Game Point

[pigskin]

Try to stay cool as best you can, sounds like you are doing OK despite your W's best efforts at setting you off.

I'm a bit of the same way with my sitch, W hasn't thrown OM in my face but has done enough, such as posting him on her FB page, even prefacing it with an email to me saying "I know you will be bothered..."

What she and OM do is water off a duck's back with me now. I just get irritated when she is with our kids and does stuff with the OM.

[tryingtilDorR]

Had a bit of a blow up this weekend. I started pressing W about when she is going to move out and what her plan is. We got into a bit of an argument about how it is unfair for her to 'float' between houses as she sees fit to do whatever over there and go back and forth, etc. I said a couple of choice things that I shouldn't. I asked her if she was taking Xanax (she denied) and S18 overheard.

I sometimes 'fall off' the detachment wagon and thoughts about her and OM get to me at times and that is what drove the conversation (I don't like seeing her around thinking that she is hooking up with OM over at the other place as she sees fit).

She said she is going to start staying there on weekends and having the kids there every other weekend with her until school is out.

She talked to S11 and S12 and they had a lot of questions. I was there for part of it. I corrected her when she said "WE think this is the best thing to do". I told them that "I didn't want our family to have to split up" - not in an argumentative way but she flipped.

We had to step out of the room but I told her to use the word "I" and not "WE" when discussing the motivation about separating. I thought we were clear on this point, but she keeps trying to pull me into the decision based upon something I said about the 'game being over because I have tried everything' and tried to use that to say that I am agreeing to all this and that it is mutual.

On the one hand she is adamant with me about how SHE HAS DECIDED TO MOVE OUT but then when the audience changes to our kids it is WE. She hasn't fooled the teenagers and they seem pretty irritated with her right now. My only words to them were that I was hoping their mother would make a different choice and that we have been having lots of problems and needed to work on things.

This is probably one of the most challenging situations - she is only halfway moved out so I have to see her around the house. I need to get back to my 'don't care' attitude, which I think was working well for me until I got into this conversation with her.

[TeleDad]

TD,
It is so refreshing to see that when you are talking to the kids they understand that this is not a WE decision. I will soon be in your position. Going to D Mediator on Wed. for initial meeting. This is the last thing I am interested in doing and when the sh*t hits (when the kids find out what is going on) I want to be confident in letting them know that this is NOT a joint decision. W wants me to use WE in conversations with the kids.

About this weekend, we are only human. Sometimes we say things that we wish we hadn't. Oh well, its out there. Nothing to do but carry on as best we can and continue to DB.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[tryingtilDorR]

See if you can get her to agree with you at least before she talks to them. My W and I never really clearly agreed I am now realizing - she just avoided the subject but didn't neccessarily disagree.

The emotions may take over no matter what you to agree on up front.

I just mentioned today that she and I should have probably talked about it jointly with a counselor prior to sitting down with the kids. I don't think she would have been interested in that.

[tryingtilDorR]

It's been a while since I posted so time for an update. W has slowly been moving out. She is pretty set up over at her new place. She has borrowed some furniture, moved some of ours over, and otherwise is set up with her utilities, etc. Some friends have helped her move.

I am being cooperative in the sense that I am not standing in her way or otherwise putting up any kind of fight. My L had told me to "finesse" her out of the house so that is what I am doing. Good friend of ours has been helping her move and get set up over there - they apologized to me for it but I told them they were helping me out by loaning her furniture, helping her move so she doesn't have to hire movers, etc and that there were no hard feelings (heck I sure wasn't going to help her move).

She stays there one or two nights a week so far, but she will be staying there full time in a few weeks once kids are out of school (or so she says - that is the next big thing I am looking for). I am hoping she is serious about being out full time because this half-in half-out arrangement has the potential for LOTS of problems. I particularly don't like seeing her in my house knowing she can go to her own any time to hook up with OM or whomever.

Other than that, I have met two women and one of them is VERY interested in me. It is kind of interesting, but I initially reached out to her just to get to know her a little and she was very strict, saying that we couldn't have ANY kind of friendship because I was still married, and that she was divorced from an unfaithful husband, etc etc. After I explained my situation a little better she decided to pursue things a little further and now I am a little worried.

First off, if I eventually D and want to re-marry this OW would be a great candidate based upon what I have learned about her. She is about 5 years younger than me but has no children. She never remarried after she divorced for a few reasons but is looking for someone to commit herself to now, but is not neccessarily looking to have her own children. She is very intelligent, interesting, easy to talk to, very giving/loving, would be a great person to have in my children's lives and everyone would really like her.

I am experiencing what W and OM experienced during their EA. The chemical reactions, euphoria, etc. It's all there. However, it also makes me realize how incredibly selfish she was acting - I KNOW that what I am feeling talking to this person is a temporary thing and not permanent but obviously could be with her if I invested in the R for the long haul, but still no substitute for the committed relationship/M I had with the mother of my children, no matter what problems we might have been having at the time or how much distance had been created.

Love is something you DO, not something you FEEL. Right now I FEEL it but what I had tried to convince WAW of over the past 18 months is that we needed to DO love in a long term relationship to make it last.

I have had these kinds of discussions with this OW and she totally gets it and has told me she is falling in love with me, so I am a little worried since I am not exactly 'available' but see no harm in making new friends like her but I might have given too much of myself in all these conversations.

Treading lightly, finessing WAW out of the house so she can be with OM and I don't have to see her, and trying to figure out how to handle what I am feeling for this OW right now. I could let it go immediately - mind over matter - which is something WAW was too confused/hurt/in too much pain to do with her OM in order to save her M and family.

Amazing to look at this from the other side and realize that it is STILL a choice - nobody HAS to do this even if they have the feelings I am experiencing for this OW.

[pigskin]

I have had these kinds of discussions with this OW and she totally gets it and has told me she is falling in love with me, so I am a little worried since I am not exactly 'available' but see no harm in making new friends like her but I might have given too much of myself in all these conversations.

I could let it go immediately - mind over matter - which is something WAW was too confused/hurt/in too much pain to do with her OM in order to save her M and family.

Just make sure you are pretty much done with your W if you hang out with this new woman. After all, most people in affairs would probably say they never intended for it to get as serious as it did. It is already serious in that the woman has TOLD you she's falling in love with you. This is a BIG deal - remember women are much different than men in these areas. The fact that she said that to you probably has you thinking about her more and more.

Thinking you could cut it off at a moment's notice might be presumptuous if you aren't careful. Knowing that she loves you puts a hook into you that could prevent you from cutting it off - after all, you wouldn't want to hurt her, right? Boom - now you are in your own affair.

[tryingtilDorR]

Yes, I totally agree. Her telling me this made me feel somewhat committed to her. I don't want to hurt her. In the same breath she has told me that 'it is crazy' to feel like she does about me after such a short time so she is questioning the whole thing herself.

It is interesting to discuss this whole area with someone when you are involved in it. She and I can talk about all of the feelings we are experiencing openly - she is very intelligent and it is interesting to reflect on all this with her since we are both navigating through some interesting emotions. She likes to almost play coach/counselor to me in many ways - her parents were both psychotherapists it turns out. As a result, we are both very able to talk about what we feel openly and it is kind of shocking the things we have shared in such a short time - deeper discussions than I have ever been able to have with my W.

I have seen it 'from the other side' and can first-hand understand what W was clinging to, but I don't feel like I need to cling to this and could let it go.

Her expressing her feelings for me is an unexpected twist. At first I thought we were just going to be really good friends and she was someone who could relate to what I have gone through, but she is on the hunt for a partner, is available, and it is a dangerous combination I realize.

However, I am learning some other things that might be helpful to newcomers which is why I wanted to talk about this here. I am finding that there are a LOT of wonderful people out there. I had been told this, but until you meet some you are always skeptical.

There was a time that I thought the only person I could ever be happy with was my W, even though she was dragging me over a bed of daggers with her behavior, disrespecting me immensely, nasty attitude, and everything else that was going on. I was devastated. Now I am realizing that there is a lot out there - women are very attracted to a man who remained committed to his M even when his WAW was having an affair and tried to do whatever he could to save his M.

I have told her how hard I worked to save my marriage and family, how I went through a year of counseling to deal with the situation, researched/read everything I could, and eventually arrived at the other side emotionally to the point where I was interested in meeting new friends once she finally left me (moved out of the house - she 'left' 18 months ago when she started her A).

Newcomers take note - you don't have to do what I am doing to learn this, but just know that there are wonderful people out there that may allow you to understand what you have been missing in a committed R. I would still take my WAW back immediately to see if we could make it work, and you should do the same (after all this site is 'divorce busting' right?). It doesn't mean you should give up on your M when it seems there is no hope, but maybe this will give you a little more patience and peace to know that you will survive, and possibly thrive, if you have to face moving on because WAS won't return. There may be things out there that you might not have imagined.

[tryingtilDorR]

I decided to visit my IC this week after not talking to her for about 4 months. One question I had for her was 'am I ready to meet new people or should I be waiting longer?'

Her advice knowing what has gone on over the past 2 years was that I am ready and that I needed to take it slow, and obviously not involve my kids with new friends or partners during this difficult time of adjustment for them.

She said that I am 'over' my W it sounds like, particularly because of the way I described the grieving process I went through over the past 18 months, with small steps along the way.

I told my W tonight that she really needs to finish moving out, that her being half-in and half-out is not a good situation.

My IC told me that I will need to be very aggressive and set boundaries in this area very soon, because based upon what she knows my W will cake-eat as much as possible by staying around the house when it is convenient for her, but that it is actually more confusing for our kids that way.

[pigskin]

Your W's slow pace in moving out says a lot about her mental state. I really think that what you are doing will go a long way toward hitting her in the face with reality.

Keep up the good work, I think there is hope for your situation, and it certainly seems like you are in a good mental state to do what needs to be done.

[tryingtilDorR]

Yes pigskin she seems really conflicted. I think it is a sign of her depression - she suffers from it and has never been treated or refuses to be. It runs in her family. She has been incredibly indecisive about the situation the whole time - comfortable to stay in limbo.

Finally a couple of good friends of hers are pushing her move out because to everyone else on the outside looking it it seems like a crazy situation, where there are all kinds of potential issues that can occur due to her behavior.

I pressed her hard on Sunday, and the past 2 nights she has been staying at 'her' place but coming back in the morning to get kids off to school and back in the evenings until they go to bed.

This will have to end soon. She says she will be completely out when kids finish school in a couple of weeks, so we will see. If she doesn't leave completely at that point I will need to get more aggressive.

On the OW front - My new 'friend' I met recently has been incredibly helpful as well - she is very patient and intelligent and has gone through something similar with her ex-husband and has given me some good advice on how to deal with W. She is telling me to not reveal as much to her about what I want as far as my negotiating goes with the D settlement. The caution for me is that she wants to get serious but realizes I am in no position to do that with everything going on in my life but wants to wait it out while my situation 'resolves'. I have enjoyed talking to her and spending some time with her. She doesn't have her own kids and is very 'available'.