Looking for help with WAW

[CityGirl]

You really can't control if your W is upset or not. So send what you feel is appropriate and keep moving forward. Honestly, you are your own enemy here as a simple e-mail should occupy two days for you!

While I am not a C I do have to disagree with the pursuit your C is suggesting. Her strong reaction to the flowers should be your gauge.

Honestly, if you are upset she has not repaid the joint funds she took or has failed to help with the house you BOTH own and are trying to sell then only you can change that.

I see no problem requesting a meeting with her to establish tasks you BOTH will need to work on for selling the house and to see about how you will be reimbursed for the funds she took.

I know you know you can't force your W to have a R talk but you certainly can protect yourself and request her help with the house as she will benefit from the sale as well.

Time to set some boundaries!

[mza8]

I sent her the email earlier today. I kept it short and to the point. We'll see if she responds or asks more questions.

Yes, I agree that some of my IC ideas are pursuing. I didn't do any of his ideas, the "miss you", etc.

The money and housework bother me but not that much. What I mean is that they are small things compared to fixing this M.

I guess it really comes down to me needing to continue to be patient with this.

[CityGirl]

I understand your goal is to rebuild your M but the money and the house are big deals.

Your W chose to leave you and decided she wanted to live alone. Her choice but you are not required to fund that choice and if she used joint funds w/o ANY conversation prior to taking them it's a respect issue.

Same with the house. If you will be splitting the proceeds of the house (no matter what the ratio of the split) her helping with the process of selling the house (repairs, upkeep and whatever else needs to be done) is not optional. Again, it's a respect and entitlement issue that needs to be nipped.

I am not suggesting you be ugly or aggressive but I would start approaching the admin side of things (money and house) in a different way.

I would say something along the lines of (for example)...

W: This summer will be a busy time for me and I would like to create a list of weekly tasks we both will need to be responsible for in regard to the house. Also, the funds you drew from our joint account will need to be reimbursed and I have decided it is time to begin splitting accounts and obligations. Thanks!

Who is paying joint bills? IMO 7 months is much too long to go without splitting bills and such. Sometimes it's not so much about the money itself but the idea of such disrespect is acceptable when it comes to JOINT property.

[mza8]

Here's the deal with the money and housework. After she left we kept our money in our joint account. We also had a second account but it was only in her name. I had no job at the time and used money from our joint account for groceries, dog food, doctors visits and to pay our joint bills. That was it. I didn't spend a dime of our joint money on anything else except my 3 DB coach sessions.

When I purchased my DB sessions I had just gotten my new job and I had just opened my own account for my paychecks. I was going to take the money from my first paycheck and reimburse our joint account for the DB sessions. I know W knows about this website because she googled the name when she saw it on our bank statement. I would not have charged it that way but the DB people assured me it would not show up as DB, but it did. Anyway, not sure if she follows me here on not...I don't care.

At this same time my W had contacted me about something, and on the advice I was given here, I didn't respond to her for 3 days. On the third day I noticed she took just about all of the money from our joint account. When I confronted her she was pissed. She told me she took the money because I was spending it on other things besides joint bills. I told her that I have only used the money for our joint bills and for my living necessities like groceries and spent very little money on that. Then she tells me in a very aggravated voice that I spent money from our joint account on Divorce Busting. I tried to explain to her that it was counseling for me just like my other IC sessions which I used some of our money on and she never had a problem with that.

I told her that I was going to reimburse the money with my first paycheck. Then she gets upset and tells me that she hadn't heard from me for days after she contacted me and that's why she took the money because she didn't hear from me. Now this is the same woman who I wouldn't hear from for days. I told her that I was upset and could not believe she would take the money just because I purchased DB sessions and I didn't get back to her for a few days. I understand now that her actions were out of anger and this was her controlling behavior. Anyway, she has the money in a different account that I do not have access to. However, she is paying our joint bills every month so I haven't pressed the issue.

Honestly, this all occurred at a time when her thinking and actions were really in another world. She wanted to sell me our car which we owe more than it's worth. I told her I would take over the payments but she would have to pay me for the negative equity, which wasn't much. She said no to this idea. I said that the car is a joint debt and our joint money needs to pay for it. No again. I told her that I would split the payment with her every month. Again, no. She said SHE no longer considered it a joint debt because I was the one using the car exclusively now. I told her she could use it whenever she wanted. Nope again. Then she tells me that we can just let the bank take the car back. What? She said then we would just owe them for the negative equity portion. Hello? Anyone home in there W?

If she paid me the negative equity portion to take over the car, that would pretty much accomplish the same thing for her to get the car out of her name. Wow! So none of this happened. The car is still in both of our names. I pay for the payment each month and the insurance which she still needs to be one since her name is still on the title. Nice. She driving her mom's car now which I think they probably gave to her. I'm guessing she's paying for her own insurance for it but who knows for sure. So that's the car sitch.

Last but most certainly not least, the house. Ah yes, the house. Keeping in mind our financial troubles, we were in danger of losing our house last year. I (me and only me) worked with our bank to work out a loan modification. When W left, the first reason she gave me because I didn't have a job and she was not going to sign for a loan modification since I didn't have a job. It took months top get anything done with the bank. We had no modification yet when she left. Before she left she was so stressed out with the house.

I kept telling her to hang in there and I'm sure the bank will eventually work with us and we can keep our house. Ironically, less than a month after she left the bank gave us a loan modification. We could have (and still can) afford to keep our house under this modification. The bank still does not want our house. I've explained to them that this has been very stressful and W and I are separated. Also tod them house is for sale and got them to agree that we don't need to make any mortgage payments while house if for sale. I told W this and figured she would be pleased but nothing.

The bank said if W and I get back together before the house sells, the loan modification offer is still on the table. As a matter of fact they have made us an even better offer. If this would have happened 8 months ago (house modification and my job) I am sure that W and I would still be together and still be in our house together. We have both moved out. She with her parents and me with mine. Our vacant house sits with a for sale sign in the yard.

I remember after my W left that she was so stressed out with the house she just wanted to get rid of it anyway she could. She was willing just to let it go to foreclosure and was willing to possibly have our wages garnished when the bank would come after us (and I told her they will) for whatever the amount owed after auction. I couldn't believe my ears. Hello! McFly! After a month of talking to her she started to think smart and talked about selling the house. I remember a conversation I had with her father early on after she left. He told me that the house was a huge stress for her and that she probably couldn't even think about the M until the stress of the house was off her shoulders. He seemed to think selling the house would make a difference. Well, the house is for sale, so we'll see.

Sorry for the long post but it felt good to get it out. So as far as the joint money is concerned, she is using it to pay the monthly bills. I already did all of the work to fix the house up (which she didn't want to help). I can understand why she might not have wanted to help with the house because it was too painful for her to be in it. She cried when we signed the papers to put it for sale. Others have told me she said it's hard for her to sell the house. It's such a damn shame. I've got a job now, we have a modification from the bank and could finally have the past behind us and stay in our house. I know she loves this house. The night she cried signing the house papers, I emailed her to check on her and said I love our house too but only she matters to me and I would live anywhere as long as it's with her. She emailed me back a couple days later and thanked me for thinking of her, told me it is hard selling the house but it's the right thing to do.

This is all so damn sad. We are where we are because of money. Plain and simple. That's why it's so frustrating for me watching this M fall apart when the biggest problem (as I see it) has been fixed.

Yes, I still love my wife more than ever!

[konfuseeed]

it's so frustrating for me watching this M fall apart when the biggest problem (as I see it) has been fixed.

THIS I can relate to completely.

I have no insight or advice, cause, well... I'm a little drunk.

Just wanted to let you know I'm here and I'm following along.

Stay strong, guy.

[CityGirl]

Well, she can't love the house *that* much if she is willing to keep it on the market despite the fact an alternate solution has been put in place (loan modification that as per your post is doable). Why aren't you living in the house?

If you can swing it keep the house. If you almost lost the house last year I would guess there is little to no equity in it therefore there is nothing for you to have to "buy out" from her. If she wants the proceeds from the house let her wait until you are ready to sell it.

You seem like a nice guy and I know this is tough but IMO you are coming across as very soft and weak. Couples have financial problems and if your W couldn't handle it, well, chances are as other major life problems come up she would behave in a a like manner. She chose to walk away. Her choice but why would you give up a house simply because it causes her stress?

Like you said... if your W wanted to me in the marriage where you live would not be an issue. Keep the house if you can and let her see you are making choices for you that no longer include her desires.

[mza8]

CityGirl, all good advice. Thanks again.

I don't think my W trusts me that we can afford the house now. Maybe she doesn't trust that I will keep a job? She used to tell me that I wouldn't like just any job. She thought I would be unhappy and blame her for forcing me to take a job I didn't like. This was BS. I didn't appreciate her telling me how I would feel and also that she was more worried about how whatever job I took would make her feel...feel like I was unhappy with it and blame her.

I'm not on the house right now because she would want me to pay for the utilities and such. I have no problem paying half but she won't go for that. Things are kind of tight right now for another month or two as I'm saving to go back to school. I applied for a few grants but didn't qualify because my income is above the eligibility level. So I'm paying for it on my own. There's a good chance I can move back in the house in a month or two if it hasn't sold. I miss my house and I would love to move back when possible. You are correct that I really wouldn't have to buy her out as there's not that much equity.

I like to think I'm a nice guy. My W has never dealt well with any kind of life crisis. She has always been a bury her head in the sand type of person. During my companies struggles, I was the one dealing with it even though she worked at my company with me. When the house problems came up, you guessed it, I was the one to deal with the bank. I didn't mind taking the leadership role as the H to protect my W from dealing with the stress (I have learned to deal with problems pretty well), but it would have been nice for my W to at least give me some emotional support...like I always did for her. It would have been nice if she knew what I was going through.

Yes, I feel like I should put my foot down a bit more with her now. If I bring up the money she will bring up wanting to sign a separation agreement or talk about how I was using our joint money for non-joint items...BS on that one. I would have no problem bringing up her needing to help with the house. She could come in and clean once a week. I mow the yard and take care of the yardwork every week. Actually I enjoy doing the yardwork. I know her answer. She will say she will use our joint money to pay for someone to clean the house each week. I don't want to spend our joint money on that when she should be helping. So what's the choice in this situation? I feel like she'll blow it off again. What if she does? As I see it there's not much I can do but huff and puff...what action can I take here? I'm open to any advice.

Looking at other peoples threads it seems like most are at least in communication with their Ws. I know my W and I don't have kids and that reduces the reasons we would need to communicate. However, it's been 7 months and still no talk from W other than about house or business stuff. I don't think I remember reading another sitch where the couple didn't talk about the R in 7 months. She hasn't emailed me back from my reply yesterday. No surprise there. Since I waited so long she will probably wait too. Gotta love this game playing.

I know I pushed her back with the flowers and it will take some time to make-up for that one. A few more emails from her lately is better I guess. Maybe she's a bit more comfortable now (after the flower mistake) that she feels she can start communicating again...even if it's just about the house for now.

Thanks for listening.

[CityGirl]

It seems you have made good progress with your job and finances so I say why not go back to the house. If she doesn't trust the two of you can afford it, well, no problem! If you trust in yourself that you can afford it that is a huge plus for many reasons. It will get you out of your parents house, allow you to keep your house instead of trying to buy another one (might not be easy in this economy with a 2 yr gap in employment) and honestly might help garner some trust with your W and your ability to support owning a a a home on your own.

I sense you are afraid any action on your part will make your W angry and that is not a good way to live.

Sometimes you have to work with what is in front of you and right now the "material" you have to work with is an empty house, a solution from the bank to keep the house and a W that is not in a place to work in the R. What is best for you life now?

I would simply say: W, now that I have secured a good paying job and have explored my options with the bank I have decided to move back in the house on X date.

[Glimmerman]

mza8

Hey, man, just wanted to give you another tool that can benefit you in thinking of how to proceed with your W.

Look at the John Trent/Gary Smalley personality profiles. It's the one that has lion, otter, golden retriever, and beaver. I did a google search for various feedback on it, and it will help me in a big way as I deal with my situation. You have been married long enough to know both your and your W's personalities.

The way it is helping me is to know how TO relate to my W, and how NOT TO relate to my W based on our personalities. There are other personality test out there, but I found this one easy and very accurate. It is helping me understand some of the "why's" that I'm asking myself.

Take a look at it when you have time.

[mza8]

might help garner some trust with your W and your ability to support owning a a a home on your own.

This is a thought that has always crossed my mind. I agree with this statement.

What is best for you life now?

Moving back home... I miss my home.

I would simply say: W, now that I have secured a good paying job and have explored my options with the bank I have decided to move back in the house on X date.

Yes, I like this.

I was talking to a friend of mine this weekend. He and I are going to have lunch this week. He might have a job for me where he works...a very good job. If I can get this job I could be more comfortable affording to move back home. I might be able to move back with my current job but it would be tight.

I might wait until I have lunch with friend this week before I tell W that I will be moving back home. She's going to flip. She'll ask me all kinds of questions like, are you going to pay for the bills now since you'll be living there?, are we still selling the house?, if not, are you going to buy me out?, etc. My response will be, "Now that I have secured a good paying job, I have decided to move back into the house as this is best for me. Regarding your other questions, I will take this one step at a time." When I tell W this I will also bring up the joint money. This conversation will probably happen in a couple of weeks. I need to get some things in order first. One of my conerns with moving back is if W will come over one day when I'm not there and take any furniture, or worse, take the dogs. I would be surprised if she did but who knows. Legally, I don't think I can change the locks as she can still come in the house.

This friend was telling me he and his W are separating. He told me they were separated for two years a while back. They got back together a year ago and are separating again. He's going to tell me his story at lunch this week and offer any help/advice for me with my sitch. He was totally shocked when I told him about W and I. He said he knows how much I am "head over heels in love with W". He wants us to get back together as do all of my friends.

I saw another friend over the weekend. He said he and another friend of mine saw W at the gym a few weeks ago. She said hello to him and he had no idea who she was at first because she had lost so much weight. He tells her, "oh, you are mza8's W". He couldn't believe how thin she is. She said she could lose the weight when she wanted. I thought that was an interesting comment. Meaning she didn't want to the lose the weight before? Anyway, he introduced other friend to W and said this is mza'8 W. He said she never mentioned anything that we were separated. Their conversation lasted only a few minutes. I was surprised she didn't tell him that we are separated. She had been telling everyone. He was also shocked to hear the news.

So many people I tell about my sitch advise me to give her time and be patient. They all know my W pretty well.

W emailed me back early this morning replying to my email from Friday. Kind of surprised she emailed back so early. She must have replied as soon as she got to work. She said she emailed the agent last week to add the name sign and brochure box. I had asked her what other lanscaping ideas she was thinking of from her email. She said she wasn't sure of any other ideas other than to take out some tress. She said she thinks the trees make the yard smaller but said we'll wait and see. So I guess she agreed with me on this or at least she's not pushing the issue. She finished by saying she hoped the agent had an open house this past weekend. That was about it.

Her conversations are still only about the house. One boundary that I am thinking of telling her is to include me on all emails to the agent about the house. I should be included on those emails.

This agent hasn't done a lot of what she promised. She hasn't responded to W about the name sign yet. The agent doesn't contact us when there is a showing or with any feedback. I also know the agent did not have an open house this past weekend. The agent said she was going to have an open house every other weekend and that hasn't happened. My W is the kind of person that when you tell her you're going to do something, she will hold you to it. Big mistake by agent to commit to something and not stick to it. I've got to think that this is irritating W. I've been keeping quiet and watching it happen as this is my W's decision to use this agent. Don't know if I should tell W that agent isn't doing a good job or just let it go for now. Feel like telling my W that when this contract with agent expires, we might need to reevaluate and possibly choose a different agent. However, why would I care anyway as I don't want to sell the house if I can afford it? Part of me thinks the agent isn't doing too much because she thinks we might want to keep the house. Either way I don't really care if the agent does her job or not.

Anyway, I might email W back later today just to acknowledge her email and that's it. Some of my friends like the idea of me texting W this Wednesday (W and my 20 year anniversary of our first date) and just say, "thinking of you today". That's it, nothing more. I don't know. I'd like to keep some emotion/feeling in this sitch with W. That's pretty much the update from the weekend.