I know that. The trouble is, Coach, Rob, possibly yourself and a few others don't seem to feel that way.
Bro you need to stop mind reading and honestly you don't know how any one feels so please stop with the assumptions.
I wasn't mindreading. You use that term too much. "Mindreading" is "reading the mind". Not doing that. I'm "stating the obvious"
Originally Posted By: robx
We didn't ask or force you to "subordinate" or to bow to our will or any other such nonsense, . . .
No you didn't ask me to do that. You simply began making insulting remarks and negative character assessments and such when I didn't subordinate.
Originally Posted By: robx
. . . advice was offered, given freely, no one is forced to take it.
I know that.
Originally Posted By: robx
You told us to stop, I respected that request and apparently a few others did as well.
You most certainly did NOT 'respect' that request. When I asked you to stop, you began the insulting crap.
Originally Posted By: robx
You continue to harp on this along with some childish insults on this and apparently one or two other threads on this forum and it's getting old so just let it go already.
I'd suggest you let it go. You keep claiming you will . . . then ya don't.
Originally Posted By: robx
I promise to stop posting advice on your thread or to comment on your situation on this or any other thread.
That would be good
Originally Posted By: robx
I'm sorry for bothering you or commenting on your thread.
Accepted.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
Well, I wasn't gonna post this, but what the heck . . .
So far, things seem to be going better. My wife finally did mention the article I gave her. I was wondering why she wasn't talking to her friend nearly as much lately, and it turns out it was because of the article.
She brought it up while we were sitting in the yard about a week or so ago, kind of enjoying each others company. She just blurted it out. She just said that "That paper you gave me was right you know" I asked what she was talking about, even though I pretty much knew.
After she read it, she kinda "tested" her friends (I didn't even ask what that meant . . .or what the "plural" meant, since I was only aware of one)
I kinda defended them a little, saying something like "Hey, they're just trying to support what they think ya want"
And she said "not really" (Not sure what that meant either) But she did snuggle a little closer when she said it, so I'm taking it as a good thing. She's been much better to be around, and has been more supportive instead of 'nagging' is the best way I can describe it. Hopefully, things are getting better, and I'm praying it sticks.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
Well, interesting you find it "entertaining." I assume you are implying I'm either lying or trying to say that this single action "saved" my marriage. Neither is accurate. If I'm reading this incorrectly, please, clarify.
I'll humor and 'entertain' you for a minute for other folks sake. By no means do I feel like 'the article' was the sole action that 'saved' my marriage. For one thing, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not "out of the woods" just yet, at least as far as I know. The relative quickness of this "turnaround" is not lost on me.
Right now, I kinda think a number of 'actions' came into play. For one thing, my prior knowledge of this site from 2001-2002, and my having read Michelle's first book, and some of what I retained from it. Being somewhat aware and getting a handle on it quickly was certainly beneficial, in my opinion, anyway. Only time will really tell.
Prior to my being aware of divorce busting in my last marriage, for months I did a LOT of things wrong and screwed things up pretty good before I started doing this stuff. Not so this time.
And again, I don't consider myself "out of the woods" yet. But I do feel like getting proactive quickly saved me a lot of heartache, and right now, it seems like she really has rethought her desire to split up. Again as you so astutely pointed out, not a lot of time has passed. Less that even your sarcastic 'yea, right' implication, actually.
Have any of you naysayers even read the article in question? While I doubt some of you will cop to it . . . I doubt you did. For one thing, I only gave her the part about talking to friends.Nobody bothered to ask about that before authoritatively, and often rudely telling me what a Putz I was for even considering such an action. They were wrong . . . and too damned bad. Implying I'm full of crap or that I think this one action "saved my marriage" doesn't alter this reality.
Further, this might not even work in all situations. Unlike some of the sanctimonious twits here, I'm not gonna pass judment on what will work and what won't for different people.
My wife and I don't argue all that much, particularly heated arguments. So in my situation, I feel like even if she might have been a little annoyed at first, giving her some perspective on what her friends were saying might be a tiny step back now for a bigger gain in the long run. I feel like I was dead on with that line of reason, in my situation.
Frankly, I don't even know for sure it annoyed her at all. For the sake of this thread, I'm gonna assume it did though. But . . . she clearly "got over it."
I'll also point out that it wasn't like I "broke her down" and she said "I was right, and she was wrong, and that Bummed is an exalted high-thinker, ALL HAIL BUMMED!"
No . . . . she said I was right about the article, and more correctly, even though she said "You [me] were right" . . . I infer she meant the article was accurate, and she ended up seeing it.
I'm not sure why ya'll are so "entertained" by my problem and my attempts to solve them. I take it quite seriously, and find nothing "entertaining" about it. Maybe this is "entertaining" to pompous, quasi-expert blowhards who consider themselves "The Exalted High-Thinkers" of this forum. Who knows, after all, I'm just a Cabinetmaker, and your exalted high thoughts amaze and strike fear in me . . .lol.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
By no means do I feel like 'the article' was the sole action that 'saved' my marriage. For one thing, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not "out of the woods" just yet, at least as far as I know. The relative quickness of this "turnaround" is not lost on me.
It's good that you realize this. As you already know, they can change their minds at the drop of a hat.
Like you said, you've been through this before, you know what to expect and what you need to do.
If your W was receptive to the article, then great! If you really spend some time reading a variety of situations you will sort of see a trend that *most* WAS's are not receptive to books, articles or websites. If your W was then it was a gamble worth taking.
IMO the most beneficial and profound realizations come from within and not a third party pointing it out. If it worked out another way for you and your W, or, gave you a new starting point to work on the R in a new way then I don't get why you are so angry.
You said your W seems more open to you at this time. What will you do to keep this positive momentum going? What do you plan to work on for you and in the R? How do you think you will handle it (even if just to yourself) when your W spends time with her friends? I don't feel those are unreasonable questions to ponder.
I agree this slight turnaround happened quickly. So, just to prepare yourself you might want to expect a bit of a pullback on her part.
All we can ALL do is learn from our mistakes and do our best not to repeat them. If you are doing that, then wonderful! If your situation is in the minority that certain gestures panned out how you hoped (ex. giving her an article) then be pleased, not angry!
Thanks IDU, Yea, with my Ex, pretty much EVERY time she "got temporarily nice" it meant the sword of Damocles was about to swing in the very near future.
CG, I'm not mean to everyone. I'm 'mean' to a few people . . .who are generally rather mean and judgmental, who don't like their unsolicited, rudely proffered opinions to be questioned or dismissed by newcomers.
As for what I plan on doing . . . I'm doing it. I'm looking for work, just like I have been, I'm just talkng about it a little more and doing it while she's around, and it seems to help.
As for 'changing' myself, I'm not really focused on that at all. Not that I'm perfect, but, and I don't care if this sounds conceited or not, I'm a pretty good guy. I wasn't taking her for granted. I'm respectful of her opinions and thoughts. I do my fair share of chores, at least I think I do, and since I'm not working regularly, I do almost all the laundry, vacuuming, etc.
I'm sorry if this simply doesn't fit in with what folks want around here . . .which seems essentially to attempt to get me to 'blame myself' for her having second thoughts. Like I've said from the very beginning, and nothing I've seen, here or in my relationship, leads me to believe it really is a problem with something I'm doing wrong or not doing 'right'.
I really do feel that pressures on her that are really outside of my control were being transferred/redirected at me. Frankly, I find it odd that this is such a difficult concept for many here to understand.
It's like it never occurs to folks that maybe it isn't my fault. After all "Bummed won't listen to our unsolicited and unwanted advice and character assessment on issues he never even raised and made clear he wasn't ready to discuss. How dare he! And to actually tell us! Mind our own business? The Audacity!!"
You aren't nearly as Rude as pompous blowhards like RobX and "Coach" but you do seem to be assuming I have things about myself I need to change in order to save my marriage. By default, that is an "It takes two people to destroy a marriage" mindset. No it doesn't, for the record. I watched my best friend quite single-handedly destroy his own marriage, it happens.
Basically, the only "change" I'm really making other than being more open in my job seeking activities is that on some issues, like her daughter and her parents, I'm simply staying out of. She clearly doesn't follow the advice, and as I've learned here quite well, advice that isn't wanted can really annoy people.
At least I have the excuse of "being right there" to see the actual situation. Oh well.
As for the article, and that "most" people have found that WAS are not receptive to books, articles or websites being forced on them. I concur. Particularly if one bites off too much with the suggested material. The article exerpt I handed her wasn't so much about "saving" anything, it was about being careful with advice on an issue like this from friends. And I didn't force it on her. I didn't bug her . . .not even a little, to see if she read it. I didn't quiz her. I just let it ride.
It was also a short read, which is pretty important, in my estimation. Handing someone who probably has little interest in "saving" anything a book or a droning 12 page letter isn't gonna help, been there too.
Unfortunately, Citygirl, NOBODY seems to have even a remote interest in discussing . . .well . . .the original topic of the thread. And that is to the detriment of all of us. It clearly upsets some folks that I didn't completely bungle this . .at least not yet.
Nope, all most folks here want to do is denigrate me, tell me what a control freak I am, talk about how 'mean' I am for not cowtoeing to the board gurus, etc.
I'm getting "Froze out" by these morons, on a topic that really should be discussed in more depth. It's sad that this threads topic is considered far less important or worthy of discussion than the discussion of what an alleged putz I am or cutting me out of the clique, here.
All this being said, I do appreciate the few of you who aren't so petty as to participate in the "freeze out", really. And Citygirl, while I know you feel similar to the way RobX and Coach do about me. . .at least you aren't pompous and arrogant in your presentation. Thanks for that.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
I am unsure what freezeout you are referring to. Prior to yesterday I had been off the boards for a few days battling a wicked case of bronchitis and only saw your update on Wed.
What I think is what I post. It seems you have ill feelings towards certain posters. Those are your feelings to have but lumping everybody together doesn't seem quite fair.
You may not see it but you do come across as terribly defensive. You and I don't seem to agree on much or share the same outlook but I don't feel I am attacking you. I am simply sharing my differing opinion.
While I understand you feel the main issue you wanted to discuss (friends and spouses) was not addressed to your satisfaction it seems you have not accepted that perhaps the majority of people feel it's best to not make an issue out of it. I can think of at least 10 reasons why *I* don't feel it's a good idea to bring it up to a spouse who wants out. That is not to say you are wrong or I am right. To me it's a mere difference of opinion and arguing about it (IMO) blocks the exchange of ideas (even if they do vastly differ).
Making changes can be about small shifts in the way you communicate verbally or through body language. It can be about anything really and doesn't always have to be some grand sweeping "thing". You said you are being more open about your job search and in turn, you are sensing your W appreciates that. Well, that is a change. It's nothing huge by any means but it is a small shift in behavior that is bringing more positivity to your R at this time.
As I said in an earlier post the experience I have had with my H for the past 28 months has been the most humbling (and painful) of my life. I don't see any room for arguing over who is more "right". I do think there are certain trends that most WAS seem to follow and that is why I personally subscribe to the belief that sometimes "doing nothing" is best when you are dealing w/a spouse staunch in their stance they want out. I don't believe that because somebody told me to. I believe it because I lived it for two years.
What I would gently suggest to you is to dedicate yourself to making "small shifts" that create positive momentum. Self evaluation doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with you, it means you have a desire to keep growing and improving as a person. I don't know a person in the world that can't benefit from self evaluation and self improvement.
