Disclaimer - I am the one who cheated in our M, so if this will upset you, please ignore my thread. I"m wanting advice from the betrayed on how to get H back - any and all kind words of advice welcome!
I hope to not upset anyone, but over a year ago, I had a fling. My H found out, left. Waffled for a few months, found his own OW and has pursued a R with her since.
I know I am the one who betrayed - and I have owned it, apologized, gone to C and support groups to figure out why (connected to childhood abuse) and have given H legal separation.
All this said, I am completely remorseful, continue to work on myself and my issues, and have worked on trying to show H how seriously remorseful and changed I am. I know that this can only be shown with actions, not words, but after a year, I am feeling hopeless.
Any advice as to what the betrayed wants/needs? Even with all the pain you have suffered, what is it that makes you want to keep your M? What can I do at this point? I love my H and my child and hope to reconsile someday although I have let my H live his separate life.
We have some MC but it's mostly being used for coparenting as H says "We've already done MC and it didn't work."
I appreciate your support, if it's not too painful to offer it.
Ok so let me see if I have this straight. You had a MLC and your LBS then went into his own MLC. You are now coming out of the crisis and he is still in his own crisis. You would like to reconcile with him but he appears to have moved on with out you. This is NOT unusual.
I see there is one child?
Have you read the DR book?
You need to continue to look in the mirror and make changes to yourself. Why did you cheat? Why was your M not working?
At this point there is only one person you can control and that is YOU! You need to make yourself the best MOM that you can be and continue to work on yourself and your issues. This is not something that can be FIXED with the push of the button. It will take much hard work, and lots of patience. Is that something that you can do?
I bet your H didn't fight the affair for very long did he? It looks like he put two months into his marriage and then ran away...
Sorry, but BOTH of you didn't grow up and ended up escaping into sex instead...
Escapes don't solve life's problems... they just make them WORSE. Escapes distract you, time aggravates these untended to problems...
This is what an affair does... you escape to get away from your problems, they get worse and worse... they don't go away...
Your husband HAD a CHANCE to learn something and grow and he blew it... his loss... Two months is NOT enough time to fight wayward spouses... and certainly not long enough to deal with a WS having an affair...
His new rel has been running for what.. ten months now?
It's all in the open and no one's lying or keeping any secrets?
What's the maturity level of OW here?
Is there a divorce on OW's end there too? Do they BOTH have kids from previous marriages?
I am wondering if OW would be willing or have the courage to step aside if you spoke to her?
Cuccoon... There are different kinds of relationships :
1. Short term/one night fling 2. A conventional long term romantic relationship 3. An addictive, taboo, secret infidelity 4. A conventional long term romantic relationship while managing divorce/children from previous marriage
These all have very different variables at play...
A type 3 can turn into a type 1, but rarely if ever gets to a 4... and if there are children involved it will NEVER get to a 2 which is the ideal (many spouses think when they divorce they will get a 2, but its not realistic)
I am trying to establish what we are dealing with here... You aren't involved with anyone? What is the state of OM with you?
Does he still have your phone number? Does he know your address? Is he gone out of the picture completely?
The status of your OM and his OW are both important here...
I suspect your H is just escaping to try to avoid the pain... It's a common tactic, but it doesn't work...
I will try to answer all questions - thank you so much for not judging me and offering to help!
Yes, I was in an MLC. I had a one night stand that became a short thing -three/four times total.
AT first, before H found out, I did say some bad stuff I didn't mean - I said we should be in an open relationship and he should get more experience (I was bitter about not being ML for almost the entirety of our year M). This BS ended as soon as he found out. I immediately started looking in the mirror, coming out of denial, as you said, I escaped into sex, it was a symptom, and I knew I had to face myself. I started realizing I had an MLC from turning 40, my son starting preschool (I was a ft at home mom and felt empty), not having a job, and being in an artist community where most people are in their twenties. I also joined a support group where I unearthed that I had been molested by a babysitter at the same age my son was at the time I had my fling.
I told H all these new insights and of course didn't know what to believe.
H found out after the second time I was with the OM. H kicked me out for a month, but S4 was really homesick so we returned and H got a "temporary apt." However, he barely spoke to me. We started making some progress over the next couple months of at least talking on the phone, spending short amounts of time together, and had a plan to go to MC at month four.
I back slid a couple more times returning to the fling, out of lonliness, and fear that H was gone for good. Had I known about this site then, I wouldn't have felt so depsondent.However, I had no relationship with this guy at all and knew it. I wanted to save my M from the moment H found out which is why I started going to therapy and support groups and reading books and trying to figure out what happened.
IT ended after my H had been gone three months and backed out of the MC he promised to attend at that time. (I think I have recently figured out he found OW by then).
Things deteriorated from there for us, but I started to really get my house in order.
I continued to try to show changes - doing all the things he complained about - of course I never contacted OM again, got rid of all phone #s/emails/photos, etc, where I had been partying for about nine months ( but out of escape - I fooled myself into thinking I was happy but I wasn't), I was home every night. NO parties. No drinking. My house became very clean and organized. I worked on finding a part time job. I continued therapy and support groups. I started cooking full meals. I tried to stay calm. We had a habit of monthly huge fights previous to all this, and between august and december my H was raging every time he came over. He came over to stay with S because we agreed he's too little to shuffle back and forth. I worked on being calm while his verbal rage increased.
I have not been involved with anyone since - I have kept my commitment to reconciliation. Gave H a legal separation when he said all he wanted was the money separated "in case of divorce" but that he didn't really want the "legal" separation, and it would have no bearing on our romantic relationship. He said he would only give it a try after this was signed. Needless to say, I bought his BS, and once it was signed, he told me he had had a gf since august and he's not coming back.
I have read the DB and DR books - and I've lurked here a few weeks now. I've done somethings right, some wrong. I've done the show an upbeat/positive me, did a lot of 180's in terms of committing to being home and a good mom and wife where I was a partier for the previous nine months before he left...etc. I finally got him to go back to MC and it has helped his anger and aggression calm down a little, but that is it.
H shows other signs of MLC from what little I know - started hanging out regularly with his younger brother (12 years younger who is quite a partier!) socializing in role playing groups, going to clubs, and this supposed gf - this from the man who was serious as a heart attack his whole life - over responsible, never partied in college, not too many gfs ever, rarely socialized when we were M - conservative, traditional, geeky. He's become so different now.
I know nothing of OW and I have told him I want to know nothing. I do know that he was home with us for two weeks over xmas and new years, here for my birthday, his birthday, even our anniversary and valentines day. SO how serious can it be? they probably date once every one/two weeks. I see him every other day.
So now that I"ve written far too much - how can you help me? It's been over a year and his MLC has entrenched while mine is gone. I have changed in growth while he has changed in immaturity. Is there hope? What is it?
Although he lied that he would give our M a chance, and yet never really did - complained we never talked about the "big issues" in the M< but never brought any up, including the fling, and got very defensive and shut down when I brought up deeper issues of why our M got where it did and what I was going through at the time (in MC). He showed up and listened, but ultimately seems to not care or try. He has continued to hold the position of total blame - "you abandoned me, not the other way aroun;, I don't have to change, you do; This M was doomed from day one and I should have seen it and not put up with your crap ever - should have never married you" etc etc etc....
He has to go through his period of growth and self-realization the same way you did. When you had your A, it probably devastated him. Heck we all felt that way. Just because you've "dealt" with it, doesn't mean that he has.
Is the OW a band-aid? Probably. But you mentioned that you went back to the OM several times. Once was bad enough, but to have it continue on is mind-numbing.
IMO, maybe you need to lay off the pressure. Live your life and show him that your changes are permanent. Continue to tell him where you are and what you're doing so that he starts trusting you. It's not going to happen overnight, but maybe over time enough goodwill will be built up that he will want to start trying.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Ok, I am still trying to sort out the timeline fully but I think I get the bulk of events...
You were escaping for nine months and now he's been escaping for a year or thereabouts...
He has at least two bad influences in his life right now... His brother and OW.
I suspect that OW is an immature partier as well... So my earlier thought of approaching OW will not likley work either... I was hoping he was seeing someone with some maturity...
The first good sign is that OW isn't likley going to last...
Your H got hurt quite bad.. I can confirm that for sure since I and others have been there... This is NOT an easy thing to process...
But he's not working to deal with it... It doens't sound like EITHER of you were equipped to process the aftermath of an affair... I suspect the MC you were seeing wasn't all that great either... Most aren't...
1. Have you found a GOOD family therapist to visit regularly on your own? 2. Have you read Spring's After the Affair or Glass' Not Just Friends? These are both excellent texts on the subject of recovery from infidelity.
Both go into explaining infidelity from its birth to it's end, but the second half will be a very good idea for you right now... MWD doens't write much in infidelity, but she HAS endorsed Glass' text if you are fond of MWD's materials exclusively. I reccomend a lot of other FT's materials outside MWD.. DR is a good start, but its not much ammunition on its own...
3. If your H DOES come back you need to be READY to work with what he's been through... I realize you are in a lot of hurt now too, but it sounds like you are now mature enough to cope constructively as opposed to whenever your affair started... I get the impression you know how all that happened so I won't go into that... Your H is going through much of the same thing...
The challenges are that he has a LOT more justification from his position than other WS' do.. he is going to experience far less guilt about what he's doing...
The positives are that he DOES like a stable mature household... I suspect his brother and the OW (is she younger than him?) aren't offering him that at all.. He may come to miss that... so ensure you are offering that.. your SON needs it anyhow... The environments we build for our children are just as healthy for us... we dont' realize it at the time, but good parenting of your child will force you to grow up...
4. My strategy right now is thinking maybe your H might be willing to attend FT if it is presented as counselling for how the two of you can co-parent under separation... But if you have GOOD FT he or she may be able to work in some subtle incentives to get your H to consider reconcilliation... and maybe even to ditch OW for now so he can focus on being a parent.
That would be my advice as a FT would be to suggest if his involvement is not serious, I would suggest that he NOT date until the two of you have gotten to a point where you two can be solid parents for your son... dating can be a HUGE distraction, and right now there is a lot going on that you two need to sort out... I just don't know if your H would take to that advice at all.. But I am wondering if he would if it came from a FT...
I know he said "it didn't work", but he has to understand that FT's talents and approaches VARY DRAMATICALLY... it makes a HUGE difference to go to a different FT... it's similar to a restaurant... Just having been to ONE BAD one does not in any way suggest they are ALL BAD... It was more just BAD LUCK than anything...
But I always reccomend this.. YOU go on your OWN first to get a sense of where the FT is at.. keep interviwing FT's on your own until you have one you like, then see if you can invite H along...
You do get exposure to your H regularly, and you aren't writing as if he's outright HOSTILE to reconcilliation, just very HURT and SCARED... so he's partying to process that rather than to deal with it like an adult... through YOU and a FT.
Read the second half of those two books I suggested, they are pretty good at giving you some ideas on what he is dealing with and how to handle him...
You also have BEEN where he is, so you have some insight as to where his head is at...
5. Is there anyone supporting you that he might trust or listen to if they spoke with him? a Family member or friend you both share?
Although he lied that he would give our M a chance, and yet never really did - complained we never talked about the "big issues" in the M< but never brought any up, including the fling, and got very defensive and shut down when I brought up deeper issues of why our M got where it did and what I was going through at the time (in MC). He showed up and listened, but ultimately seems to not care or try. He has continued to hold the position of total blame - "you abandoned me, not the other way aroun;, I don't have to change, you do; This M was doomed from day one and I should have seen it and not put up with your crap ever - should have never married you" etc etc etc....
Hi again Cuccoon.
1. You need to understand that until he processes the betrayal he is NOT going to receive explanations or background of the infidelity very well.
I know you want him to hear how YOU felt, but it is WAY TOO EASY for the sharing of feelings to sound like an excuse.
When the affair hits home, and that HARD, REPEATED OFFENSES to boot... If you say ANYTHING other than that you are sorry it just makes it HURT a LOT MORE...
When he says
"You hurt me, you abandoned me, you betrayed me"
If you say ANYTHING other than "I'm sorry, it was wrong" it just TWISTS the knife in...
And you likely responded to this with
"I was lonely" "You weren't around" "You never touch me" "I didn't feel loved"
All of that just sounds like you are VALIDATING or EXCUSING the affair.
For at least six months you need to CAP that until HE can process the affair.. he WILL need to hear what was going on with you, but THAT soon will just DO MORE DAMAGE... I suspect that's what happened.... You wanted to share how you felt at the time and he took it as you justifying yourself.
Infidelity is NEVER an acceptable response to marital probelems... NEVER associate infidelity with them in conversation with a wounded spouse... It will NOT get the response you expect.
The way to handle it is to JUST LISTEN and SYMPATHIZE, apologize as often as you can...
This is in the books too that I mentioned, as well as other good advice.
The time to talk about the other problems in your marriage will happen, but until HE TRUSTS you and has processed the infidelity he will NOT accept other relationship talk.
When you betray your spouse with an affair nothing else will enter their mind other than that betrayal for a long time.
Forcing other stuff in just DOES DAMAGE.
I would toss the MLC stuff right now, it just sounds like an excuse, it isnt' going to help you.
You both have to understand that love is a commitment to adulthood and maturity, not to acting on emotional impulses and scorekeeping/fingerpointing when things get difficult.
I think you understand that now. Love is a commitment to maturity.
I love you means "I am going to commit to you for life and accept all the heartbreaks that come with it"
It has nothing to do with "I feel really excited and dizzy right now so I must be in love"
He needs to heal from the infidelity before you can talk about other issues... to HIM, until THAT is HEALED, he won't consider anything else worthy of talk.. THAT wound is the BIGGEST to HIM, and it is ALSO the MOST FRESH...
I know it's selfish, as you are hurting too, but this is wayward syndrome my dear, his hurt is the ONLY hurt he's concerned about right now... YOURS is on the backburner for now... THAT is something you have to get used to...
I know, he never did, those HERE HAVE.. it takes MONTHS to learn how to put YOUR FEELINGS aside and to JUST think about where your spouse is at... many drive their spouses away because they can't detach their emotions from their spouse long enough to heal the damage and motivate them to come back.
