Thanks for the replies! What amazes me about all of this is how it fluctuates....from my W saying something like that - to being distant this morning...a couple of days ago I got a really nice, squeezing hug from her an it made my day. I don't know if I should be distant sometimes or tell her I love and care about her. I try to tell her once a day - she doesn't reply. Confusing to say the least, but ya know? I spent years damaging her feelings, out relationship, and this marriage....sometimes I tell myself "WTF do you expect?" Months ago I was dreaming that she would ever even kiss me or look me in the eye again. I longed to much for even a smile. Now I get those. Baby steps...working on myself to be the best man, parent, lover, friend that a woman can have....and all the while preparing myself emotionally and mentally to let her go. A lady friend told me once "If she leaves you then the next woman you get in a relationship with is gonna SCORE!" :-)
When I was a WAW, my moods would swing radically from that morning to that evening. I was so conflicted about my stitch. One minute I would think that I was going to work on my M and then I'd want to leave and start a brand new life. It's common for WAW's.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the reply sandi2 - it's difficult to figure out what's going on...add the fact that she was sick/run down last weekend, and I was setting up daughter's graduation party and cleaning up afterward. We didn't see much of each other, but when we did it was nice. She was in bed a lot, I'd check on her often, etc.
Over the span of 3 days I got the 'I love you' email, a really nice hug or two with an 'extra squeeze' in it from her, some good looks, etc. and when I mentioned keep some hay bales I got for daughter's graduation bonfire (to sit on), she said something to the effect of 'well when the kids come home from college we can use them again'. Please note that she told me last year when all of this exploded that she had been planning on leaving me after our daughter graduated. That was this past weekend.
WE isn't a word she has used much, especially when talking about our marriage, our house, etc. so I was a bit surprised. I do believe she's changed her mind about leaving, for now, but love and intimacy may or may not come back, I don't know and I can't control that I suppose. Just hope I'm doing the right things to heal the hurt I caused, help her love for me grow, possibly create a new relationship.
This week though, she's in an online class that lasts all day until 6pm then she has to study to prepare for the next day. Basically I come home from work, take care of things and cook food, she'll pop in to eat and we chat a second, then she's off studying and we get to bed separately. Up until this week, we spent time each day talking about our days, chatting about things, laughing, etc. I'm trying to support her during this week, and at the same time giving her breathing room so she can concentrate on this class (it was expensive!) and study without stressing about our problems. At least that's my perspective.
I do miss the hell out of her, so I've left a little note each morning this week...I've kissed her cheek/face/neck each morning while she's in bed, and whispered something to her on my way out the door like 'I love you and I miss you'. Been doing that since day one. I just wonder sometimes if it's all in vain...but then I'll get something from her that will tell my heart to keep working at it. We'll see how it goes.
Just reserved the 'Divorce Busting' book at a B&N close to me....will pick it up on the way home and start reading it tonight.
I wish I had done this months ago - I wouldn't have made some of the mistakes I did...the crying, begging, pleading...all the things that made her lose respect for me, and probably attraction to me. All of the things they tell you NOT to do!
I mean, I've always been a strong person up until that moment. Never cried, covered in tattoos, that sort of thing....but cursed with a soft heart I guess.
After all I've been through and done in my life, who would have thought that the idea of my wife not loving me anymore would have broken me THIS bad? Nothing else had until that moment.
My one and only goal right now is to somehow get her respect, admiration, and sexual attraction back...we'll see. Wow...when I was fat, when I was out of shape, when I was drunk all the time....she would still call me sexy, say I was sooo cute, and climb all over me for sex. Now I've lost 30 lbs, lifting weights, all lean muscle, and look and feel better than I have EVER, EVER have....and 'nada'. I know EXACTLY when this change occurred in her - it was right after I had my crying fits, my breaking down, my begging episodes...all in January/February mostly spanning within a few weeks of each other.
It was like somebody flipped a switch inside of her. Up until then, even with our problems and issues, what had happened the year before, her EA, etc....she was still willing and loving sex with me. We had sex like never before, in fact...in the early stages of this whole thing.
I can believe I broke down like that.
I do see small things in her though, hear things she says. Things that give me hope.
I can use all the energy anyone can send me, and I'll send you the same :-)
Weird, I was given advice in another forum about how to 'try' to win back sexual attraction, etc. from her....and I was told to back off the amount of 'nice things' or 'loving things' I do for her, not the quality of them but the quantity.
This confuses me because my 'not being there' emotionally and physically, is one of the main problems that has caused this whole mess. She holds a lot of resentment still from the way I treated her - I can tell. I would 'think' that backing off wouldn't matter to her at this point because she seems so 'numb' to me about our current situation. I'd imagine it's because of that wall around her emotions and her heart that I helped build. I will though, take the advice simply because I'm willing to try anything and everything, but the reality is when I want an extra hug, or tight squeeze, another kiss, etc. and she barely responds if even at all, well that [censored] hurts! So why do I do it anymore? It's difficult to stop. It's difficult to not want a kiss after the way she smiles at me when I walk in the house! Difficult to gauge where I'm at in this.
At one point in this whole mess I felt like she didn't love me AT ALL and probably would never would again. She had told me, months ago, that she didn't - that was back during her EA and looking back I see that acting that way for her was making it easier for her to 'get out' rather than stick around and work on the marriage or open her heart to me again. Since then, little things here and there....few and far between...have hinted otherwise. I have GREAT intuition and I believe in trusting it. She's even told me she loved me a could of times since then....or replied back when I told her. There was a time when that WAS NOT happening!
Her email the other day with "I love you!!!" in it just blew my mind. A couple of months ago I would never have thought she'd say that to me again. Since then, it's been back to distant and not much else has happened but she HAS been sick all week and been in class, then studying, so I've been considering those factors and trying to just be supportive and understanding.
I'm much stronger now than I ever was - so it's easier to give her space and GAL for myself. I have women hitting all over me now, women friends in good places that I could use (like art gallery owners), but my wife has my freakin' heart and soul right now - which is why I'm here.
After this book, on to the next book!
Anyway thanks to everyone for the help and advice! I'm going to submit another reply with a timeline, something I should have done in the beginning I suppose.
Timeline and my story for those interested or in the same boat and might need advice. Don't know if anyone will read it, but I feel better typing it out.
Married 16 yrs. 2 children.
Last few years: I drank a lot, ignored my wife's emotional needs and her efforts to work on our marriage and family life. We got along though, everything seemed 'decent' but then again I was wasted a lot.
Last summer: My drinking was at it's worst - along with it came anger and I was really ignoring my wife physically, emotionally. She went to a high school reunion in another state and ran into an old friend - I didn't know it at the time. We still got along ok, had sex a lot etc. I had wanted to quit drinking since the beginning of the year but just wasn't doing it. Hindsight 20/20, she has told me that if I HAD done that, none of this would be going on.
Last Fall: I flew off the handle, drunk, about something or another....she left for a day and it hit me that she was probably going to leave me if I didn't stop drinking and behaving like a jerk. I think this is where her EA began, she was working on the guy's website since summer but I wasn't paying attention of course.
Thanksgiving and therabouts: The huge huge fight that set this all in motion...I got wasted, she went out with sisters dancing and I went nuts because she was out all night with them. Stupid, but then again I was wasted. I always had trust issues and this was just a ridiculous way for me to act. Up until that moment we were being sweet to each other, civil, nice, and it seemed like things were ok. After that single incident, she wouldn't let me touch her, she was SO angry at me and it looked then like that was the final straw. She couldn't stand being around me, which made me clingy AS HELL and acting like a desperate puppy or something. It was a mess. I stopped drinking completely and swore to her I'd change, and one night in bed she told me that it wasn't going to work out; that it was too late the damage had been done. She was into her EA (or crush on the guy) at the time but I didn't know it then. I lost it at least once a week, did the pleading/begging/crying/etc....she was very callus and I felt in my heart she was out the door.
Not long afterwards, between thanksgiving and christmas, she told me she was in love with another man she'd ran into during the reunion in the summer, the EA she was having, and since I was fresh out of many year's drunk - my emotions were on my sleeve. Devastating but I hung in there because I knew something about this was all wrong...and that my neglect and drunkeness had caused a lot or most of these problems. PLUS he's gay which didn't make sense. She said to me more than once that if I had only been there for her, none of this would have happened. I felt the same way.
Not long after that, we were getting along, out having coffee, and said she wanted an open marriage....wanted to be with him a couple times a year since he was in another state, wouldn't rule out sex with him....that it would be the only way we'd stay together. "I could get another woman on the side too if I wanted", she told me. She was SO cold and callus when talking about all of this, I couldn't believe it. We were having sex then too, frequently. We got along well other than this issue but I kept asking myself 'where is her anger? where are her feelings for this marriage? where is her heart?' Being hurt and not wanting to lose her, I agreed somewhat. That seemed start a run of great sex between us. She was acting SO happy around the house, like nothing was happening, like everything was fine......but still emotionally numb to me. I couldn't believe she was acting so 'normal' while at the same time I was devastated inside. This happened through Christmas.
New Years Day: We had sex all day, like never before.....It looked like 2010 was going to be a fantastic year as long as she got what she wanted, the open marriage.....she was happier than I'd seen her in a long time, we seemed to be doing really well in most respects - except that I couldn't deal with the open marriage thing, so I changed my mind back and forth from yes to no to not sure, etc.
Soon after that, January sometime - told me she figured out she didn't love him, and it wasn't worth destroying the family over. That she thought she did at the time but was wrong. I was working on myself, us, but was hurting so much I couldn't think. He's gay (yeah, really) so it wouldn't have happened anyway, or maybe it would have.....don't know - which makes this whole thing confusing. She works on his website, so they're in contact even today, she says he's now just a good friend who talked to her and gave advice...helped her through the worst times, and when she needed to talk the most, etc. when I wasn't there for her. I consider him just her 'gay friend' now, no indication otherwise that I can tell.
Since her crush on him has fizzed out, the last couple of months, intimacy and sex between us have pretty much stopped....it happened RIGHT after my series of breakdowns, begging sessions, crying, etc. and looking back I believe that's why her sexual attraction for me dropped like a rock.......BUT other things have calmed down and changed; we get along very well and talk quite a bit, we listen to each other, look into each others eyes a lot, kisses here and there, hugs, etc. some flirting....and I've been following the advice told to me: Be the best husband and person you can be, be attractive, be the man she can't leave, etc. etc. and it 'seems' to slowly be making a difference....sometimes it doesn't seem like it's working, but then suddenly she'll say or do something that seems like it is. She's stopped drinking too, and our household is healthy and fit...quiet and calm. Nice.
Weeks ago I mentioned something.....jokingly.... 'in hindsight i should have taken that open marriage thing you mentioned, at least we were having awesome sex haha' and she replied 'well that's not what i want anymore, since i quit drinking i'm just sort of...boring ha'
Our LAST argument, a month ago I think, was caused by me bringing up and trying to discuss our marriage, probably prematurely, and it made her SO mad...she told be she had a lot of anger against me and I know she's been working on that issue since. She's not nearly as angry as she was before, but when I try to initiate sex or intimacy she gets mad. She hardens up like stone. ?
Since last summer I've made leaps and bounds as a man, a parent, a husband....a person. I trust, I don't spy on her anymore. I'm patient, which I never was in the past. I'm supportive and considerate, affectionate and loving without smothering her. I'm laid back, cool as hell. I listen to her when she talks, I don't control or offer advice. I'm calm, fit, muscular and in shape like never before. I'm not even the same human being it seems . SOOOOOO, last week she sent me an email reminder 'don't forget to pick up ___, have a super day - i love you!!!' A day before that I walked in and she complimented me and the shirt I was wearing....the look in her eyes was amazing and she gave me a super squeeze hug I haven't felt in a long time. A few days ago - a great hug, extra sqeeze. So see? Little things are popping up again.
I read somewhere that she might be 'grieving' from the loss of the EA? Does that make sense? I don't know.
I think sometimes too, that her whole 'be with the other guy thing' didn't work out....she hasn't left yet, and I've changed completely instead of staying a drunken a-hole....which probably has gone against her original plans of leaving me. It's made it difficult to hate me, difficult to leave. I don't know. Is she using me until she gets a job, and then she'll leave me? I don't know. All I can do now is have faith I guess and keep doing what I'm doing.
Thanks all for listening, ready, and any advice is appreciated beyond belief!
Only time will tell. Once a woman loses her attraction for her H, IMHO, it just takes time to get that back......if your truly "are" an amazing man. The key is to continue to improve. I think it is wonderful that both of you quit drinking.
If she is bouncing back and forth in an EA, then she probably won't be attracted to you. Now, some WAW's continue to have sex but it isn't b/c they want the H. From what you have said, I doubt that your W will warm up to you if she is desiring OM.
How do you know that the OM is gay? Does she have that information? I'm thinking that is weird for her to be turned on by a gay person. Maybe he's bisexual? Maybe she thinks she can "change" him into wanting females? Maybe the fact that he doesn't want "her" is what is so appealing? Who knows.
You have to admit that you were not acting very sexy at all when you were do all the begging, etc. But, what I wonder is why you would even consider an open M, and what will you do if she suggests it again?
Why did you stop spying on her? Did you not want to know what was really going on or was it b/c you couldn't handle knowing? I don't think it is healthy, but I do think a S needs to know for sure if there is an EA/PA.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
