Mish: “So are you saying that having fear and finding ways past those fears is not acceptable? I shouldn't tell him how I am feeling when he asks but suck it up like I always have and allow it to consume me?”
Absolutely NOT. I *hate* it when you trot out your “poor me I’m not entitled to share my feelings” line. I’m pretty sure you got that, lol.
My point was about how I guess he was feeling. Like I said, he’s entitled to his feelings too. Trying to understand how he might feel is a good thing. Empathy and compassion are necessary for empathy. If he feels like, just like before I imagine, pretty much nothing he can do or say will do anything but hurt you because you’ll twist it into something negative about yourself for your own low self-esteem reasons, he’ll probably be very scared, freaking out, and likely missed a lot of what else you said.
My belief is that he is attracted to you now because you are happier, more self-empowered, more in charge of your own happiness, less likely to blame him for your self-loathing, etc…
If so, then when you talked to him, and showed him the same old pattern of him doing something loving, then you distorting what was going on with your own ASSumptions, turning him against you in your own mind, he probably was pretty well freaked out.
Let me ask you this, does this sound like an inaccurate scenario from your M?:
Gabe: Nice haircut.
Mish: (in her head) Yuck, this haircut looks like crap. I look hideous. If he thinks I look better now, I must have been really gruesome before. He’s either being sarcastic or he’s hoping that I’ll be less of a slob and improve my grooming habits blah blah blah….
Of course, I could be totally wrong about what he was feeling. You could always ask him: “Gabe, were you afraid that no matter what you do, I’ll experience it in some way that hurts me or lowers my self-esteem? If so, I can see why you might feel that way. But, rest assured that I’m a big girl now. I get it that I’m responsible for my own happiness. Indeed, that’s precisely why I shared how I was feeling with you – it hurts me to stay silent (so I didn’t) and I wanted to quit trying to mindread and get a clear view of things so that I can make my own empowered choices. It isn’t fair to either of us if I let you walk all over me in my own head, when you are being a perfectly decent and loving guy. We both lose. So, I wasn’t going to let that happen.”
But, if I am at all right about such patterns in your old M, then it is critical that you don’t sink yourself by staying stuck in or revisiting the old patterns too much. Of course it is a process, change is always a process. It is just especially important that you stay on top of feeling good about YOU.
Mish: “I didn't blame him for my feelings. I didn't tell him he WAS doing what the dark side of my mind thought he was doing. I was very specific with him that this was about my own insecurities. He can choose to understand that or play the victim himself.”
Well, yes and no. When you blurted things out, I imagine you had quite a lot of blame and accusation in your voice, no matter what words you chose. I’m sure as time went on and you relaxed, you got clearer about your message – that you were expressing your fears. (BTW, this would have been a good time to ask for what you want: “Gabe, I have these crazy fears sometimes. Can you help me out with some direct reassurance that we are holding hands on this path we’re taking?”
Anyway, you blurted, he freaked. So, he may well literally not have heard a lot of your clarifications and reframing. It might be helpful to restate them now that you’ve both gotten to the other side of such a milestone in a pretty good way.
“No, there is no way to completely forget what has happened in the past, nor should I. That doesn't mean I'm holding any of it over his head. His past actions do not dictate the future and I don't consider him to be a bad guy, only a bad decision maker.”
Of course both of you should remain aware of the fact that he is at-risk for using an affair to feel better. When the time is right, you can even talk about strategies for avoiding a repeat. In the meantime, it is entirely appropriate to ask for reassurance that he isn’t involved with other women, to ask for transparency as you rebuild trust, and so on. Put it on the table, find solutions. Don’t hold your fears in and eggshell walk.
“ I don't perceive him treating me like sh*t. “
Yeah, you do sometimes. Read your thread. You’ll get to a place in your own head where he’s just using you blah blah blah as a defense mechanism. When you write those things as if they’re facts, its because you do sometimes perceive him to be treating you poorly.
“I actually see him treating me better than he ever did. Honestly, that scares me too. Is it for real? I like to think it is, but I have learned not to trust blindly anymore. Trust is earned and built over time and that has not happened yet but we are working on it. “
He’s trying, you’re trying. That’s all either of you knows right now. Can’t see past the present, as non-omniscient humans.
“Being responsible for my own happiness also requires me to speak up when something hurts me. It requires that I be deliberate in my speech and actions and not expect Gabe to 'just know'. “
YES! And, it will help if you can do it in a less emotional-boil-over-blurt context :-)
“Reconciliation is a LONG way off. If it comes to that, wonderful! If not, then I will have learned a lot more about myself and how to go forward in confidence that I will be ok.”
YES! No matter what, if you keep doing what you need to do to feel good about yourself and work toward and R that would work for you, then you will absolutely work through old crap, ditch old patterns, and come out way ahead of the game, no matter how things work out.
She beat me to it. But I'll write my piece, anyway
This:
Quote:
So are you saying that having fear and finding ways past those fears is not acceptable? I shouldn't tell him how I am feeling when he asks but suck it up like I always have and allow it to consume me?
I didn't blame him for my feelings. I didn't tell him he WAS doing what the dark side of my mind thought he was doing. I was very specific with him that this was about my own insecurities. He can choose to understand that or play the victim himself.
No, there is no way to completely forget what has happened in the past, nor should I. That doesn't mean I'm holding any of it over his head. His past actions do not dictate the future and I don't consider him to be a bad guy, only a bad decision maker. I don't perceive him treating me like sh*t. I actually see him treating me better than he ever did. Honestly, that scares me too. Is it for real? I like to think it is, but I have learned not to trust blindly anymore. Trust is earned and built over time and that has not happened yet but we are working on it.
Being responsible for my own happiness also requires me to speak up when something hurts me. It requires that I be deliberate in my speech and actions and not expect Gabe to 'just know'.
Reconciliation is a LONG way off. If it comes to that, wonderful! If not, then I will have learned a lot more about myself and how to go forward in confidence that I will be ok.
is some of the most self-assured writing you have ever done. It is very good to see.
My point is that he may already be carrying a boat-load of guilt over his choices, feeling like a generally bad person and man (lost wife and career in short order)..... of course you are correct that it is much better to get things out in the open, but it may take him longer / he needs a different set of understanding, as he has a different path than you do, to make the relationship work for both of you.
OT - you are so insightful and have so many great suggestions and thoughts. Want to come be a live in life coach? I could use one. LOL
Friends, I do feel like I've started to turn a corner personally. It's so good to wake up in the morning and not feel like a complete failure dreading the day in front of me. It's nice to know that I'm capable of creating my own happiness and that I'm worth the trouble.
I have a long way to go, but I'm sure I'm going to get there!
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Hey Mish.. I have been reading and sorry to reiterate OT etc, but I have to say.. I dont entirely agree that you were right to lay your feelings out and he can chose what to do with it...because you werent telling him how you felt, you were accusing him of using you. You said he was making you feel like you were just a booty call. If you look at that, its kind of insulting, knee-jerky and undermines the feelings he genuinely was developing for you (as he said). It wasnt a reflection of what was going on between you, or his intentions, it was a reflection of how you view yourself. Now after what he did, you'd be entitled to throw hurtful words at him!.. but thats not good DBing right and you presumably want to hang onto this new, more caring, loving Gabe?
But hey, no 2x4 necessary as you did give him space and apologised to each other after, so good progress hey!
You do have a tendency to the negative which makes me confused. I wasnt picking up AT ALL from your earlier posts that he saw you as just a booty call. You even said yourself he had been very caring and helping around the house and 'snuggling' in bed. So I felt you should have reframed that negative thought in your mind, instead of blurting it out.
I also am not getting AT ALL that reconciliation is "a long way off" as you just said.. ?? You are living together and ML! You are in reconciling mode right now! Its just fragile is all.
C'mon Mish, you got your H back, thats AMAZING, A-M-A-Z-I-N-G! Dont you think? Ok hard work ahead, but can we have a glass half full around here please !?
I'm soooo hapy for you, I could do a little jig like a medieval jester xxx
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Agree w/Ali. I am a hopeless optimist, I know, and always was a hopeless romantic before my own situation! So I always hope for couples to be reunited even if the "WAS" does not necessarily 'deserve' the second (or third) chance!
Things sound like they are going along well now, so just try to enjoy that. I am sure it is hard not to wonder if/when the other shoe will drop having experienced it once before, but hopefully you can try and have fun with what is before you and not worry about what is next!