WAH and LBW separated and dark

[theGoodGirl]

just a quick reply. i really gotta spend less time on the boards.

i was reading gr8 2b alive's thread and i felt my hope meter take a nose dive.

i feel really bad for him. and i felt like i was able relate to that.

he wasn't able to meet his w's needs. it was too late.
she is done and it's now over. she no longer wants to be with him.

why do i feel like i'm going to meet the same fate?

i love my h. we misread each other's LL. i think i kept showing my love by doing acts of service. which was so not his LL.

the next time i see h .. maybe i will actually muster up the courage and say hi back.

the last two times, i didn't say a word to him.
i am sure he knows i am pissed off with him.
i was pissed because his mother was extremely rude to me and he said she apologized to him (not to me!) and it's all good. good my arse.
yet, i'm no where near that kind of rudeness and i get d-bombed?

i need to get some sleep.

sleepy good girl.

[LauraOh]

Don't look at other's threads and give up. Everyone is unique.

And here is something else--Men are more forgiving of mistakes than women. Your H has already forgiven your "perceived rudeness". YOU are still hanging onto it.

[Forrest Gump]

"i did the LL quiz and quality time beat out physical touch by one point. i need both."

Most women are a mix of "some". Most men are just one. It has to do with the way men and women are programmed. There are rare cases where it is reversed but.. not very often.

Be careful with the LL thing for you. Your "stitch" can color it some. LL's are a gauge to give you a starting point.

"when i look back, i misread h's display of affection. h bought me a lot of stuff. very often, i would tell him that i didn't need all that stuff. i kept drilling into him that i didn't need material things to make me happy. he would continue to buy me nice things but it made me feel like he thought the only way to impress me was with expensive gifts - ie. like i was a high maintenance gold digger. and here i am shouting at the top of my lungs that i'm not a gold digger and i didn't marry him for his money!"

But men are told that this is what women want.. even if they say they don't. Some men think that if women are saying "I don't need this".. it means the want more of it. Typically someone who is a "gifts" person does not buy expensive things. The "gifts" are usually more heartfelt.. and sincere.

"it almost feels like he's db-ing on me."

"i saw him the other day and he didn't look upbeat or cheery.
he looked kind of down."

Yea.. he is not DB'ing. That I am sure of. 100%. On the .00001% chance he is DB'ing.. he is failing miserably.

"and i was so tempted to ask him what was wrong? then just tear into him with "why the long face? shouldn't you be happy you got me out of your life? shouldn't you just be overjoyed that you got rid of this mistake of a marriage?"
but i didn't. showed a lot of restraint."

I bet if you asked him about that "interaction".. he would say it was "more of the same". The prevailing thought thru that statement was you "digging" back at him. I would bet money he saw it to. This is what you have to "hide".. or stop.

"they do understand his LL. they buy him stuff all the time. i saw it as him being materialistic. in chapman's book, it says that it's not necessarily true."

If you don't know what to do.. you go with what you know. Sound familiar?

[LauraOh]

Yes, I agree with Forrest--that interaction still proably had "digging" all over it. If you think it, they will smell it.

I will say that my H is a pretty close combination of Acts and Physical. And so is my son. I would say a LOT of men I have "tested" (it is like a little hobby of mine now.lol) are combinations, not just one.

[theGoodGirl]

Be careful with the LL thing for you. Your "stitch" can color it some. LL's are a gauge to give you a starting point.

i'll try not to focus solely on the LL. but it definitely opened my eyes to our sitch and how i got to where we are today.

But men are told that this is what women want.. even if they say they don't. Some men think that if women are saying "I don't need this".. it means the want more of it. Typically someone who is a "gifts" person does not buy expensive things. The "gifts" are usually more heartfelt.. and sincere.

but i really didn't need those things.
i pride myself on being able to make my own $$ and buy my own things. i spend conservatively and i'm aware of what i need vs. nice to have things.

i feel bad for h because many times he'd ask me what i wanted for my birthday and i couldn't come up with anything. it wasn't because i wanted him to think about something sincere to give me. most of the time, all i wanted was a card with a love letter written inside. spending time reading that card is like a form of quality time for me. it's as if he's right there telling me that he loved me. i still go back to those cards and i read about how much he loved me.

I bet if you asked him about that "interaction".. he would say it was "more of the same". The prevailing thought thru that statement was you "digging" back at him. I would bet money he saw it to. This is what you have to "hide".. or stop.

that is where i really need to do a 180.
he knows when i have this snide look on my face. often he says "you're giving me that look".

i dug into him when we were dividing the wedding photos.
i told him that he shouldn't be keeping any of the wedding photos or any of our photos for that matter.
this was me.. "why would you want to keep any photos of us? it would be a constant reminder of this huge "mistake" you made in marrying me! didn't you say you wanted to "move on"?" to which he quietly mumbled "no, i never said that."
i continued to dig "besides, i don't think your new gf would want you to be keeping photos of your ex-wife around. if she makes you get rid of them, then i might as well take them because at least, i valued our marriage."
just to be clear, there isn't an OW but i made that accusation anyway.

the reason why i attack that way is because when you make bold statements like "we have to move on" or "my parents are starting to question my decision to marry you" .. i will use your words against you.

i'm really bad at setting boundaries. i turn true b*tch instead.

maybe the Good Girl isn't so good after all ..

[theGoodGirl]

Yes, I agree with Forrest--that interaction still proably had "digging" all over it. If you think it, they will smell it.

yeah. this is where i need to really hold back.
it's hard to hide the look on my face.
this would be the hardest 180 to do.
the problem isn't really my physical appearance.
the problem is in my attitude because i hold him responsible (in a condescending and mean way) when his actions don't match his words.

i can certainly see how i was not a good person. i guess i was trying to teach him integrity. do as you say. don't say one thing and then do another.

the GG

[LauraOh]

I don't think you'll have to worry about your attitude from this day on.

You seem to be "getting it". The more you look into your sitch, the more you hold the mirror up to yourself, the more you'll see that it isn't so black and white.

Sometimes you are a GoodGirl

And sometimes you aren't a GoodGirl.

Forgiveness is on the horizon.

[Forrest Gump]

"I would say a LOT of men I have "tested" (it is like a little hobby of mine now.lol) are combinations, not just one."

I would disagree with that. Maybe we can discuss it one day.

Maybe you will change my mind.. LOL.

"I'll try not to focus solely on the LL. but it definitely opened my eyes to our stitch and how i got to where we are today."

This is a good step. Just don't go overboard with it. Concentrate on understanding you.. and what is important to you. Leave the mind reading and guessing until later down the road. Can't stress this enough.

"but i really didn't need those things.
i pride myself on being able to make my own $$ and buy my own things. i spend conservatively and i'm aware of what i need vs. nice to have things."

"i feel bad for h because many times he'd ask me what i wanted for my birthday and i couldn't come up with anything. it wasn't because i wanted him to think about something sincere to give me. most of the time, all i wanted was a card with a love letter written inside. spending time reading that card is like a form of quality time for me. it's as if he's right there telling me that he loved me. i still go back to those cards and i read about how much he loved me."

I understand that you did not need those things. I doubt very seriously that you are a "gold digger". Again.. you have pointed out the fact that his "family" lavished him. That little bit of uncertainty that you had could have been read by him in so many ways. I won't even think about listing them all. If you "create" doubt in a situation.. even if it was not your intention.. you allow the other person to infer "something". Never fails.. people do the "wrong" thing.

In your mind.. asking for that card you really wanted.. took a little bit away from the "gift". In his mind.. he was going with what had worked. Think back to how you reacted when you were dating to the nice gift he got you. How did you react differently years down the road?

"that is where i really need to do a 180.
he knows when i have this snide look on my face. often he says "you're giving me that look"."

You will be surprised at what a WAS can "see". The bad stuff they can really "see".. cause it is what they are looking for.

This is why it is important to break away from the mold they have of you. Smiling goes a long way to helping that.. even if it is fake at first.

"the reason why i attack that way is because when you make bold statements like "we have to move on" or "my parents are starting to question my decision to marry you" .. i will use your words against you."

But.. do you really think that this is a malicious attack on you.. and who you are? Do you really think your H woke up one morning and said you know what.. she has made my life hel1.. now I am gonna return the favor? "This" is a result of poor decisions.. and lots of mind reading.. on both of your parts. You got here together.. but it just takes one to direct where you go from here. If you wanna keep living the life you were.. keep on like you are. It will get worse.. and worse. Or you change yourself and understand that this is not an "attack".. but the result of lots of "Emotion". Maybe you save the M.. maybe you don't. The turn around to get you started is to get your mind straight. Stop acting out.. and use your mind. Start small.. build on that.

"i'm really bad at setting boundaries. i turn true b*tch instead."

It is fine to be B*tchy.. some find it attractive. Too much of a good thing.. well that sucks! It is fine that you suck at setting boundaries.. gives you lots of room to improve! Still would like you to answer those questions I asked a few posts back.

[theGoodGirl]

quick reply to Forrest.

i thought i replied to your note a while back. did i miss some questions?

GG

[theGoodGirl]

i can't believe i totally missed your reply, FG!

It would be normal if you set a boundary and implemented the LRT. Which to a point you have done. I can't say that it was fully thought thru and it was your true intention.. but that is where you are.

the only implicit boundaries i've set are that when you ask for a divorce, we can't be friends.
when you say things like "my parents are starting to question my decision in marrying you" and you believe it too, then i don't expect me to be cordial to you.
when your mother mistreats me and you brush it off, then i will not acknowledge you.

It is not normal because there is usually enough "drama" in these situations to "force" you to poke at one another.

i'm trying to minimize the drama.
for the four months we were still living under the same roof but separated, we didn't have shouting matches every day. we went about our own business. he would be mad about the financial "shafting" he was going to face. and whenever he thought about that, his hate for me grew. he harassed me by calling me a gold digger, by telling me that he wasn't buying groceries anymore because he felt he paid for enough things during our marriage.
i ignored a lot of that and just shrugged my shoulders.
i bought stuff and he helped himself to what i bought.
it got childish but i didn't want to go to that level.
h fell ill one day and i offered to get him some chicken soup.
he wasn't always an a*hole.
when he wasn't thinking about money, he would be the normal h.
sometimes i wonder what would have happened if i had agreed to walking away with 25% instead of the 50% that i am legally entitled to.

Cause from what I am reading you both ventured down this path without fully understanding why you were doing it.

i agree with your statement.
i don't know why it's being done. but the advice i get from every counsellor is that when one of you wants out, nothing can be done.
h told me to go look for a L.
so i did. my L wants to get the separation agreement completed asap.
so i gathered my paperwork.
h has been shopping around for a pricey L. finally found one and they have already stated that alimony is out of the question because we are both "self-sufficient".
my L said that it's not the end of the world yet. many of his clients have gotten back together. the sooner the money issue is off the table, it won't be looming over h's head and then we can focus on the real issues at hand.

i wish i knew why we were doing this.

And you agreed without understanding the emotional and mental toll that it would take on you. Now you realize that the rules are not in your favor.. your blaming him.

actually, i knew that it was going to take this kind of toll on me as well.
i tried to stop it without the begging, pleading, and crying.
i understand that this hell lasts for at least 2 yrs. i didn't think i'd be going anorexic like this though.

"this is the ultimate betrayal to me."

So.. Yes. Understand the "work" behind that thought. For now we go on what you said.

forrest, you gotta stop speaking in code. the "work" behind that thought?
i couldn't be with someone after their manhood has been in someone else's yoohoo.
the good girl only buys brand new - never used. that is not negotiable.

So.. you have locked yourself into a D?

we are getting there.
separation agreement is being worked out.
h will probably file for d and will be granted a few months after the mandatory separation period.
at that point, the friendship isn't even salvageable.
in some ways, i've started to move on without him.
i am working with a financial planner to make sure i will be okay financially moving forward. i know that women often face a big financial hurdle after d. i don't want to be one of those people who can't live without a man's support.
i want to own my own home one day. i will get there. on my own.
am i jaded? very likely. but i'm very angry at having wasted the nine years of my life on someone who just decided that i wasn't worth fighting for.
i wouldn't do this again. divorce rates are higher for 2nd marriages. why would i put myself through hell again? because i need to lose more weight? i'm 5' 2" and under 100 lbs. i'm skin and bones right now. i lose any more weight and my health will truly be in jeopardy. it isn't worth it.

This is kinda important. As for DB'ing you will have to "rethink" your situation. You will need to figure out what he is really saying to you. It will have to happen.. and you will have understand where he is coming from.

how is this different from mind reading? my imagination tends to run wild so i try not to think too much about deciphering what he's trying to say. aren't men usually straight forward and women are the ones who speak in a cryptic language?

If you have a separation agreement in place and he is supposed to be paying "support".. why is he not? Are you being proactive in "fixing" that? (Don't run out and "fix" that just yet.)

it's being worked out. i am only going to go with what the law says i am entitled to. nothing more.
it almost seems like i'm the WAS. usually the WAS says take whatever, and they just want out. but my h wants out but he also wants everything.

You have said that you did not part on "hostile" grounds. But.. I am not believing that. You can't introduce divorce papers and not be somewhat hostile. Your 1-2 interactions with him have seemed somewhat "hostile".

i don't think we're out of the turbulent phase yet.
things are still too fresh in h's mind. i'm sure he's still angry with me about the financials. i don't blame myself for that. i mean, the law is the law. and i'm not going after more than what i am entitled to even though i am the LBS.

To me.. the big issue here is that you don't fully understand who or what you really are. You don't know how to clearly "communicate" your needs. From everything I have read "here" you two are suffering from some big "growing pains".

i think communication was a big factor in our breakdown. i think we love each other but don't know how to communicate that to the other person. coupled with the fact that i'm not experienced in relationships.

Why do you want this marriage to "work"?

Explain to me in great detail why it is important to you.

What in this M made you.. a better you?

i spent a lot of time getting to know h before we got together as a couple.
we talked a lot about who we were. our values, morals, and family.
our courtship was one test after another. job loss, family tragedy, family issues, long distance relationship.
he was my best friend. when we were married, i didn't doubt him at all.
i mentioned above that infidelity was the ultimate betrayal.
i never doubted h's faithfulness to me. even to this day, i trust him on that level.
i don't put that kind of trust in anybody.
over the years that i've known h, we learned a lot from each other and about each other.
we both brought different knowledge/skills to the table and we learned from each other - to me, it made us grow as a couple and as individuals.
we experienced things together that we can never share with anybody else.
in all honesty, i learned to live a better life when he came into my world. he showed me how to live well. for that, i am truly grateful.
don't misjudge that as living lavishly. it's about working hard and being able to enjoy the fruits of your labour without feeling guilty.
i lived poorly for a long time. even though i made a very decent living, i continued to live poorly and didn't understand why i was working so hard and life wasn't getting any better. i was miserable.
through h, i learned that it was okay to treat myself to nice things every once i a while. and it changed my life. i worked hard, and i saw what working hard could do. i was able to get out of that poverty mentality that made me miserable.
he made life worth living for me. i was happy when i was with h.
i didn't need him but i wanted to be with him.
he made me a better person. i feel there is still room to grow. i was looking forward to planning other adventures with him. now? it'll never happen.
in return, i'd like to think that i was his sounding board.
i helped him in areas where he was weaker.
i was his partner in crime. i helped him through tough parts of his job.
i took care of things when he didn't have time. we were a team and we managed to get things done.

Leaving out that your H is Co-Whatever.. what were the issues that lead you "here"? All of your answers must start with "We".

our sex life was good until december '09.
i will take the blame for that one. i was afraid to be more adventurous in the bedroom.
we were struggling to have children.
we both neglected our m because chores, responsibilities got in the way.
we moved from a big city to a smaller city - less things to do. life got boring.
we spent too much time together and didn't have separate hobbies to work on. i understand that it is important to have individual time.
we took each other for granted.
we were no longer communicating effectively. this affected our sex life a great deal.

In case you missed it.. Coach is pointing out the fact that your H is watching. Even if you are 100% sure he is not.. I will tell you.. you are wrong. People hide behind all kinds of "Emotion" when they are faced with a situation like this. Your job becomes.. to figure out what they are really saying.. from behind that "Emotion".

and this also isn't mind reading?

Be a leader.. pay attention to who follows you.

after that exercise above, i feel like crap. i couldn't lead a pack of hungry wolves to dinner.

I know I am late.. and Coach is here now. I managed to lop off a small piece of my finger on my right hand. So.. needless to say.. it slowed me down some.

i hope you are okay. i thought you abandoned me!

At the end of the day.. this "stitch" will define you. Trust me on that. You will know who you are.. and what you want. Define that first before you do anything else. You have plenty of time.

do i really have plenty of time? even with separation agreement being worked out? i look at my response above, and i feel like i deserve to be left behind.
that long hard look in the mirror is ugly.
it's going to take a miracle and half to bring this m back.
i have little faith that this can be saved. which means i will be facing a life sentence to solitude.
here i thought h did so much damage to our r.
i have equally done as much damage to our r.

i do have much to think about. now what?

the Good Girl.