I really do suck at the validating, I get so caught up in defend me mode I forget all about it. I know I got some info in the conversation, I just don't know what to do with it or how to proceed at this point. But, I guess sending him an email and listing all the ways that I think he has been a bad husband in the last year won't get me anywhere?
I'm still so irked with how he answered the phone, it is exactly how he answered the cell phone when the mysterious caller called. I need to get over that, I know, but I'm also tempted to bring that out in the open.
I am resisting all impulses to send an email or pick up the phone at this time.
Need to remember that basic DBing principal that if what you are going to do or say will not get you closer to your goal (getting your R back on track) then don't do it. If it will get you closer to your goal then go ahead and do it.
This one thing has kept me from doing and saying a lot of things to C these last few months and I believe has helped my sitch a lot. Once she is more committed to rebuilding our R then there will be time to work on my issues, until then anything in that area will just drive her away. This principal I believe is true for anyone trying to DB and bring their relationship back on track.
I get so caught up in defend me mode
I never defended myself at all - anything she said I acknowledged as true I only stated that while I did (whatever) I did not do it with the intention of hurting her. I then went to something positive in the conversation. This seem to take the wind out of her sails and did prevent several arguments.
Good luck in your sitch. and I also see lots of positives.
I would vote for not bringing that out in the open. As tough as it is try not too. Ogda is right to run it through the filter of "will it get you closer to or farther away from your goals?"
There are so many positives here: 1. You had a date. 2. Your date went well. 3. You and H 4. Your H is talking to you about the R. 5. In the R talks, he is discussing his part in all this. 6. He has mentioned Retrovaille. 7. H aksed what do your books say we do next.
This is all so good.
Maybe some of these other isssues could be discussed safely in the context of Retrovaille when you go. With some guidance and time for just the two of you.
Please try not to think/worry about the phone call. He is moving towards you right now - even considering the conversation about your sister/his parents, things seem to be moving in the right direction. Thoughts of who might it be, etc. can tear you apart (I speak from experience here). Please try to let this go and not think about it. When thoughts come to mind, remind yourself the your H is making steps back into his R with you. Keep up the good work - the 180's, the thongs (you and Ellie are right here - they are not comfortable, but you can get used to them ), have more dates, plan your trip to London, look forward to Retrovaille, have fun with him, take care of you.
Validatating is hard, and I think you are good at it. Just keep reminding yourself each time you're around H to validate, validate, validate. I have to constantly remind myself about this in every conversation my H and I have.
You are doing great! Don't beat yourself up. Stay steady and keep focused. Maybe make a list of reminders to tuck in your pocket? (Lumpy's idea, which seems to help me.)
Sage is right to look at your H's comments as things that you can work on. This can be helpful, although at the time it can hurt very much to hear it.
Overall I still think things are going very well for you and H.
Hang in there (((((Jackie)))) You can do it!!!!!
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
As I read your posts, I see your H sayiing a lot and ssking for what he wants.
He waa hurt that you were not cooking dinner for him. I know it sounds unreasonable considering he doesn't live with you anymore - but he was hurt. Seems like he wants to be part of your life - just doesn't know how to get there yet...
I can relate to the work issues. As our M deteriorated, my work pressures were escalating at the same time. At one point, I had to go work on Christmas eve and could barely afford to take Christmas day off. It really isn't always a choice to work 80 hours, clients, the economy, etc. drive the work hours sometimes. If you cut back, your coworkers end up carrying the extra - so anyway it can be a tough dynamics.
The last years of my M, The X wasn't emotionally available to talk about my work issues. I wanted to talk to The X about work - but when he wasn't there for me and started to blame many of our problems on my job, I just stopped talking to him and started to resent him... He wanted the benefits of my income but just didn't get that I needed emotional support - preferably his support. He refused to acknowledge or understand the demands my job was placing on me. I wanted to talk to him about changing jobs b/c it was affecting our M - he would just get annoyed and say that all I wanted to talk about was work.
I had to talk to someone - so there were my friends that happen to be male... But in my case, although I have a close friendship with my the male friends - they are purely platonic friends.
I am rambling - but I just wanted to see maybe where your H was coming from.
I think your H wants you to understand why he worked as hard as he did.
I'm with Sage! Over the weekend, I'd say you jumped with both feet forward which kinda resulted in landing on your butt like a long distance jumper! What counts is where the feet landed! From this point, pick yourself back up on your feet and start focusing on your the next move.
He is still in the midst of wrestling with all his stuff, too. (Since when did DBing start sounding like an Olympic event?) But some backlashing is gonna occur. Don't react to it ... detach from it and validate.
Hang in there Jackie, its all still forward progress.
My H did alot of this at first...I think it is so soon after he moved out, he seemed to WANT to pull back after forward steps to justify his moving out. JMHO! the WA seem to step back and say "whoa, wait a minute, I just moved out. I shouldn't be having these thoughts about reconcilliation this soon. I would look really stupid if I made all of this fuss for a few weeks in my own space"
to me, it is like a proof that the problems were insurmountable...if they immediately start giving back in, it makes them look stupid? Am I making sense here? Kinda like they want to save face, even if for just themselves?
Thanks everyone. I'm just this big basket case. When he first left, it was easy, let him call, initiate contact, just give him space. Then the waters begin to get murkier and I lose sight of everything.
Odga, It is so simple, that filter, yet I tend to forget. Maybe my goal needs to be refined, previously it was to not do anything that would close the door to reconcilliation. But I'm perhaps getting greedy, wanting more than what I have.
Mockers, I feel like I'm in the yeah, but stage. Yeah, those were all positives, but he didn't admit thia and that...etc. More on this in a moment.
Manisha, You do help, I think I'm losing complete perspecitve on the whole work thing. I believe I resent it because it has come before me in the past few years. If they call or need him, no matter what our plans (we move vacations that have been scheduled, miss kid events) work comes first. I think the kids and me should come first, and perhaps this is faulty thinking. I should be grateful he is employed and makes an income that supports us. I think I can see your perspective because I'm not emotionally attached and there isn't all the baggage as with H and I, so thank you.
KAW, it is an olympic sport, but the thing is there are so many different areas we must compete in! And be proficient. And I seem to be able to only focus on one things at a time.
Cupcake, sometimes I think he is looking for validation from other people and maybe my actions to justify leaving. If I react badly or say bad things about him or his family, he was right. Maybe he is unconsiously pushing my buttons to see how I'll react. And, unfortunately, it works.
To continue my horrible, no good, very bad day, H called on the way back to work from his therapist appointment. He liked her, that is good, and apparently I was the subject of conversation. The T thinks I am a very unhappy, miserable, bitter person. (I probably am adding adjectives, but unhappy is a fact). H told her about our last T and how the T just really laid into all my faults and the new T said I was just a glutton for punishment or sadistic. They analyzed that perhaps I am unhappy being a stay at home mom and not working, and that I enjoy other things, not what I am or do. That I'm just a basically unhappy person. I made a comment to H, that he goes to T and now I have things to think about. H flipped on that, I didn't think it was a negative statement.
But this whole thing has rocked me. Am I really that unhappy? Does H not tell me things because I take it all personally and I'm unreasonable? Do I have the bad case of anything is never enough, I always want more and I'm not satisfied with what I have. It is like a whole new element has been opened up, not just that H is unhappy being married to me, but I'm a unhappy person.
I know he will call tonight, and I'm so tempted to refuse to speak to him, but I think that would be a mistake. There has to be some truth in all this and I need to look at it. I have to validate and just listen to the critcisms of me, take the winds out of his sails, as Odga said.
How did I ever get here? I drive a mini-van, life in a McHouse, and don't work. Things I always said as a twenty-year old that I would never do. So was my 20 year old self wise or did I just grow up? Have I changed that much in 10 years or did I just go along with all this because it was the easy thing to do?
I don't believe a T would actually say you are an unhappy person, when you weren't even there. Was H projecting himself?? What T would be talking about you. T should focus on H. Doesn't she know that we can only control ourselves??
I've never sensed you were unhappy with your life. Even when I met you. What???? Are you unhappy other than with your present R?? Don't let someone else tell you what to believe and who you are!!! nik
Quote: But this whole thing has rocked me. Am I really that unhappy? Does H not tell me things because I take it all personally and I'm unreasonable? Do I have the bad case of anything is never enough, I always want more and I'm not satisfied with what I have. It is like a whole new element has been opened up, not just that H is unhappy being married to me, but I'm a unhappy person.
Ah...I have heard this too...and I can relate to how "rocking one's world" it can be...
I've got a bunch of different thoughts on this...don't know if any of them will resonate with you..
1. Pre-bomb I was much more stressed about every little thing and I spent time acting that way/complaining. I've cut out a lot of the anger over really trivial things so I think I'm at a much better baseline now...but I still do get really stressed out sometimes (this week is a good example) and feel as though I overwhelm my h with that negative energy....do you feel as though the "little" things may affect you too much? (by little thing I might mean that he forgot to pick up milk or I can't get to the post office before it closes or something like that)
2. (sweeping gender stereotype) -- I vent and talk about stuff that's bothering me...h doesn't...I think it's a mars and venus thing...I'm TRYING to let him know that it's not that I'm more unhappy than he is but that I need to process stuff out loud...in the interim, I'm trying to vent to my girlfriends, on the bb, etc
3. I think some of the "you're not happy" means "I don't think I can make you happy" in my sitch....I was NOT very good at noting and commenting on h's positives pre-bomb so I'm working hard at that to let him know how much I appreciate his efforts
4. finally...I read in the "Highly sensitive person" that it's quite common for HSPs to be told "you're never happy" by non-HSPs....IOW, I think about things a lot, mull them over, could go on and on about this nuance or that...to non-HSPs that mulling over seems like unhappiness whereas to HSPs that mulling over seems like good, clean fun.
It HAS been liberating for me to shed some of the small stuff, Jackie...it may be for you too if that's an issue but a combo of some of the other stuff (if it applies) may be needed too.
Gotta run. Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I am so sorry that the T has characterized you so unfairly. I have met you and you do not strike me as a generally unhappy miserable and bitter person. On the contrary, I found you to be so upbeat, making the best of things and there for me even when things were tough for you.
Good therapists usually don't talk about other people - they focus on the patient. I am surprised that the T would say such things about you - especially during the first session!
I know that when The X went to C, he would always start out by putting me down - and how the T was his ally in affirming his beliefs about me. Usually as time went by, the T would start to guide his actions to treat me better.
Maybe your H was just venting during the first session and the T was just validating to gain his trust. Your H is feeling insecure about his decision and twisting T's words into support for his decision. It may be your H is projecting his own feelings onto you right now. He is after all feeling, unhappy, miserable and somewhat bitter by his own admission.
Give it time, Jackie. Meanwhile maintain your perspective and continue to work on yourself and take responsibility for your 50% - but no more.
You are a wonderful person. We all have faults - we are human - but none of us are the monsters that our WAS make us out to be!
If you need to get away, feel free to come and visit me. You are welcome anytime. Just give me 24 hours to clean my house! It is a mess!
), have more dates, plan your trip to London, look forward to Retrovaille, have fun with him, take care of you. 
Over the weekend, I'd say you jumped with both feet forward which kinda resulted in landing on your butt like a long distance jumper! What counts is where the feet landed! 
From this point, pick yourself back up on your feet and start focusing on your the next move.
But some backlashing is gonna occur. Don't react to it ... detach from it and validate. 