our marriage" and "its not the same" and the responses I get "there is no marriage" and "we are just friends" noone or anything can convince her otherwisesn she believes what she believes and that is it.

So I made the decision do to what I had to do to protect our marriage without my W knowing. I slipped up today bit to be honest I am tired of it.

Maybe I should just lay it out there like lotus suggest.

To us it is an affair but to her it was jist a friendship and she is set on thinking that. The only way I can ever prove to her we know its more than that is buy putting the facts out there but I am not willing to expose my intel gathering.


M: 27, W: 25
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M: 10/4/09 (8 Months)
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NEVER REVEAL THE SOURCE(S) OF YOUR INTEL.

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That's right. Just let it go and detach. You're driving yourself crazy trying to figure out what she thinks. Concentrate on yourself.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: OfficerInNeed

Maybe I should just lay it out there like lotus suggest.

To us it is an affair but to her it was just a friendship and she is set on thinking that. The only way I can ever prove to her we know its more than that is buy putting the facts out there but I am not willing to expose my intel gathering.


OIN MWD says this in her book, but I will put it more explicitly here for you :

What your wife SAYS to YOU, is NOT the SAME as what SHE is THINKING to HERSELF or saying to OM

You seem to think that your wife actually BELIEVES she wasn't having an affair and wasn't cheating... Sorry, but I don't buy that for a second. I am positive your wife knew what she was doing and she KNOWS its not "just friends"

YOU can't get her to ADMIT that TO YOU, but she IS thinking it and KNOWS IT.

You don't NEED to CONVINCE her, you just need her to KNOW that YOU KNOW... which you ARE DOING...

Don't think for a second that her protesting that she and OM are just friends has anything to do with what she knows or believes.. It doens't.. its a WALL she's putting up to protect her reputation and to save face...

your wife does NOT want to ACNKNOWLEDGE right NOW that she WAS cheating... It has NOTHING to DO with what she BELIEVES... Your wife knows' she was cheating... She's no fool and she knows you aren't.. But right now, she is determined to save face and keep that wall up...

THe PROBLEM is that you THINK she BELIEVES that crap.. she does NOT believe she was just friends... She has convinced you she's deluded and believes her lies... she does NOT.

THe ONLY LIE she believes to be true right now is that OM and her had a potential future. That I think she is childish and deluded enough to believe.

You do NOT need to PROVE to her it was an affair. You just need to TELL her

We BOTH KNOW it was MORE than that. I am not going to argue, but I am no fool and neither is the rest of your workplace. Everyone knows what was happening. It's sad that it happened in the first place. People got hurt and trust got damaged in both our home and in OMW's home. I am no fool. I am man enough to ignore it, but I am also intelligent enough to know what was happening. I do NOT want to argue about it at all right now... Just KNOW that I KNOW...

And walk away...

That gives your wife some face while you maintain your own dignity.

The problem is

a. She won't admit the truth
b. You refuse to be indignified with obvious lies

So just tell her


I know. Leave it for now, I do NOT need to prove it to you and you don't need to argue either.. We BOTH KNOW... Lets just leave it ALONE for now... I, unlike your workplace refuse to make it an issue. I am calling OMW to protect marriages and that's IT. I know what you two were up to and you know you two weren't just socializing either... Lets not dig a grave for ourselves digging evidence out of each other. That will just make us miserable... I know, you know, lets move on and just let it Go... in a few months this will be gone and we can forget about the whole painful thing. I got hurt, YOU got hurt... OMW got hurt... It's sad, but it happens. Let's not fight about it ok?


You see what I am doing here is giving HER some face, and you so no one has to feel humiliated. OIN, right now your wife feels humliated. This is part of why she won't admit the affair. You trying to prove she was cheating is just going to bring up her defenses. Let it GO.

You CAN let it GO and let her have her dignity AND you have yours. You just tell her you KNOW, it happens, move on... She realizes you aren't trying to villify her and then feels safer, and YOU don't feel like she thinks you are a fool.

It allows both of you to walk away with some dignity with minimal damage.

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