Hey Future... have you been watching the news about Bill 3890 and Bill 7740?
Bill 3890 will eliminate NY as a fault state AND abolish the legal separation process! In addition, specific guidelines and a set formula (I believe 40%) will be set for spousal support instead of mere criteria and will be awarded to the spouse who makes less money.
Bill 7740 will automatically award the spouse who makes less money full legal fees paid for by the higher earning spouse.
I think the next vote is Monday! I doubt it will pass but ya never know!
First of all, no need to apologize, Future -- it's why I'm here (to share my own experiences, good and bad, in the hopes of helping others).
My first, gut answer is "you don't." You DON'T fully get past it -- ever -- I don't think. It remains not a wound, but now a SCAR, and like bodily scars, it can be simultaneously a reminder of a wound, the reckless behavior (by both of us) that caused it, and also a symbol of healed flesh.
Secondly, I would say that our reconciliation was dependent almost ENTIRELY on me, at least at first. After my wife's affair, she felt foolish, guilty, blamed and shamed, and she was a mess. She didn't really have much to give me, and told me so. The physical affection helped, but then also was THE biggest "trigger" for me of what she had done, so it was ALL tough. Eventually, she started giving more, or at least TRYING to, but she's still a fairly self-centered person, emotionally, and I pretty much have to self-soothe in that department.
As for trust, that only came with transparency. I STILL check the cellphone records from time to time, and I still get a knot in my stomach if there's a text(s) on her phone to a male and the contents are deleted. Every tunnel I've taken the time to check out more fully, however, has been cheeseless, infidelity-wise, and so -- over time -- I guess trust has slowly built up in that I realize that it's now been three full years without a re-conflagration of the affair, either with OM or with some OM2.
As horrible as affairs are (and I think that unless you've been betrayed, you cannot even really IMAGINE the wound or the pain), I think an affair-following-a-longterm-SSM is its own special kind of Hell. And though I know it isn't what you want to hear, I'm not altogether sure that I have ever figured out how to fully deal with my pain and my wound.
Puppy
Thanks Puppy, I appreciate your generosity, and your candor. I've never been so nervous about the response to a post here. Even when I saw you responded, I hesitated to read it.
Your response is almost exactly what I expected, and is what I expect even in the best case. My W is also self centered emotionally, and although I can envision her trying to be a better W, kinder, gentler, less reactive, more giving, and more accommodating of my needs, in the end it will be on ME to heal.
She cannot somehow erase what she's done. I know that and she knows that, so me expecting any kind of continual demonstrations of remorse from her is unrealistic and cheeseless in its own way. I know I will have to recognize that demonstrations of hurt ego from me will only make me look weak and unattractive. If we decide to reconcile, and if she can convince me that she's sincere, that I'm not her Plan B, then I have to take that at face value and try to move forward.
Although my M was not a severe SSM, it definitely fit that description, especially for the last five years. Now I too am in a special kind of Hell, for sure. Perhaps the 7 year number v1olin refers to is true, and eventually our pain and wound will fade into memory, replaced by years of good marriage.
Although I don't know this, I swear my W is on the other side of this same dilemma, wondering if true healing and trust could ever be possible. She sure seems to want something from me.
Last night my W came by to drop something for the kids, and as soon as she came in, I could tell she was off. I asked her how she was, and she said "Depressed". When I asked why, she said "Just one of those days." Her whole demeanor smacked of "Withdrawal from OM", so I reactively threw my walls back up fully, left her with the kids and sat on the other side of the room. Not pouting or anything, just removed myself from the situation. After a bit she looked over at me and kindly said "Just because I'm depressed doesn't mean you have to be." I said "I'm not depressed, I'm fine." She could tell my wall was back up. After being with the kids for a few minutes she abruptly left.
This morning when I dropped my daughter off, she was kind, but sad. I was back to full walls, and I quickly said goodbye to my daughter and went to leave. W stopped me and asked a simple question about the health insurance cards for the kids, something that could have easily been handled in a text message or e-mail. I answered her question, but she looked so much like she wanted something else, so I said "Are you ok?" She said no, and she described various physical ailments she's suffering from, then she said "I wanted you to know that's why I was depressed last night... I'm tired of dealing with all this". She said "And I'm lonely. It's hard coming home to a silent house after a long day of work." I smiled and said "Well, you've got a whole gang of maniacs coming over today (our kids)." She smiled back and said "So how are you?" She keeps asking me this, every time I see her! What does she want from me?! I said I was fine, but that I'm a little stressed about work and the house. I talked about my work, and she stood there looking at me, riveted by my words the way a woman does when she's trying to stroke your ego. I looked at her, and into her eyes. If she's faking, she's damn good at it. She looked at me with so much love and hurt. I hestitated, then I reached out and gave her a hug. She grabbed me and said softly "Thanks." Then I left.
What am I supposed to do with all this? We have a court date in two weeks. She's suing me to take the kids from me. What the hell is going on?
Future, I've been following your sitch. I'm sorry for what you are going through. For what it's worth I wanted to let you know that I think you're doing a good job and to give you my support.
Stay strong. I know your upcoming court date is on your mind and I can certainly understand why. Don't let a court date take you off your path. It's only a step in the process. I think you and your W have a chance. Keep doing what you're doing.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. It could mean the ability to parent amicably together, or a possible friendship in the future. Trust is different to forgiveness ... it certainly takes time and work on the part of one who committed the offense (the affair in this case). Your WAW does not seem to be the type who would want to put in the effort ... perhaps, at first, but I think it may peter out, but that's just my impression of her, through you.
Thinking of ya!
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
try to compartmentalize to get through the court date. be an observer as much as you can. watch her and see what she says and does. if she says nasty things about you in court, future, that's going to be tough. is she trying to put the last nail in the coffin or is she trying to see if there is still any life in there? agree with puppy...she is very conflicted. just stay your course. a divorce doesn't mean its over forever, but might be a necessary part of the process...
Future, I've been following your sitch. I'm sorry for what you are going through. For what it's worth I wanted to let you know that I think you're doing a good job and to give you my support.
Stay strong. I know your upcoming court date is on your mind and I can certainly understand why. Don't let a court date take you off your path. It's only a step in the process. I think you and your W have a chance. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks mza8-
Welcome to my thread. Sometimes I feel like I'm on "The Truman Show". I have followed your thread too. I think you are getting good advice from the vets here.
I guess I've never quite given up that we have a chance to save our M, but it sure has been a roller coaster. I'm managing to stay pretty detached. I am going to stay on my path, and I will not back down regarding the custody. If she wants to drag it into court, so be it. She won't win.
Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. It could mean the ability to parent amicably together, or a possible friendship in the future. Trust is different to forgiveness ... it certainly takes time and work on the part of one who committed the offense (the affair in this case). Your WAW does not seem to be the type who would want to put in the effort ... perhaps, at first, but I think it may peter out, but that's just my impression of her, through you.
Thinking of ya!
Thanks for hangin' in here BeingMe.
I am similarly skeptical about her ability to put in the effort. I have to admit though, she has consistently been kind to me, for a year now. Other than suing me of course! LOL! This lawsuit thing is so weird, I just don't get it. She sees how I am with the kids, I can't believe she really wants to take them from me. She sent me a proposed schedule where I would get the kids two evenings per week, and every other weekend. Sorry, not gonna happen. She also said she'd be agreeable to me having them more in the summers, provided I don't put them in the care of a babysitter, or stepmom. Wow!
During our recent time together, she has slid in casual questions about whether I've thought about moving to a new house, and also about a possible trip to Disney World. I feel like I'm involved in some secret interview process or something.
I keep thinking back to what she said back in January during our contentious separation discussion. She said, in reference to her A, "You'll always hold it over me!" Then a couple weeks ago during our talk she said "I've realized I'm not afraid of you any more." I was surprised, and I asked her why she was afraid of me and she said "I don't know", but I know, she was afraid of retribution because of her A. She said she was shocked that I didn't react to her lawsuit with some sort of counter attack. She said it made her believe she could be with me again. That is exactly counter to what is often the case, that only when faced with a strong legal threat do they express hollow desire for reconciliation.
Appears to me she has a secret deep seated guilt over what she did. She's looking for sort of indication from me that I can forgive her and ease that guilt. She wants us to be "right" with each other, but she stubbornly won't give me what I need, a clear declaration of remorse. I keep going back and forth as to whether I should require that declaration up front, or trust that it will come as she re-attaches to me, and feels safe with me.
I appreciate that you realize your impression of her is through me. I write a lot of words here, but it's not the same as seeing her and talking with her. I wonder what you all would think if you could be a fly on the wall and see and hear for yourself. Would you think "Wow, she is a master manipulator", or would you think "She is being open and honest with Future"?
I assume by "melty man" you mean saying things like "I've missed you", "it's so wonderful to hold you again", "I love you so much", "don't worry, we can work all this out", etc, etc?
Last year I was always battling that tendancy, but now it's just not there. I don't have to hold it back. She's going to have to earn it.
try to compartmentalize to get through the court date. be an observer as much as you can. watch her and see what she says and does. if she says nasty things about you in court, future, that's going to be tough. is she trying to put the last nail in the coffin or is she trying to see if there is still any life in there? agree with puppy...she is very conflicted. just stay your course. a divorce doesn't mean its over forever, but might be a necessary part of the process...
I think I'm in a good place to do exactly what you say. I won't be reactive, and I have no idea what she's going to say. Sure doesn't seem to me she's putting nails in the coffin. In fact, I feel like she has the pry bar, and is pulling out the nails she's already put in!
I agree that separation or divorce very well might necessary at this point. I can't live in this legal limbo forever.
