WAH and LBW separated and dark

[Coach]

Doing a drive by.

Homework:

Google - Martin Seligman "Learned Optimism" explanatory styles

learn the difference between guilt and shame

Ask yourself, "What is this problem trying to teach me?"



Squash player - preppy from east coast?


Cheers

[LauraOh]

Goodgirl, I know you want to know if you put in the hard work, will you win back your H.

You should just know, no one here knows the answer to that.

But the majority would emphatically tell you, do it anyway. Do it for your peace of mind. Knowledge is SO POWERFUL. Getting to know your H, even now, more, is key to this.

Do the work and the next time you see your H, you will sense the difference. The better you are at working here on these things, the better the interaction will go.

And you are getting some really, really good advice here. I am really excited for you, because you are very open and receptive to it and they are willing to work closely with you.

[theGoodGirl]

Also, have you ever told his parents that this D is not something you want?

i haven't spoke to them since we dropped them off at the airport the day before the d-bomb was dropped.

i think they are the driving force behind it. they could care less if i wanted it or not. i think they want to hurt me for how i "mistreated" them over christmas.

but on the other hand, i don't know what my h told them.
many times, i wonder what he tells anybody. because his behaviour makes it look like he is the LBS.

normally, the LBS is angry for being left behind. the WAS usually just wants out and would say take whatever you want, i just want out. i don't care about the stuff .. just leave me with a mattress and i'm good.

but no. my h wants 75% of everything and he wants out. like wtf? and his parents are extremely disappointed in me for wanting what the law says i'm entitled to. is there something wrong with this picture?

they not only want the wedding money back. and h wants my engagement ring back. it's not an heirloom. it was a brand new ring. but why are they being so vindictive? because they thought i was mean to them at christmas? i didn't hit anybody. i didn't yell at anybody. i set boundaries on them. i minimized my conversations with my MIL when she treated me like i was a 6 yr old. and what? because they didn't like my boundaries, they want everything back?

the anger ate away at me for 4 months. i didn't put up a fight. i vented to friends and decided the lawyers would handle it. but tell anybody that they wanted the wedding money back, they just roll their eyes.

they had the gall to say that they felt they've given us so much over the year and have received so little in return. i found out later that his parents were the ones who suggested he ask for the wedding money back. because his father complained about how much money they dropped on our wedding. they paid their relatives to attend our wedding. they willingly paid for their flights, hotel, meals, and transportation. why should i be responsible to pay them back for it? i am not the one who is asking for the d. it's THEIR son.

since when did gifts have strings attached to them? had i known this, i wouldn't have accepted anything from them. to assumed it came from the heart. what did they want back? money?

do you think h told them that i wanted out? i got along with them at christmas right up until the day they left. h didn't tell them how much he hurt me.

h said they felt unwelcomed and were afraid of me.
i'm not a threatening person. as i said in a previous post that it doesn't matter how much of a pain they are, i still show some level of respect.

i didn't put up a fight because then i would have been begging, pleading, and crying. and i didn't want to do that. usually they say you should just agree with it. i didn't do that because i didn't agree with it but i did let him know that i don't agree with his excuses/reasons for d. i said i want to come to that conclusion myself. i don't want him ramming his reasons down my throat and saying i have to accept it. no way. he's been told this already. and he won't go to counselling and he won't give me a really good reason.

during the times when i pressed him for the real reason, it boiled down to two things:

1.) he couldn't get over how i "mistreated his parents at christmas".
2.) there was a lack of bedroom action in december.

those were the things that kept coming up in our r related discussions.

the thing with my h is that he makes a lot of assumptions and he's often wrong. yeah, i said it .. he's wrong.

he said his parents were cold in our house and i wouldn't let them turn the thermostat up.

i wouldn't let them? uh .. there's no lock on our thermostat. he's a big boy .. it's his house too .. he has fingers .. go turn it up yourself! i will ask them if they are cold, and they will say they are fine. what do you want me to do? i don't sit around thinking .. hmm, what do they really mean? guessing games are for children. grow up.

i'm sure his parents want their #1 spot back. they always had it. i took a back seat for the longest time and i didn't ask for a d.

the more i vent to you, it just seems like h and his parents want me to pay for this whole deal. parents want me to pay for the wedding money they put in. h wants me 75% of the house money. why am i being called the gold digger? i'm only going for what i'm entitled to and nothing more. why do they think i have to pay? i didn't even ask for this. i didn't cheat on my h. i didn't abuse him in any way. anybody with a brain should know how this works. it's goes against human nature. which is why i'm confused and i don't know how to approach the situation.

GG

[theGoodGirl]

lauraoh,

you don't know how much i appreciate the advice i get here.
i'm very grateful for the advice and support i get.

the advice is backed up with knowledge. it's not trial and error. if i challenge the advice because i don't quite understand the logic, i know you guys/gal will walk me through the "why this works". nobody gets offended.

i am open to the advice and i will definitely do the work. i have nothing to lose.

i really need to work through my anger. you can see in my last few posts that the anger is still raw inside. and this prevents me from making non-emotional decisions. that's why i don't say hi when i see him. the decision to ignore is based on the raw emotion that is still eating away at me.

i know that forrest and coach are trying to make me let go of this anger. it's standing in my way from moving forward.

i wouldn't try so hard to win my h back if there was chronic infidelity or abuse. i agree with MWD that sometimes you have to let the m go. in my case, none of those things apply. i feel that there is still something there. and i want to build on that. it will be a long road to recovery but as long as he's sitting in the rocker next to me when we're 80, it'll be worth it.

GG

[LauraOh]

Goodgirl, I just think that the stuff about you paying back for the wedding and rings being given back...it's sheer nonsense. I am sorry you have Inlaws that are like that-- YIKES!!!

Your H didn't marry this type of person and I think you modeled more reasonable attitudes about posessions and money--I think he *knows* there is something screwy about his parents' way of thinking. You guys have helped them out financially and he knows you have completely different ideas.

Unfortunately, they have his ear and he doesn't really have anyone else right now. And perhaps co-dependence issues.

But that may work out in your favor I think! I hope they are talking about it nonstop--and I think your H may get SICK of it!! He didn't want to be with anyone like that in the long run. That's why he married you.

I know he looks like he is going along with it, but deep down Goodgirl, I don't think this is how he really is. Would you agree?

Anyway, DO NOT give back the ring, and make sure to protect yourself.

Maybe a letter on your anniversary would be good telling him what that ring means to you and you treasure it as the best GIFT you ever received.

[Coach]

Why would they ask for money and gifts back?

Detach and look at it from their perspective. View your sitch like you are looking in a fishbowl.

Nothing wrong with anger, it's how you feel. It's when you let anger control your behavior that it becomes a problem. Two techniques for dealing with anger and the blues - make a list of what you are grateful for and do something nice for somebody else. Another one is to pray for your husband and your in-laws.

Did you do your homework yet? What's your plans for the weekend?

Cheers

[theGoodGirl]

Why would they ask for money and gifts back?

my guess is this:
h feels like he put more money into the house - the home itself, the furniture, etc.
and he's pissed off that the law says the home is divided equally 50/50.
his original plan was to make me agree to 75% for him, and 25% + the engagement ring for me. he felt that was fair and equitable.
i said no, i believe it's 50/50. now he's on a mission to recover as much of the 25% loss that he believes he is entitled to.
that's how he split the furniture. the law says 50/50 on the division of furniture but he decided the rule will be that anything his parents gave us, would be his. anything given to us by other people, we split 50/50. if his parents gave us anything of value, legally i am entitled to half the value of it. but i didn't ask for it. i had to pick and choose my battles. furniture division wasn't one of my battles. we tried to split the furniture on three occasions and most times it ended up with h throwing a temper tantrum about how unfair it was for him.

he made up this rule of gifts given to us were ours to keep. except when it was above a certain dollar value. this is where the jewellery and ring came into play.
i think he is holding the ring hostage so i would agree to the 75/25 split. he knows i cherish the ring. i only wear it on special occasions. it's very precious to me due to the sentimental value.

in the end, i walked away with a couch (that he said i could have), the kitchen table & chairs (that he said i could have), and the master bedroom suite (which we fought over). the rest, he took because he was angry that i got the bedroom suite. he was so angry, he decided the mattress was his, along with the bedding. i sat there in awe .. watching him throw this tantrum. we had a set of pillows in the linen closet. and he said he wanted 1 .. "you want a 50/50 split, right?" so he wouldn't even leave me with a set of pillows. i didn't fight it. who was i sleeping with anyway? nobody .. it would be just me. all i needed was one pillow. so there was no need to get all worked up over ... stuff.

after he moved out. i went to pack the remainder of my stuff in the house. i saw that he had left the pillow behind. i texted him and asked if he had forgotten it. he said no. i thought you might want a set.

why get yourself worked up over stuff like that? the less i reacted, the more agitated h got. but i wasn't unreasonable. once h calmed down, i think he saw how silly he was to do fight over a pillow.

why do they want the money back from the wedding? beats me. i'm still in shock mode. maybe because they feel our marriage was like an investment .. like they were "paying" me to keep their son happy and satisfied. now that the m is dissolving, they want their money back or they didn't get their money's worth? y'know, that makes me sound like a paid escort. i'm offended!

i am reading the learned optimism note found on shearonforschools.com.

this weekend. financial planning, grocery run, clean out my car, yoga, might find time to visit a friend who just bought a new house. clean up apartment - female friend from my squash club coming over for dinner. i'm famous for my soups and my friend is like a little sister to me. i tend to want to take care of those around me like they are my siblings. if they aren't eating right, i'll feed them.

my main goals for the summer are:
- tennis lessons - i bought cute tennis skirts for this!
- baking class - found a highly recommended fun baking course.
- revive the orchid that my h gave me.

as for your preppy east coast comment. yup. how'd you know?

GG

[Coach]

typed up a response and it got lost. re-write:

Why would they ask for money and gifts back?

My opinion - This is how they show love and keep score. So it's a way to hurt you in their eyes. Co-dependents can't verbalise their wants or needs. To a co-dependent love is conditional you broke their unexpressed conditions and this is how they punish you. Co-dependence, passive- aggressive, procrastination and pessimistic thinking all go hand in hand.

When you made the comment to your H about him getting checked out on the fertility issue it shamed him. Shame is when you think something is wrong with you. This triggers fear in a co-dependent because your love is conditional and if you think something is wrong with him (shame) then he is unlovable by you. Rejection is the worst. This leads to the mindreading - "you think/feel _____." She rejected me because she thinks something is wrong with me. This doesn't excuse his behavior just trying to help you understand. Make sense?

Do you see how his Mom has conditions for love and mind-reads you? This is a form of emotional blackmail. When I was a boy my mother would tell me she would cry if didn't do what she wanted. Made me responsible for her feelings. Not my responsiblity anymore. The only thing you can do is model healthy boundaries and show him that you are responsible for you own feelings.


180 idea - ask him to help you with something
Goal - get him to ask you out


You are doing the right things for yourself. What's the anger really trying to tell you?

Squash the only sport preppier than lacrosse. I grew up in Baltimore and coach HS lax.

Cheers

[theGoodGirl]

My opinion - This is how they show love and keep score.

Rule #1 - never keep score in a marriage. NEVER.

i don't keep score. it destroys your spirit.
this just fuels my anger towards them. for being so selfish that way. and they think of themselves as classy, wonderful people who wouldn't hurt a fly?

So it's a way to hurt you in their eyes.

i have no words.

To a co-dependent love is conditional you broke their unexpressed conditions and this is how they punish you. Co-dependence, passive- aggressive, procrastination and pessimistic thinking all go hand in hand.

i know you are explaining this so i can show some compassion.
i think you already know that i've said before. unexpressed conditions? not my problem. i don't mind read. that's childish. if they're punishing me for something THEY didn't tell me, i can't be sympathetic.

the co-dependence, PA, procrastination, and pessimistic thinking .. that defines their family. their pores ooze negativity.

When you made the comment to your H about him getting checked out on the fertility issue it shamed him. Shame is when you think something is wrong with you. This triggers fear in a co-dependent because your love is conditional and if you think something is wrong with him (shame) then he is unlovable by you.

i'm just .. stunned by the explanation. why? because i think i can see this in him. i was the only outsider he ever trusted to love him.

if he's dropping the d-bomb out of fear, he's showing his fear in a very antagonistic (if that is a word) way.

the funny thing is. i still love him. my life was better when he was in it. i loved him unconditionally. even when he hurt me, i still loved him. it's that optimistic side of me that sees it as "temporary".

She rejected me because she thinks something is wrong with me. This doesn't excuse his behavior just trying to help you understand. Make sense?

yes. i never thought of it that way. this is different from mind reading.

Do you see how his Mom has conditions for love and mind-reads you? This is a form of emotional blackmail.

it took me a while to grasp this one. but i can see it.
there was a time when his mother came to visit, and h had come home from work a bit early. he had a headache and so he came home early and went to our room to take a nap before dinner. his mother had posted a note outside the door that read "the door is unlocked. he is sleeping upstairs." i was not happy with the "door is unlocked" comment but i gently reminded her that for her own safety, it wasn't wise to announce to the outside world that our door is unlocked. she nodded and i went upstairs to check on my h. after a 10 min discussion with h, we came out of the bedroom to find her crying her eyes out. she claimed that i was angry with her and that she was only trying to help (famous words of hers). she said she didn't feel welcomed and wanted to take the next flight home. i turned to my h and said i'm not apologizing for that. i didn't do anything wrong. he had to go calm her down. the mind reading part was she thought i was mad at her for posting her note. i wasn't mad. i just told her it wasn't wise for her own safety. but i wasn't mad.

but i sure am not going to play that kind of game with them. that's just the most selfish and childish thing i've ever heard.

the running theme here .. is that they all mind read me and they're always wrong. i'm not that kind of person. i wasn't raised by wolves. my family isn't like that. we have no ulterior motive. even when the d-bomb was dropped, my family just wanted me to walk away with nothing because it wasn't worth it. taking things wasn't going to save my mental or physical well-being. things can be replace, but your health can't be.

When I was a boy my mother would tell me she would cry if didn't do what she wanted. Made me responsible for her feelings. Not my responsiblity anymore. The only thing you can do is model healthy boundaries and show him that you are responsible for you own feelings.

that's what h's mom does to him. and it makes him feel responsible for her feelings. so he hurts me in order to make her feel better? she's used my h against me?
how on earth am i going to fight this? there are no words i can say to h. i can be happy to show that this isn't going to define me or bring me down. but h will never see it that way. he's trapped in this world of co-dependency.

the only thing i can say is .. what he's trying to do isn't working. you wanna take everything we built together? if it makes you happy, go ahead. take it all. material things don't make me happy. they can be replaced. 20 some odd mugs in the house. he left me with 2. 20 tea towels in the house. he took them all. bath towels, bedding, pillows, lamps, cutlery, kitchen gadgets .. took them all. left me with nothing. i didn't fight for any of it. take it. if it makes you happy. take it.

he wanted to hurt me by taking my DSLR camera collection. i said take it. you want it. take it. i'll buy a new one. the next day, he said i could have my camera back.

i'm not a doormat. i am responsible for my own health. i have to protect my own health and pick my battles.

180 idea - ask him to help you with something
Goal - get him to ask you out

why ask him to help me with something? he used to tell me to stop being so needy and clingy. didn't he just want me to be independent?

a few days before the house closed, i went back alone to take the curtains down (they weren't part of the deal). i borrowed a ladder from a friend, bought myself the tools i needed and i took them down myself. h came by to drop off the keys and his garage door opener. he saw me taking the curtains down and he asked if i needed any help. i said no, i'm fine.

i don't need him ... i want him but i don't need him. besides, the evil blackmailing mother was in the car waiting. if he spent an extra minute talking to me, she'd get out of the car and drag him away from me.

right now, i'm acting as if i don't need or want him. i'm fine. i didn't run home to my parents, i didn't cry like a helpless cat, i didn't need my mommy or daddy to help me pack or move.

You are doing the right things for yourself. What's the anger really trying to tell you?

i don't know anymore. that's a lot of information to digest.

GG

[Coach]

[quote]i think you already know that i've said before. unexpressed conditions? not my problem. i don't mind read. that's childish. if they're punishing me for something THEY didn't tell me, i can't be sympathetic./quote]

OK, I understand what you are saying but do you want to be right or married? You knew it was wrong yet didn't do anything productive to solve the problem. Why? You didn't have the tools and weren't aware of how it appeared in your relationship with your H and his family. I am trying to help you become aware of the unhealthy dialouge and how to remedy it. You need to learn the tools of healthy dialouge.

The first step in reconciling is losing all the negative feelings. The only one you can change is yourself, Forrest is fond of pointing out that we can only address you in our dialouges so the advise is geared to you and hence all the work. So are you ready to do the work?

Hope you had a great weekend squash girl. You will cherish your time here later I promise.


Cheers