Shelbel I've just had a quick dash through your sitch, and although I'm far from qualified to offer any advice, here's what I think. Just steering clear will help you become less confused and give him some time to think about what he really wants. I know that NC really helped me screw my head back on and start feeling like a human being again. In terms of communication I think this is key. Know your own mind before speaking to him to discuss where he stands.
Reality is that which, if you don't believe in it, doesn't go away.
I am sorry to hear of your sitch. Have been reading for a while because I feel that maybe my wife has been where you are. I maybe am trying to understand what she is thinking. Becasue since the day my wife left me, but then came back I have really turned my life around. I thought that was what she is looking for. But now she is confused I think. I keep rooting for you that he will get a clue and get some help. It is obvious that he needs to get some stuff out and dealt with. I think my W has the same problem. I will keep checking in on you and hope for the best. Stay strong for your kids, that is how I keep going.
Thank you guys. I appreciate you keeping up on this mess. It's hard enough for *me* to keep up on it.
I called h last night to ask about S8's bookbag for school, he'd left it at MIL's. H found it, mentioned that he might bring it up, along with the Boy Scout rocket that had gone MIA. He then went on and on about how it didn't matter, there was one in the attic, S8 didn't even like rockets, which was strange to him because he liked them when he was a kid, so on and so forth. He was kind of talking in circles, all I could really do was listen.
He talked about his healing injury (motorcycle accident last week), about all the work he's doing at his mom's. I'd manage to get in *maybe* a dozen words in the whole time he was talking. He was lucid, I don't think he had been drinking or doing anything else. He was just chatty. And not nearly as negative.
He again mentioned coming up to bring S8 his school supplies, and I mentioned that I had a few things here for him, like his new car insurance card. That led into him talking about having gotten insurance on the bike on his own since he'd left.
My response? "I wondered about that, I just wasn't going to pry."
Of course, I'd have had every right to ask, we are still very much legally and financially bound to one another. But I didn't. I just have to trust that he's going to be a grownup, and grownups have to make their own decisions.
I have decided that I will need a few things from him before I even entertain the notion of working on our R. Let me know what you think...
~He will need to see a physician to check his thyroid & his free testosterone levels. Both can make you batty if they are out of whack. He will also need an STD panel if he chooses to engage in any sexual activity. I don't think he will, but again, he's not under my roof & must make his own decisions.
~He will need to seek IC to figure out what is going on in his head. And if his IC suggests to him (like the last one did!) that he get on meds, then I want him to do just that. I don't care if he doesn't think he needs them. He can't see the forest for the trees right now.
~He will need to be gainfully employed. Since he does not put much stock in the importance of raising children and helping around the house, then he needs to find another way to contribute. He quit school, he bases his ability to take care of his family in monetary terms, then he needs to start adding something he feels IS valuable.
~He will quit drinking and stop using any drugs that weren't prescribed to him by a physician. Don't smoke pot, don't take you grandmother's *nerve pills* just because she thinks you need them, don't take what's left of my pain pills (for a peritonsilar abcess, I'm getting them yanked in a few months) just because you say you hurt your back/shoulder/ankle/whatever.
H had developed an addiction several years ago (smoking weed & taking prescription drugs). He revealed it to me, but was terrified he'd lose us. It never occurred to me to leave him right then--I supported him while he went through outpatient rehab. But I told him that he forfeited any right to privacy he had when it came to the topic of drugs. I wouldn't nag him about it, but I reserved my right to question him if I thought he'd been using again. He could do whatever he wanted--just not as my husband or their father.
Of course, that could be why he'd hidden it from me so well.
So what do you think? How and when do I make those contingencies known? I'd read a bit in other threads of letting the spouse know that there *is* a way home, if they choose to take it. Of course I don't want him home just because he's sick and tired of living at his mom's. I want him home because he misses us and chooses to be with us. I want him back as an independent, self assured man--not another little boy that I have to contain, control & coddle.
Are you listening, LBHs?? When the wise ones tell you that your WAWs want you to be men, they mean it. We do! Confident, calm, put together, and happy just being himself--if my H showed up at my door to get the kids as that man (like he used to be!), I would not be able to get him off my mind.
That being said, can someone please email my H & clue him in? Thanks.
formerly known as "shelbel" Me 40, stbxh 40 DSs 9, 7 & 3 M9, T10 Stbxh is a diagnosed bipolar & an addict. The end.
I want him back as an independent, self assured man--not another little boy that I have to contain, control & coddle.
Are you listening, LBHs?? When the wise ones tell you that your WAWs want you to be men, they mean it. We do! Confident, calm, put together, and happy just being himself--if my H showed up at my door to get the kids as that man (like he used to be!), I would not be able to get him off my mind.
That being said, can someone please email my H & clue him in? Thanks.
This is essentially the same ssage that my W has sent to me. I heard it loud and clear and really cleaned up my act. Thanks for the advise. But her reaction is a little less than what I expected. Maybe you could stop by my thread and give me some womanly advise, I would apreciate it. Dazed and Confused...Need Advice!! is the name of the thread, not sure how to link to it.
I agree Shel with TH.This could well be the root of his problems and in the scheme of things they are pretty serious addictions. I would ask my doctor what the potential impacts of these abuses could have on someone(forgive me if you already know all this). I think iMlin mentioned she spoke to her doc who intervenend next time her H went to see him.Is this perhaps an option for you too? I think your goals for J are good ones however I think you have to set realistic expectations around what he can initially achieve and by when.EG he may need help on his addiction before he can get a job. Its sounds as if he is running away from something.Do you know what?The agression could be coming from the drugs? It will take time for you to understand what you want want I still dont know after 10 months.Dont rush into anything. I would personally think you are a LBS.If he didnt want to go he wouldnt have. Keep your chin up, working on yourself and looking after your kids.Its seems to be getting his attention.You have time..take lots of it.(((hugs Shel)))
ME 44 H 45 D 14 D 20 M 22 YEARS TOGETHER 28YEARS Bomb Drop 14th July 09 Seperated-living with OW 10mths(14/07/09) MLC 3years
Silence wasn't golden in this marriage; it was deadly," Dr. Robin L. Smith
Thank you everyone for your insight and ideas. I don't have much time, need to get the kids off of the bus.
Just got off the phone with him. I realized he had a few other things that belonged to S8 that he had taken with him, he was decent last night, so I called to ask him to add one more thing to the list.
He went off on a tirade. I threw him out, I did this, I did that, I did more for my friends who didn't do sh!t for me, blah blah blah. I stayed calm and did a lot of, "I'm sorry you feel that way" and "That is not the way I remember it". He brought up what I had admitted, that I had pulled away from him so much that I'd "neglected" (his words) my own family. I told him there was more to it and that he needed some time to look at himself, he wasn't ready to talk.
Then he just got nasty..."Why don't you just admit it? Why don't you just tell everyone the truth? 'I'm a f#@$ing bitch who threw my husband out!' Huh, why don't tell everyone what a f@#$ing bitch you are???"
Deep breath & interrupted him.
"I'm going to have to stop you, H. You will not talk to me like that. You will not call me names. We will not speak until you stop. Please call me when you feel you can be civil."
"Oh, whatever, you are a f%$#ing bitch! Admit it."
"Okay, then. Goodbye, H."
Click. I left him yelling at me on the other end of the phone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was back in the gym today for the first time in almost a month. I told my trainer the four things I wanted before H could come home. He asked me if I thought H would actually do them.
No. I don't think he will do any of them.
As much as it hurts, I really think this is hopeless.
Last edited by shelbel; 05/11/1003:47 PM.
formerly known as "shelbel" Me 40, stbxh 40 DSs 9, 7 & 3 M9, T10 Stbxh is a diagnosed bipolar & an addict. The end.
Here's an example of what NOT to do...but I did it anyway & I'm glad.
I realized that my sitch is unique and following the conventional rules were not going to work here. So I just this once followed my gut & broke some rules.
Our earlier conversation still had me peeved. So I called him & told him we needed to talk, as I was only going to have this discussion once and I was tired of waiting for him to calm down enough to talk with me--so just listen, let me finish, and then you'll have time to respond. Believe it or not he agreed to this. Here were the few things laid out for him...
~There was still a way home, it was up to him to take it. ~I outlined the things I would need to see happen on his part before I could feel that he was serious about working this out. Dr, IC & meds, job, and quit drinking/drugs (because there is no way I felt he was clean and sober right now). ~I told him that I would wait six months to see if any of things happened, and if they hadn't, then I would be filing for D. ~Of course if he felt that he was NOT willing to do these things in order to save our M, then he was welcome to file well before then. ~I would not begin, nor engage in R talks with him before the six months is up. Period. ~I would also not tolerate being called names, being cursed at or berated at any time by him (or anyone else), and that if he did, I was going to say goodbye and immediately hangup.
He listened and when he finally spoke, he launched into all the reason why he was glad he was gone. ~I was controlling ~I was lazy ~I was concerned more about my friends & being online than I was being with him ~add any number of complaints here--he hit most every cliche there is
I told him that I'd been wrong, that I'd made mistakes and that I was going to have to deal with those. I could apologize all he wanted (and I have), but I was not going to shoulder all the blame and let him throw it up on my face every time we talked.
He accused me of telling *everyone* that he was a *insert any foul name you want here* and telling people that he'd left. I told him that wasn't true, that I'd never said anything bad about him to ANYONE and that the only thing I'd ever said was that he had some stuff to work out. "No, I don't. YOU were my only porblem."
Whatever. I'm not his BFs XW who went out of her way to make life difficult for him and continues to do so. I wasn't his brother's XW who got so crazy he had to get a restraining order. He said, "Not now, but you will be eventually when this is over."
The conversation continued to deteriorate; him yelling, me yelling back, me crying, him telling me that every point I made was based on feelings--not fact. I told him it didn't matter if that's not how he saw it, that's how I felt.
He feels that our M took a nose dive at 7 years, and blamed my being on the internet. Ummm...not exactly.
I reminded him that at 7 years he'd quit two jobs, we'd filed for bankruptcy, lost our house & he'd just told me that he had a drug problem. He managed to tell me that those things didn't matter, I don't know how--there is no denying that those things had happened just at the time I started to withdraw.
By this time we've stopped yelling, although I'm still crying.
I told him that I felt very much alone. He had never come to me as an equal, put his arms around me & told me it would be okay. He never offered up any form of emotional support for me. Instead he started blaming me for everything he was going through. I needed him in that respect, and he had decided not to be there. What way did he expect me to react to that?
He told me that maybe we had gotten married too fast, that we didn't have enough time to find out if we really liked each other. That we didn't even know each other anymore, only that we didn't like each other and couldn't get along. I told him that I refused to believe that it takes 7 years to see the real person--that something was going on that he couldn't even describe, much less acknowledge, and that the easiest way for him to deal was to blame me.
In the end he said that he would probably do three of the things I'd outlined--but he denied being on drugs and/or drinking. He said that he had six months and right now he just wanted me to leave him alone (???). He said he didn't appreciate my having the kids call every night. (again...???). I told him I called for the kids for two reasons; they missed him terribly, and he would never be able to say that I had hindered their relationship in any way, shape or form.
I told him that his relationship with his kids was his responsibility from now on, and I wouldn't be saving his butt. He would either be there for them, or not. It was up to him.
So that's the way it ended. I will file in six months unless he has proven that he wants to work on us. He is welcome to file before that time if he wants, I won't fight him. I don't initiate calls for the kids. I will have no contact with him for six months unless it involves the kids. We are each free to date if that's what we want--no questions asked--but he has no desire for another woman ("why would I after what you put me through?").
Again, whatever.
I will update this thread as warranted, and I plan on sticking around to help and learn from everyone else. But there is nothing more to write here. i bought a beautiful journal to write in while I try to keep the wheels on this crazy train.
I've marked Monday,October 11th on the calender. I will start paperwork a week before if need be (I truly think the need will be), and walk into the courthouse bright and early that morning.
I will have until that day to work on me. And on that day, if I am filing, then I know without a shadow of a doubt that my new life will be happy and better than it's been for the past ten years.
For now...I'm done.
formerly known as "shelbel" Me 40, stbxh 40 DSs 9, 7 & 3 M9, T10 Stbxh is a diagnosed bipolar & an addict. The end.
Go dark, take care of yourself, play with your kids, be prepared to enforce the boundaries, pray, and know that you'll be Ok no matter what. You can handle it .
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.