Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Hi Jackie. Sounds like you and I are in the same weird spot right now. Our sitch's are so similar and how are H's are behaving is similar too.
Tell you what - you keep my PMA up and I'll help with yours.
How was your weekend? I hope it went well and was good for you. The weekends will get easier and you will find that the list of things you want to get done without "helpers" will grow. You'll be able to get sooooo much done! And feel such acomplishment.
Hang in there.
totite
"Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative..."
T--it's a deal, we'll keep each other up while this stuff is so crazy.
Cupcake--I think you are right, there seems to be after the fun of being on your own wears off and you realize you are still miserable, confusion must set in. If I'm not the reason for all the unhappiness, must set about trying to figure what is?
M--I think H is a classic come close, pull away mode. I'll get my hopes up when he is turing towards me and as soon as I have processed it all, he is turing away.
Water--I swear this soup gets rave reviews. We have gone to a bunch of parties where you have to bring soup and I do this one everytime because it is so easy.
In a crockpot:
3 can progresso black bean soup 1 jar salsa Tobasco sause to taste.
H is to take the kids on Friday night for the weekend. He comes over and gives me about a 5 minute hug. Very upset. He asks if he can hang around for a bit, I say sure, we order pizza.
H tells me he is sorry he has been such a bad husband, that he has had a lot of time to think and he thinks he has made a mistake. I basically just listen and don't say anything. I don't know what to say. Of course I want him home, but it is running through my mind what I have heard so much about people moving back in together before they are ready. I don't want to go through him leaving again.
He asks me how he can work on us while he needs to work on him. I tell him to first work on him, then worry about us. He needs to do that first. I'm thinking I'm being generous in giving him time, but later that evening he tells me he is hurt by that statement. I try to explain my reasoning.
He leaves s4 here while he goes to boyscouts as s4 is being very cranky. I'm having a scrapbook thing at my house till midnight, so friends are coming over.
S4 falls asleep and H returns later to pick him up. H decides he'll let boys sleep here and return at 5am so I can get on the road.
H comes over around 1 am, still upset and agitated. We talk a bit and I try to explain, again, what I meant about working on himself. He has called a therapist for an appointment. He also talked that in addition to working on us, we will also have to repair relationships with the parents and each sibling. For some reason we didn't get to discuss this, it was more a statement he said. I have only told him I'm hurt his Ps haven't called, I have not let him know the extent of my anger towards them and i'm very glad I have kept a lid on that.
He then went to sleep on the couch as it was approaching 1:30 and I had to be up early.
In the morning he thanked me for letting me stay. He and the boys stayed here this weekend and he washed the van and cleaned up all of the black bean mess. He also mowed the lawn and got me caught up on laundry. I thanked him and told him how much I appreciated the help.
When I got home Sunday night I thought we might get the kids to bed and resume our conversation. But, he said I'll let you have some time with the kids and he left.
I want to email him and explain to him my reasoining on the issue statement, my thoughts on repairing Rs with family (I think my family will do what I ask them and it won't be that difficult) and a suggestion Ellie gave me that we should have date nights where we just have fun and have no R talk. Should I bring this up in a eamil or conversation or should I sit on it and wait until he brings it up?
I feel after the opening up, he will pull back. I don't think I'm quick enough to respond when we talk, I want to think about things and then respond. As when I respond, it isn't what he is looking for.
I feel after the opening up, he will pull back. I don't think I'm quick enough to respond when we talk, I want to think about things and then respond. As when I respond, it isn't what he is looking for.
I'm not totally sure I understand what you mean by the end of this...I interpreted it to mean that you don't always feel prepared to talk when he first brings this up but then when you reinitiate a conversation he doesn't want to talk about it again? Or did you mean that when you bring it up again it appears that how you interpreted the conversation isn't what he meant?
I think I'm having a brain cramp!
Would you say that in your R -- h is a talker? Are you a talker?
Quote: I want to email him and explain to him my reasoining on the issue statement, my thoughts on repairing Rs with family (I think my family will do what I ask them and it won't be that difficult) and a suggestion Ellie gave me that we should have date nights where we just have fun and have no R talk. Should I bring this up in a eamil or conversation or should I sit on it and wait until he brings it up?
You've talked about a bit of a cycle with h...he gets a bit closer then moves away...do you think that bringing this all up in an email with help or hurt that cycle? IOW, do you think that he gets overloaded with R talk and pulls away? If so...I'd say maybe sit on this for a while...
What do you think about actually planning a "date" and asking him to go (as opposed to telling him that you're going to do that?)
Just babbling, Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Half the time I don't know what I'm thinking. No wonder I confuse him and everyone else.
Quote: I interpreted it to mean that you don't always feel prepared to talk when he first brings this up but then when you reinitiate a conversation he doesn't want to talk about it again? Or did you mean that when you bring it up again it appears that how you interpreted the conversation isn't what he meant?
When he brings something up, I believe he has an expectation as to what I should say, or what he wants me to say. I feel like I need to analyze the real meaning to the conversation (would like to have those cue cards to what is really meant by his words!). However, it I don't say much and think it all through, when I'm prepared to talk about it, he isn't in the frame of mind for a R talk. Probably where validating would be the best course of action instead of offering my opinions. Just think of myself on a fact gathering mission.
Quote: Would you say that in your R -- h is a talker? Are you a talker?
Oh, I am the talker. I make the plans and decisons in the family life, part of the problem. He never took the initative to do things socially or in the R, I always did, and if he had a differing opinion, I would state my reasons and we would go from there. Sometimes it was so frustrating--where would you like to go for dinner? I don't care. What ould you like to do? Whatever. Sometimes I wondered how he could be so successful as a manager and he couldn't make a decision at home. So, to list a huge fault of mine, I think when he did express an opinion I would bull-doze right over it as I believe what I was doing was the right thing.
Quote: do you think that he gets overloaded with R talk and pulls away? If so...I'd say maybe sit on this for a while...
I don't know the answer to this one. I have avoided R talks for the past year, rarely bringing them up as he never seemed receptive to them. Though, some of the best exchanges we have had are either late at night or via email.
I like the date idea. Just ask, are you free Saturday night? Okay, I'll pick you up at 7 and see how that goes. Actions, not words.
Quote: Half the time I don't know what I'm thinking. No wonder I confuse him and everyone else.
Just a gentle word of caution (that I should listen to also ) - I know you're kind of kidding here, but be kind to yourself. You are handling an extremely stressful time beautifully. Give yourself a break. This is a confusing ride.
Quote: Though, some of the best exchanges we have had are either late at night or via email.
Could you validate when he brings the R subjects up - this helps him see you're listening and gives you time to think through things before talking to him about it. Also, it may lessen the feeling you have of trying to say the right thing/the thing he wants to hear. Then when you feel he might be receptive - late at night or through email - maybe bring up your thoughts?
Another idea would be to validate while he's talking then let him know when you've thought things through that you'd like to talk a little bit more about XYZ, whenever he feels ready/comfortable/etc.
You know him best, Jackie. Trust your instincts about what to do.
Quote: Probably where validating would be the best course of action instead of offering my opinions. Just think of myself on a fact gathering mission.
This is what I was trying to say. I think this is a good plan.
I see some very hopeful things in your post, Jackie. It is good that he's talking. You are doing a great job. (((((Jackie))))))
Mockers2
"Somehow we survive, and tenderness frustrated does not wither." Dennis Brutus, South African poet
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Quote: Half the time I don't know what I'm thinking. No wonder I confuse him and everyone else.
OK...let me agree with Mockers...please be gentle with YOU! There wasn't anything inherently confusing about your post...I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying before I launched into one of my lengthy posts.
Sage: wordwordwordwordpausewordwordword Dagny: Thanks. But I meant....
Ya know?
Quote: When he brings something up, I believe he has an expectation as to what I should say, or what he wants me to say. I feel like I need to analyze the real meaning to the conversation (would like to have those cue cards to what is really meant by his words!). However, it I don't say much and think it all through, when I'm prepared to talk about it, he isn't in the frame of mind for a R talk. Probably where validating would be the best course of action instead of offering my opinions. Just think of myself on a fact gathering mission.
So...there's a bunch of things here...are you sure that you're not putting a spin on h's expectations? IOW, I've felt like you have...h will bring something up and I'll get myself worked up wondering if he wants a particular response, etc...only to find out that if I had taken his statements LITERALLY and just answered them that way, he would have been more than satisfied.
I think you're definitely on the right track about validating...then...when you're ready to come back to something can you say "I'd like to continue our discussion from the other night on XYZ...when would be a good time for that?"
Easier said than done, I know.
Quote: Oh, I am the talker. I make the plans and decisons in the family life, part of the problem. He never took the initative to do things socially or in the R, I always did, and if he had a differing opinion, I would state my reasons and we would go from there. Sometimes it was so frustrating--where would you like to go for dinner? I don't care. What ould you like to do? Whatever. Sometimes I wondered how he could be so successful as a manager and he couldn't make a decision at home. So, to list a huge fault of mine, I think when he did express an opinion I would bull-doze right over it as I believe what I was doing was the right thing.
Um...I can relate.
I did figure out early in DB'ing that there were some things that h truly didn't care about re. decision making and some that he probably did but started say "I don't care" to because I had run roughshod over him so many times he figured he didn't stand a chance.
Is this something that you're working on?
Quote: I don't know the answer to this one. I have avoided R talks for the past year, rarely bringing them up as he never seemed receptive to them. Though, some of the best exchanges we have had are either late at night or via email.
so...what seems sort of interesting is that you say he's not receptive to them but he definitely STARTED one the other night...right? so maybe there's something about when YOU start them? Timing? He feels off guard?
If emails and late nights are working for you, that's awesome.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
It's hard to believe that so much could change in such a short time. I think it is wonderful that your H is thinking he made a mistake. Take it slow and I love the date idea. Keep treating him as a friend. I should probably take my own advice, huh? nik
) - I know you're kind of kidding here, but be kind to yourself. You are handling an extremely stressful time beautifully. Give yourself a break. This is a confusing ride. 
