H just felt the need for us to have a "talk". I should have known it was coming from all I have read here in similar sitches. He now claims that he likely never was in L with me. Yep, he's decided to rewrite history! I just sat there and calmly listened. He was very uneasy that I was not falling apart and kept saying he wasn't sure I really was hearing him. So I reframed what he said and made it clear that I knew exactly what he was trying to tell me (mostly so he wouldn't make me hear it again!!!). He wanted a response after all of that, so I just told him that it didn't really matter how we got "here" or how long we have been "here", the only question is what are we going to do about it. This is where we're at right now, this is what we have to deal with and I don't care to sit up all night and try to talk about the past. He actually seemed relieved at that.
He also brought up my birthday and said he owed me a night out since he missed my birthday being out of town. He asked what I wanted to do. I told him that if he felt that he wanted to do something for my birthday then I would be happy to enjoy it, but that I would rather have nothing than something he felt compelled to do out of guilt or ceremony. I also told him that I had already planned my own birthday with the boys (which he gets all the credit for!! - I didn't mention that part to him) and I didn't want to have to plan my own evening with him. If it is a gift from him, then he should do the planning. We'll see what happens.
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So.. progress?
I would have said, yes...progress!, until this very depressing chat with H. I feel that I will give myself a pat on the back for some progress. But, detachment to where this didn't REALLY hurt, nope, not there.
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Had some fun.. H tagged along.. Blah.
Had some fun without H. He was out of town. Not blah, my kids were amazing to me! They don't even call me the (old) Queen when they are playing castles and knights, I am their PRINCESS! They rock!
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You strike me as someone who.. has the means. Not once have you mentioned money in all this. There are tons of options for "internet ready" devices. Netbooks, Ipads.
This part made me laugh out loud. Not that you could know, but we have very little $. H is in graduate school and went down to part-time in his IT job and we are both very against living outside our means. We are very frugal and budget very carefully. This is something that we both agree about and have NEVER fought about $. We've been on the same page since day 1. We don't prohibit each other from buying anything, no permission needed or anything like that. We're just both very reserved about spending. H balances the checkbook and I pay the bills, there are no secrets, we're both online in the account several times a month checking on things. If there is an OW, he's not spending any of our $ on her! Every $1 is accounted for. I also don't have a high paying job, I chose a career to help people in crisis, I am not in it for the meager pay check. We have always laughed that no one has any idea how little we live on, funny that you got that impression too.
I wanna start by saying that I have been "spinning" your stitch a lot. I really think you have a solid chance here. Maybe I have more hope than you.. still don't quite know why you seem to be on the top of my thought list these days.
"would have said, yes...progress!, until this very depressing chat with H. I feel that I will give myself a pat on the back for some progress. But, detachment to where this didn't REALLY hurt, nope, not there."
I don't expect you to be detached from this situation.. for at least a month or two. The idea is to define what "feeds" you. I have some other ideas to expand our "learning experience" but right now I want you to concentrate on building on these little things. You come first right now. I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to "quickly" remove your mind from the situation. You cannot control where "this" is gonna take you. By being "fresh" (rested,"fed") you allow yourself to see opportunities to redirect things. If you react to a situation in an "Emotional" state most of the time you "feed" into the WAS's idea that they are right.. and you will never change.
I have often used the "GPS" idea. You know the little things you stick on the windshield that tell how to get somewhere. Well if you use them enough you understand that they don't always pick the best way.. or the fastest way. So.. you find yourself at a stop sign.. and it is telling you to go right. You know that left is the better route. So you turn left. It keeps telling you "turn around.. make a u turn". After a while.. it has to "recalculate".
Getting your WAS to "recalculate" to me is the general idea you need to create. Lets be clear.. it worked for them. With the words "I am out" you started "recalculating" everything. If you get stuck "recalculating" you will never go anywhere. You will wander around aimlessly cause you have no directions.
Imagine for a second if that GPS threw out every "path" it came across while it was "recalculating". Turn here, go left, back up, straight. You would think it was broke and most likely take it back to the store to get your money back. You would certainly want to end your "relationship" with it!
Don't be a "broke" GPS. "Recalculate" quietly.. find the best path.
"Had some fun without H. He was out of town. Not blah, my kids were amazing to me! They don't even call me the (old) Queen when they are playing castles and knights, I am their PRINCESS! They rock!"
Somewhere in there I missed your H did not attend. For some reason I thought you had a card for you from your H and he attended with the boys. I will have to re-read that. See where I screwed up.
"This is something that we both agree about and have NEVER fought about $. We've been on the same page since day 1. We don't prohibit each other from buying anything, no permission needed or anything like that. We're just both very reserved about spending. H balances the checkbook and I pay the bills, there are no secrets, we're both online in the account several times a month checking on things."
Honestly.. this is fantastic. Money can now be ruled out as having any effect on this M.
"He was very uneasy that I was not falling apart and kept saying he wasn't sure I really was hearing him. So I reframed what he said and made it clear that I knew exactly what he was trying to tell me (mostly so he wouldn't make me hear it again!!!). He wanted a response after all of that."
"I just told him that it didn't really matter how we got "here" or how long we have been "here", the only question is what are we going to do about it. This is where we're at right now, this is what we have to deal with and I don't care to sit up all night and try to talk about the past. He actually seemed relieved at that."
That seems like some solid stuff. Very good. If you stated it to him as well as you did here.. bravo! Maybe you should have asked him if he understood what you were saying.
"If it is a gift from him, then he should do the planning. We'll see what happens."
Don't expect anything. Again.. very good. I am impressed.
Keep doing the small things.. at least for a few more days. I want you to take it up a small notch. Don't focus on people at work. Focus on more "random" people. The clerk at the convince store.. the person taking your order.. the person bagging your groceries. Again.. this is to test what you "Love". See if you get more "happiness" from the more random people. It does not have to be 6.. it can be more.. it can be less. Again the idea is for you to monitor what "feeds" you. You are so "reserved".. or clouded in your posts.. it gets hard to "see" anything.
"He now claims that he likely never was in L with me. Yep, he's decided to rewrite history!"
You have to know.. from everything you do in RL.. that when people are "done" they are "done". What still has him "recalculating"? He is a big boy.. he can leave any time he wants. Why is he still "there".. creating "drama"? Can you see why I really harp on getting you "Ready"?
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I really think you have a solid chance here. Maybe I have more hope than you.. still don't quite know why you seem to be on the top of my thought list these days.
I wish I could feel more hopeful. I really appreciate your time and energy.
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Imagine for a second if that GPS threw out every "path" it came across while it was "recalculating". Turn here, go left, back up, straight. You would think it was broke and most likely take it back to the store to get your money back. You would certainly want to end your "relationship" with it!
I know I have been doing some of this type of thing. I've been reading so much lately that I've been letting some of the strategies get me twisted up.
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Somewhere in there I missed your H did not attend. For some reason I thought you had a card for you from your H and he attended with the boys.
I looked back at that myself. It was poorly written. It was an emotional night for me flopping between how I felt about H and how the boys were so proud/happy/fun to be with.
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Maybe you should have asked him if he understood what you were saying.
That would have been GREAT! Wish I had thought of it. I was really just trying to get out of the convo as quickly as possible. Yesterday I had lunch with a co-worker who was telling my how her H has started telling her he loves her all the time as a way to "build her up". She said it's hard to explain how hearing such positive words all the time can change you. I sat there in quiet misery thinking that it equally sucks to have to hear the opposite! It really feels like he's tearing me down by his need to keep reminding me that he still feels a lack of romance and doesn't think he wants to remain in this M. My cheerfulness seems to make him think he needs to keep reminding me that we have a BIG problem, as if I could forget!
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What still has him "recalculating"? He is a big boy.. he can leave any time he wants. Why is he still "there".. creating "drama"? Can you see why I really harp on getting you "Ready"?
H would answer this easily with "S8 and S5". This question has been roaming around in my mind for a few weeks now. He can go sleep on the sofa, but he hasn't. He can work more out of the house, but he doesn't. He calls and e-mails me a few times a day. He likes to share stories about his day and talk things out that he's working on with me. He says we don't have anything in common and he doesn't feel a deep connection to me, but yet he's not acting like I annoy the snot out of him He doesn't avoid me.
There is one thing he keeps bringing up that has been on my mind. The night he pulled the rug out from under me (and I knew nothing about Dbing) through the tears, freaking out, and sickness, one thing I said has stood out to him. I told him that "love" is a verb. He has brought this back up several times since and is stating that it's one more way that we are so different, we don't even see love the same way. He seems to describe this "love" that is a noun that falls upon you when you meet the right person. Apparently to him I am not that person because he doesn't feel that "thing" upon him. I asked him if he has ever felt that before, with anyone. He said he didn't know/wasn't sure but was surprised by my question because when he tried to talk the same thing out with his IC she asked him the same Q.
We did have some fun last night. H noticed I had bought some margarita mix earlier in the week, so he picked up a small bottle of tequila (we rarely drink) so we could watch a movie and celebrate Cinco de Mayo. We even stayed up a while afterword chatting and he laughed a good bit. So, I expect him to be a grump tonight....that's how the roller coaster has gone so far.
maybe I should have told him I wanted a laptop for my BD
It is a choice. You have no hope because you are listening to what he is saying. He took "control" of the situation with his words. You just have to understand that you "control" where you go with this. If he wants to go.. let him. If he wants to file for D.. let him. You have to "define" what is acceptable.. and healthy for you. If he steps over that line.. then you act. Just because he "leaves" or files does not mean that is the end. To be honest.. the M you had is over. This can be a good or bad thing.. it just depends on how you look at it.
"I know I have been doing some of this type of thing. I've been reading so much lately that I've been letting some of the strategies get me twisted up."
Too much of a good thing can be bad? I agree. Keep it simple. There is no quick cure.. easy fix.. etc. Focus on the small things. Learn what they mean to you. Build on that.
To be honest there are only 2 ways to "win". You "Act as if" or you "LRT" it. Both are effective. Both have the same chance of "success".
"My cheerfulness seems to make him think he needs to keep reminding me that we have a BIG problem, as if I could forget!"
Well.. because you are not acting the way he expected you to act. My wife told me that when she dropped the bomb.. she expected me just to say "OK" and we would just get D. She never expected me to buck the system. If you look at it your "cheerfulness" is working. Expect that he is gonna react to you.. and what you do. Again.. like drunk people wanting you to drink.. the more you refuse.. the more they hound you. They want you to share in the "fun". Bet if you showed up drunk with a bottle the next morning when they woke up and started hounding them to drink it would be a different story. (Some people maybe not..LOL) Don't look at the big picture.. Don't look at the future. Focus on the here and now.. and the small things. No matter how insignificant they seem. If you are unsure if something worked.. test it.
"H would answer this easily with "S8 and S5"."
I don't want your assumption.. I don't want what he is saying. I don't want your assumptions.. because.. well you have been wrong more than you have been right. Otherwise.. you would not be "here". I don't want what he is saying.. cause I do not believe anything that a WAS says. None of it!
"This question has been roaming around in my mind for a few weeks now."
This is what I call your "Little Voice". Listen to it.. it is talking to you for a reason.
"He likes to share stories about his day and talk things out that he's working on with me. He says we don't have anything in common and he doesn't feel a deep connection to me, but yet he's not acting like I annoy the snot out of him He doesn't avoid me."
Maybe.. he thinks you are just not "fun"? Simple fact.. he has not left yet. If he was done.. he would be done. To me he is actually responding to your LL's right now. If you don't know what to do.. you go with what you know. His complaint is the "deep connection". Next conversation you have.. see if you can get him to "define" that. I would like to hear his words on that. Try and remember what he says.. word for word.
"He seems to describe this "love" that is a noun that falls upon you when you meet the right person."
"I asked him if he has ever felt that before, with anyone. He said he didn't know/wasn't sure but was surprised by my question because when he tried to talk the same thing out with his IC she asked him the same Q."
With that definition of "Love" I am in some trouble with my wife. Cause I "Love" lots of random women. She will be so disappointed in me!
Really the first comment is just.. well garbage. It boils down to just another way of saying "I don't feel anything". It points out the confusion in his mind. From the two C's (You and his IC) question.. I would suspect this has more to do with his mental capacity. Can he "Love" seems to be the question you both were asking. You are getting into the depression.. and out of my "area".
"We did have some fun last night. H noticed I had bought some margarita mix earlier in the week, so he picked up a small bottle of tequila (we rarely drink) so we could watch a movie and celebrate Cinco de Mayo. We even stayed up a while afterword chatting and he laughed a good bit. So, I expect him to be a grump tonight....that's how the roller coaster has gone so far."
Try to stop expecting the worst. Try to stop projecting you are walking on "eggshells". At the end of the day.. he made you "smile". (We did have some fun last night. H noticed I had bought some margarita mix earlier in the week, so he picked up a small bottle of tequila (we rarely drink) so we could watch a movie and celebrate Cinco de Mayo.)
"maybe I should have told him I wanted a laptop for my BD."
A girl can dream!
Now..
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
S5 announced his 2 favorite songs today in the car when just he and I were on our way home for T-ball. "The doorbell song" (The White Stripes sing this with a chorus of "I'm thinkin about my doorbell, when ya gonna ring it, when ya gonna ring it..") and "the marching ants song" (Dave Matthews Band includes these lyrics "He wakes up in the morning, Does his teeth bite to eat and he's rolling, Never changes a thing, The week ends the week begins. She thinks, we look at each other Wondering what the other is thinking, But we never say a thing These crimes between us grow deeper.")
WOW! That about sums it up around here. I checked H's car stereo and sure enough White Strips CD. Mine is the DMB. Guess I need to keep working to try to ring that doorbell of H's! If I can find the right button maybe he'll let me back in!
His complaint is the "deep connection". Next conversation you have.. see if you can get him to "define" that. I would like to hear his words on that. Try and remember what he says.. word for word.
I will look into this at our next talk (which I am determined not to initiate).
You have given me a lot to think about, again. I will return and post more when I have more time. Crazy busy this weekend, but it's all fun. I have chosen to go with my H and boys to a college baseball game tomorrow for MY DAY. I've been wanting to do this for a while.
It's been a lot of days since I've been on here. A lot has happened, but not much progress on the R. We've been so busy bouncing from event to event. This is a very busy month for all 4 of us.
We finally got back to MC after a 3 week hiatus. H told the MC that I don't seem to want to work on M because every time he tries to bring up R for discussion I change the subject. I responded as honestly as possible that I don't feel the need to hear him remind me of his feelings. I want to know what we can do from here. This is really hard. At first I was just trying to DB, but I have really come to rely on being able to NOT dwell on what's wrong around here. Acting as if has helped me to seek out what's right and focus on the fun a little more. But, somehow H thinks I am not interested in working on things? What do you all make of this?
We also had a major setback last week. H fell asleep during the day and slept through picking up the kids from school. He called me out of a meeting over a hour after they were to be picked up to see if I could get them! I tried not to freak out, didn't say much, told him to call me back when he had them. When he called back I was very short with him and barely said any words to him when I got home or all through dinner. H later told me that he felt like I was kicking him while he was down! H gets the kids more than I do from school and he has never had any trouble being anywhere when needed. H made a mistake. He was freaking out when he originally called me and it would have been a great 180 to have been so loving and supportive and worried about H at that time, but the boys were abandoned at school for over an hour!!!! This has really set us back. H feels like such a failure and is tortured by the fact that I was not very supportive.
One other major thing happened last week. I got home to find a laptop waiting for me with an index card on top saying "Happy Belated Birthday"! It has really freaked me out because I mentioned on this site that I should have asked for one for my birthday to allow me better access to posting. H works in IT and has refurbished a laptop that was being fazed out at work. Just a creepy coincidence? Am I just paranoid since seeing all the posts about another LBS H getting on here? Is there a keylogger tracking me right now? I have no room in my emotions for paranoia. That would be way too exhausting! Maybe it doesn't even matter. This site has given me amazing support and perspective. H should be glad I am sharing things here and not with in our circles of folks in person.
Reeling, I am glad you are back. I am so new I don’t even know where to start. Your posting is very descriptive and I feel like paranoia take over us and does its best. If he wants to do this, you can let him, but make sure your side of the street is clean.
Carlota
M44,WAH54 DS11, DS15 mine S26, D21, D15 his married 2yrs Bomb 12/09 Still in same house, he still waffling Trying to not worry about him and focus on me
Sorry to hear that, I am in the same kind of boat as you, but my husband is not the father of my children and now they have all the defects possible, he picks on them and I. My H is in a bad mood and has issues with money. I so much relate in the fact that my H does not work on the relationship, he wants to have the big talk that I have postponed until I finish my finals (very soon). I want to be prepared and not fall apart. I think you meds are going to be your friends for a while, I have never taking any in the past but when my H told me he “loves me but he is not in love anymore” I could not handle it. The meds make you focus more, they don’t solve your problems, but they surety are very useful.
Carlota
M44,WAH54 DS11, DS15 mine S26, D21, D15 his married 2yrs Bomb 12/09 Still in same house, he still waffling Trying to not worry about him and focus on me
Don't be a "broke" GPS. "Recalculate" quietly.. find the best path.
This is pure gold! I am going to remember this forever
Originally Posted By: Reeling
There is one thing he keeps bringing up that has been on my mind. The night he pulled the rug out from under me (and I knew nothing about Dbing) through the tears, freaking out, and sickness, one thing I said has stood out to him. I told him that "love" is a verb. He has brought this back up several times since and is stating that it's one more way that we are so different, we don't even see love the same way. He seems to describe this "love" that is a noun that falls upon you when you meet the right person.
This could me my H and I .... in my early days I was trying to 'make' him understand that Love is a verb, and he just continued to insist that it's only a feeling and he can't control it in anyway. Well, we all know that's bullsh!t but I've learned my lesson ... telling him anything just means he gets more entrenched in his position. I'm now showing him, instead of telling him.
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
