"want to know if anybody else out there experienced the same thing and was able to turn things around."
Yes. Me.
was your s obsessed with the money and material goods? did your s want to walk out with everything? at the same time, accuse you of being greedy and vindictive?
why did you stay and fight? what gave you strength when everyone says he/she should love you for who you are? why are you changing yourself to make someone love you?
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"at this point, he's making himself look very unattractive."
Been there too.
you really want to hold up a mirror to the other person and ask if they are proud of themselves?
it's not even about the money. it's about the way he's going about it. padding numbers. whatever happened to full disclosure and honesty? i was honest with my numbers. i didn't pad and didn't hide. now i get his and it's like .. wow. where did these suddenly come from? mysterious debts? mysterious cash from parents to us? i think he's stretching the truth on most. he can prove them but i think they are half truths. i'm sure his parents gave us money and it was for "us" at the time. but on paper, he's going to say it was for him.
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This is a boundary.. of sorts. If something is unacceptable to you.. and not what you want.. why can't you state that? You don't have to go along joyfully with this. Again.. at the very least.. he will question himself.. and all his thoughts about you. As long as you react in a way that is healthy for you.. and you can hold your head high cause you know what you did was right and honorable. Then people will "see" it. You don't let the situation control you. Your actions.. are your responsibility. No one other than you is making you act this way right now.
"greatness is not a function of circumstance. it is largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline."
my obsession with his unfound infidelity needs to be tamed. it drives me insane. that's why i need to get away from here. i can't stay here in this state. it's unproductive.
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Anything acquired within the contract of marriage in most states is "joint". And to a point he has a claim to it.
yes, but anything acquired pre-marriage is yours to keep. a lot of the jewellery he has claimed was given to me pre-marriage. why is he laying claim on it? in the eyes of the law, it's mine.
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This is why you don't want to buy a house now!
um, and what if he did? anything acquired after the date of separation is off limits i believe. which means i can go and buy a house.
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"let's not forget - who asked for this." Again.. most states.. don't care. Sucks..
luckily, where i am. it can factor into play.
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Sometimes.. you have to make smart choices.. no matter what the cost is.
i'll drive out myself.
i will take a short nap. shower, pack, and go. friend of mine has already made a shopping and lunch date with me for sunday. to get my mind off of everything.
hi ajm - welcome to my crazy thread. sorry you had to meet me in the state i was in this week.
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Don't try to eat this elephant all at once - they are best eaten in pieces.
but it tastes yucky. you want to eat it all and fast so you don't gag.
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He will want the pain to stop for himself as well.
somehow i don't buy this one. i don't think he feels pain. he feels sorry for himself because he's being taken advantage of this jezebel here. and i feel no sympathy. this is a matter of conscious choice for him. so now he should feel great.
if he doesn't, i just want to say "i told you so but you listened to your mommy and daddy." go ahead, continue to blame me. you're looking extremely stupid by the minute.
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I can tell you that your H will not remember much of this the same way you will. Really. It's bizarre, but it's true.
how so? can you give me an example.
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Finally - take deep breaths. Often. What you feel is perfectly normal and we have all done the same. Some for longer than others. It has a new set of emotions that will follow. Your roller coaster is going to be interesting for a while. Take the ride. Get your money's worth and you may be surprised at what you find. In a good way
are you speaking from experience? please share.
i am going to try and be calm. i think i am doing the right thing by leaving for a few days. this week has just be nasty.
Ha. You have a sense of humor in there. I can sense it
Of course he feels pain. Why do you think he is doing what he is doing? Because it's fun??? There is nothing fun about divorce for anyone. Ever talked to a lawyer and LIKED it? I mean really. Duh. <sounding like one of my teens>
Am I speaking from experience? Oh YES I AM. On all counts. The deep breaths. The trying really hard to not to run away. (did you know that in divorce there is almost always a very strong desire for one of the spouses to run far away at some point in the process? - normal..)
One tactic I learned is to stop, breathe, and visualize myself happy. And also to look around at the great things going on in my life instead of being consumed and highly focused on how I was being done wrong. As I started getting better at that, I noticed that my outlook on things was also changing. Basically, what I had been doing wasn't working. Am I "there" yet? Nope. But that's not likely to happen overnight. It'll take time. And effort. Just like forgiveness does. But it's not time for forgiveness yet for you. You have much work to continue doing prior to that. But I do recommend you start now since it does take a while and a lot of effort. Take a few days to get away. But be away. Try not to talk too much about this stuff. If you do, try to limit it and don't let others tell you what to do. You have to live with your choices, not them. Be sure you can look back and not regret the choices you made.
Keep in mind he will do all kinds of nasty things. The money? He'll try to be as selfish as he can and likely use anger to help him feel justified. It's normal for humans to do that, right? Don't be surprised by it.
"Forgiveness is a gift we first give ourselves" - Suzanne Sommers (of all people
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
"was your s obsessed with the money and material goods?"
Well we really did not have any money to speak of. She was working it anyway she could to keep the house. At the very best we would have ended up D and even. There would have been no way for her to keep the house. She could not have afforded to buy me out. We had enough debt that any value in the house would have been absorbed.
"did your s want to walk out with everything?"
She pushed me into a position that the best choice was to move out. I seem to remember I was really not happy about that.
"at the same time, accuse you of being greedy and vindictive?"
Of course. Everything was my fault. That is how it works.
"why did you stay and fight?"
Cause it was the right thing to do.. and I love her.
"what gave you strength when everyone says he/she should love you for who you are? why are you changing yourself to make someone love you?"
Well.. she does love me for who I am. Even then when she was wanting to get out. I am pretty easy going.. which gets interrupted as "not caring". She wanted me to be more vocal.. and lead more. I don't know that I changed in the normal sense of the word. Who I am.. how I think.. that all still functions the same. I changed the things that rubbed her the wrong way. It was not my intention for what I was doing to hurt her.. but it came across that way to her.
"you really want to hold up a mirror to the other person and ask if they are proud of themselves?"
In the moment.. and if asked that question.. they will likely say yes. There is a good possibility that they would answer no.
Ask the question. It is within the scope of something you could ask. Again.. be sincere. Not angry. If you ask angry.. I will assure you the answer will be yes.
Are you proud of yourself right now?
"my obsession with his unfound infidelity needs to be tamed. it drives me insane."
Is it the act.. or is it the thought that if you knew.. it would make this easier? Be careful with this. Sometimes we do things that make us hurt more.
"um, and what if he did? anything acquired after the date of separation is off limits i believe. which means i can go and buy a house."
I am not a L. But.. right now.. a house.. just not a good idea! There are soooo many things that just not right about that for you.. from my perspective. Maybe I am wrong.. Maybe it is the thing that changes your whole "perspective". I just don't "see" it.
"luckily, where i am. it can factor into play."
You have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the kicker. Where I live.. you basically have to have pictures of them "doing it". Here it only stops any support payments. Everything is still split down the middle. There was a post around here about a woman who got a ton of money from it. If you are separated.. it really would not matter.
"i'll drive out myself.
i will take a short nap. shower, pack, and go. friend of mine has already made a shopping and lunch date with me for sunday. to get my mind off of everything."
Sounds like a plan. Have fun. Or at least try.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I am with family now. Driving on 2.5 hours of sleep is not recommended. But I made it here safely. I still get small urges but there are distractions. I slept okay but still feel groggy. Will take it easy today. Called the L and made my point. My heels are dug into the ground. I am taking a stand. It isn't about the material things. I have had enough of the h interpreting the law his way to work in his favor. I have done the honorable thing so far. I will no longer put up with his BS. If he wants to take all of these gifts back then it goes both ways. Every piece of stemware given to him by me belongs to me (according to his definition). Every watch, bottle of wine, rare scotch, and that iPhone case belongs to me. Two can play that game but I didn't.
Breathe. Deep breaths. Eyes closed. "greatness is not a function of circumstance. It is largely a matter of conscious choice and discipline." "whether you prevail or fail, it depends on what you do to yourself, and not what the world does to you."
because a D is a lawsuit, they ask for the world so they can negotiate back to the middle.
i will not negotiate based on that list. everything on that list belongs to me. i should not have to negotiate what belongs to me.
i did not list gifts i gave him and claimed it as my own. so if he wants to set the rules that way, then let's get petty and list everything down to the individual toothpick. every crystal wine glass, every bottle of rare scotch, every wrist watch, every picture, every shaving product, every clothing item, etc. we can make this as stupid as he wants. as if it isn't stupid already.
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You have to get out of your emotional start and start thinking and planning. I know it's hard.
i'm lost. what am i supposed to think about? what am i supposed to plan for?
i have already signed up for my own activities. he is spending what would have been our anniversary with parents. it's funny. he wanted to spend our first anniversary with them instead of me.
it's like he never loved me. at this stage, i'm not even sure if he will ever.
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It's not a dream it's your reality for now. Do you have a L?
yes. and he laughed at the list. he also said he expected it because we spoke about it when we worked on my statements.
Of course he feels pain. Why do you think he is doing what he is doing? Because it's fun??? There is nothing fun about divorce for anyone.
i still don't buy it. i honestly do not feel that he's in any pain. he's doing it for his parents. so they can be proud of him. they are well-versed in divorce and using spineless tactics like that. it's what they do best. and then they stand back and say "we're just innocent people who wouldn't harm a fly." "we're not that kind of people yet why is the world so unfair to us?" yknow why? cuz karma is a b*tch.
i do believe he thinks it's fun. if it hurt so much, he would want this over quickly. i've said all along. if he wants out, then get out!
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But it's not time for forgiveness yet for you. You have much work to continue doing prior to that. But I do recommend you start now since it does take a while and a lot of effort.
i feel like i'm back to square one. i don't know what work i am supposed to do. what am i supposed to work on? detachment? i'm trying to pre-occupy myself with stuff and not think about h. and then the financial statement come in and i have to focus on that again.
when i lost it last week, it was almost as if i knew that something coming around the corner. and then it did.
lost sleep. couldn't eat.
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Keep in mind he will do all kinds of nasty things. The money? He'll try to be as selfish as he can and likely use anger to help him feel justified. It's normal for humans to do that, right? Don't be surprised by it.
it doesn't make it okay. it's been really disappointing to watch someone do that. i don't feel sorry for him because he brought on this anger himself. i didn't trigger it - as much as i like to dig into him.
She pushed me into a position that the best choice was to move out. I seem to remember I was really not happy about that.
did you ever get angry at any point? or lose it on her? i haven't. i learned early on when they are in a fog like that, they don't hear you. so i stopped trying the beat the dead horse.
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Of course. Everything was my fault. That is how it works.
when they come to their senses, what is it like at that point?
how do they get over some of the things they were 100% convinced was irreparable?
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"why did you stay and fight?"
Cause it was the right thing to do.. and I love her.
when you detached, didn't you feel conflicted? you love her yet you must pull away.
he's got all the space in the world now. he has his mom and dad checking up on him every day to ensure we don't reconcile. reminding him that he's doing the right thing.
i can't compete with that. i feel like i'm fighting a losing battle. i love him. and i know fighting for it is the right thing to do. it feels like i'm fighting stage 4 cancer. the cancer has spread everywhere throughout.
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Well.. she does love me for who I am. Even then when she was wanting to get out.
ok. this is the difference. my h doesn't love me and wants out. he no longer does and seems to be trying to show me that he wants all of his love back by taking back everything he's given me.
that's why i waffle. i am trying to make someone love me who says they no longer love me.
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I am pretty easy going.. which gets interrupted as "not caring". She wanted me to be more vocal.. and lead more. I don't know that I changed in the normal sense of the word. Who I am.. how I think.. that all still functions the same. I changed the things that rubbed her the wrong way. It was not my intention for what I was doing to hurt her.. but it came across that way to her.
i'm easy going as well. which is why i was surprised to hear some of the comments from him. gold digging? since when? i never asked for anything. i wouldn't let them do watch the football game? i don't control the remote. it's never in my hand. and i didn't give that "i don't want you to watch football" look. i don't have one. in fact, i like football! i won't let him spend money? we have separate bank accounts, credit cards. i don't keep tabs on what he buys. he's dragging me through his life? what life? he doesn't have a life. i have a life!
he wanted more sex. can't do that now. i can't show him that i'm all for it.
he thinks i'm mean to his mother. well, ok .. but she's a bitch and if i set boundaries, then i'm being mean and unfair.
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Is it the act.. or is it the thought that if you knew.. it would make this easier? Be careful with this. Sometimes we do things that make us hurt more.
i think it's a bit of both. the act is just revolting. he was always the guy who respected his own body. he thinks it's gross to be putting his manhood in a yoohoo that has seen a lot of other menhood. and then there are the diseases etc. i never doubted him. why do i doubt him now? because he could be doing it to hurt me. everything he's done has been to hurt me. so what would the ultimate hurt be? infidelity. that's why i think about it. everyone has been saying that he'll do everything to hurt me. this would just be one more thing.
i'm doing better. but it was best for me to be away.
"Driving on 2.5 hours of sleep is not recommended."
Imagine that.
"But I made it here safely."
Good to hear.
"My heels are dug into the ground."
Remember that. It will come up later.
"It isn't about the material things."
Remember this to.
"did you ever get angry at any point? or lose it on her? i haven't."
Well.. clearly you are about to. You are angry. You have lost it. It just really depends on what chair and keyboard you are using.
Yes.. I was very angry. Why should I have to move out. I have paid for 90% of this house. I worked so she could stay at home with the kids. Why.. should I have to move out? The L told me not to. My friends were telling me not to. The only place I had to go was Mom/Dads.. that sounds like fun.. right? I mean.. friends offered. But.. how long do you think their wives would let that go on? You have the means.. I didn't. Things are different.. but not really. We both "created" space. We both are not happy about that.
"i learned early on when they are in a fog like that, they don't hear you. so i stopped trying the beat the dead horse."
From your reactions so far.. I think you were trying to prove a point. How is that working out for now?
"when they come to their senses, what is it like at that point?"
If there was a "point".. I can't define it for you. There was so much going on at that point.. I honestly can't remember what "changed" things. I can tell you that when all that was going on.. I was just being brutally honest. Her issues were hers.. mine were mine. The silly part about it is that all I had to do was think about my GAL activity.. and my hands started hurting. Maybe it was the look of pain on my face..
"how do they get over some of the things they were 100% convinced was irreparable?"
They come to you. See.. they are making bad choices to. It's all the Emotion. Once they can no longer blame you.. cause you are not "around".. Who can they blame? The things they say.. are based in half truths. Think "Fish Story". Things get bigger the more the story is told.
"when you detached, didn't you feel conflicted? you love her yet you must pull away."
At first.. yes.
"i feel like i'm fighting a losing battle. i love him. and i know fighting for it is the right thing to do."
So....
"it feels like i'm fighting stage 4 cancer. the cancer has spread everywhere throughout."
The first part of your statement.. is based in Emotion.. and inference.
The second part.. begs the question.. Why?
That should be your focus. You have touched on it "here". But you have so much to learn.
"that's why i waffle. i am trying to make someone love me who says they no longer love me."
You can't make someone love you. They do so because of their choice. You were good enough once.. I suspect you could possibly be again.
You forgot how to play the game.
Nothing is any different now than when you were first dating. History.. just makes it a tiny bit harder.
"i'm easy going as well."
Vindictive.. too. I understand.
"i'm doing better. but it was best for me to be away."
I agree. I see the old you returning to the surface.
So.. to sum up.
I think you have your heels dug in on the wrong set of circumstances. It is not the material things that are making you react this way. It is the action of him "digging" at you that keeps you reacting. As long as you keep doing this you will continue to find yourself never moving forward. You will be stuck.. just like you are now. It takes someone with heart.. and "gumption" to do something different. It takes someone with a naive perspective to push things. Even if you get all the words wrong.. let your actions stand out.
Dig your heels into something more solid than the material things. It will be so much easier to stand up.. even if you "loose".
It's your choice. Always has been.
Live like you are.. or throw caution to the wind.. and see what happens.
This little "transaction" you find yourself in.. will define you for the rest of your life. Bet on that!
Who do you want to be?
How do you want the world to "see" you?
Again.. you choose.
Hope you have a great weekend.. and sleep well.
And remember...
Always..
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I just want to add one little thing, as someone who has done this once before...
I think the history you share makes it a litte EASIER with a man. In general, according to Dr. Laura, men are much more likely to forgive and "get over" past hurts. And they don't really want to teach someone new all their little idiosyncrisies. Think about it--men just don't hold grudges.
Women can be really, really tough--they remember everything and "hang on" to stuff much longer.
Think long and hard about before all this--who was the first to "make up" after fights-say they were sorry and want to be done with it all? For me, that is my H.
And as you concentrate on some things about your H, and let other things go, you will "know" him even better than before. And can deal with his fears and insecurities in a new way.
You'll be someone he'll have a hard time forgetting!
please share.