WAH and LBW separated and dark

[Coach]

Oh! Even if it is not for HIM--have something for his dad, or mom, or a friend--those work well too. I give my gift people gifts for their pets, or them, or someone they know...

First thing I thought too. Get a gift for his Mom. Your H is watching you.

[theGoodGirl]

First thing I thought too. Get a gift for his Mom. Your H is watching you.

that's like telling me to worship the devil.

would she not think that i was trying to 'butter her up' or that it wasn't genuine?

one of the things his parents did say was that they felt they have given us a lot and received so little in return. what they didn't realize was that i was constantly buying dinner. i put thought into making their mother's day and father's day gifts. i made sure those things got there on time. whereas my h was always consumed with work and left that task for me to do. i put more work into their mother's/father's day gifts than into my own mother's/father's day gift!

and y'know, when his mom was here, i did buy her something that i knew she liked - despite her ruining my marriage. and all i got in return was snarky, bitchy attitude from her .. acting as if she had won.

what is really stopping me from giving gifts to his mom - i don't want to give her the satisfaction of shovelling sh*t in my mouth.

the Good Girl.

[Coach]

what is really stopping me from giving gifts to his mom - i don't want to give her the satisfaction of shovelling sh*t in my mouth.

and y'know, when his mom was here, i did buy her something that i knew she liked - despite her ruining my marriage. and all i got in return was snarky, bitchy attitude from her ..

Solution - Boundaries

the moment you stand up for yourself and let people know you won't be treated poorly is so empowering and loving to yourself.

Try it. It works.

[theGoodGirl]

Solution - Boundaries

the moment you stand up for yourself and let people know you won't be treated poorly is so empowering and loving to yourself.

wish i had known this before.
i actually got the opposite advice from someone.
i was told to be nice to her, buy her gifts, and smile when she shovels sh*t in my mouth.

nobody told me to stand up for myself.
and when she came to help my h pack to move, she took cheap shots at me and i stood there and just took it.

i don't think i ever cried so much in my life.
i'm a big girl who could stand up for herself and i had to fight the urge to stand up for myself but i didn't want to come off as trying to pick a fight.

i was told not to stand up for myself because i needed to win her approval of me again.
standing up for myself would be viewed as being rude to his mother and it would validate h's reasons for d-ing me.
he was already defending her and saying that i was disrespecting his mother - even when i wasn't. people say worse things to their mils and i wasn't remotely rude .. yet, she exaggerated things and they blamed me for things that i didn't do.

i never felt so defeated. i'm usually a strong person and i don't like to be pushed around. but i decided that if i had nothing good to say, to say nothing at all.

i saw h last night.
he looked at me and mumbled a 'hey'.
i looked at him and didn't reply. i just got in the elevator and went on my way.
he didn't look happy.
in my mind, i just keep thinking .. you wanted this. you wanted me out of your life. you want to erase this mistake of a marriage, right? why even acknowledge this gold digger of a b*tch that you think i am? you should be thrilled to have gotten rid of me. YOU WANTED IT THIS WAY.

btw, that kitchen gadget isn't cheap. it costs around $120 and i can't justify buying such an expensive gift for someone who called me a gold digger and felt it was a mistake to marry me.

i bought him things even when we were separated but still living in the same house. and sometimes he would buy things too. but it came in waves. whenever he spoke to his parents, they would discuss his legal issues and i think they would constantly drill into his head on how disappointed they were in him for not making me sign a pre-nup. a lot of things that came out of his mouth were things that his parents said to him. when he wasn't under the influence of his parents, he was a really nice guy.

sorry for rambling. it's my time to look back on how i got to this point. look at myself and what mistakes i made. i tend to drop tidbits of things that happened and my post may seem like i'm just babbling.

the Good Girl

[LauraOh]

Your MIL is not the one to focus on here--getting back your H is.

But for the future (and all Rs in the future), it wouldn't be a bad idea to learn their LLs. Maybe it isn't gifts--maybe it is something completely different and you haven't been "speaking" it.

But H's LL IS gifts--and you need to get him, or his mom, or SOMEONE a gift!!

Don't be silly here--Coach is right--he's watching you!!

Did you get your MIL a mother's day gift? If you haven't, I would say it's not too late...oh boy...I don't know--maybe it is--gift people are picky about these things (anyone out there a gift person??) Think of it from H's POV, NOT MIL's.

It doesn't matter WHAT she thinks--LET her complain about it because to your H, (who appreciates those things) SHE will look like the silly, ungreatful one! Not you! You need to give her gifts and HOPE it is not her LL--because she will not appreciate them and H will be impressed by your thoughtfulness, and puzzled (annoyed even?) by her lack of appreciation.

And if her LL IS gifts, you have just put a little doubt into her and H's head.

But DON'T pay that much for it--it should be thoughtful more than expensive.

He probably wanted an expensive gift because he was STARVING.

When your LL is physical touch and you haven't had your needs understood, you are STARVING.

When your LL is Quality Time and you haven't had your needs understood, you are STARVING.

If you had been understanding this earlier, you could have been giving gifts all along--much cheaper that way.lol.

[Forrest Gump]

"why yes and why no? can you expand? i'm new at this."

It would be normal if you set a boundary and implemented the LRT. Which to a point you have done. I can't say that it was fully thought thru and it was your true intention.. but that is where you are.

It is not normal because there is usually enough "drama" in these situations to "force" you to poke at one another.

"how does that make him just like me?"

Cause from what I am reading you both ventured down this path without fully understanding why you were doing it.

"how are we both screwed?"

You are losing your M.. he is losing his money.

Or..to say it another way you both are "losing" something.

"he's the one who asked for the d and didn't read the rules.
i tried to warn him about the emotional, mental, and financial toll it would take on him.
now that he realizes the rules are not in his favour, he's now blaming me."

And you agreed without understanding the emotional and mental toll that it would take on you. Now you realize that the rules are not in your favor.. your blaming him.

"this is the ultimate betrayal to me."

So.. Yes. Understand the "work" behind that thought. For now we go on what you said.

"he resented me for making him stand up to his parents. i wanted him to break away and be independent. but yet, time and time again, he would call them to consult with them on our issues."

Maybe he is Co-Dependent. Maybe not. Really it is not important to me if he is. People are consistent. To a fault. If you put people in a situation where they don't know what to do.. they fall back on what they have done in the past. For the sake of a "argument" is there a chance that he did not know how to communicate with you about "something".. so he went to "someone" who had helped him "win" in the past?

"yes, 1-yr separation is mandatory before d-filing."

So.. you have locked yourself into a D?

"i still can't filter through what he has to say."

This is kinda important. As for DB'ing you will have to "rethink" your situation. You will need to figure out what he is really saying to you. It will have to happen.. and you will have understand where he is coming from.

If you have a separation agreement in place and he is supposed to be paying "support".. why is he not? Are you being proactive in "fixing" that? (Don't run out and "fix" that just yet.)

"It sounds like your H was attracted to you because you are the opposite of his Mom - independent, low maintenance, interesting etc. Have you tried getting him to help you with something? I get the impression that he was taken care of too much."

The LRT allows for a testing time. I am not sure that now is a great time for that. Honestly from what I am reading the environment is still hostile.

You have said that you did not part on "hostile" grounds. But.. I am not believing that. You can't introduce divorce papers and not be somewhat hostile. Your 1-2 interactions with him have seemed somewhat "hostile".

To me.. the big issue here is that you don't fully understand who or what you really are. You don't know how to clearly "communicate" your needs. From everything I have read "here" you two are suffering from some big "growing pains".

So..

Why do you want this marriage to "work"?

Explain to me in great detail why it is important to you.

What in this M made you.. a better you?

Leaving out that your H is Co-Whatever.. what were the issues that lead you "here"? All of your answers must start with "We".

Example's..

We fought like cat's and dog's.
We had bad sex.

Got it?

Feel free to expand on my simple thought's.

"First thing I thought too. Get a gift for his Mom. Your H is watching you."

In case you missed it.. Coach is pointing out the fact that your H is watching. Even if you are 100% sure he is not.. I will tell you.. you are wrong. People hide behind all kinds of "Emotion" when they are faced with a situation like this. Your job becomes.. to figure out what they are really saying.. from behind that "Emotion".

"the moment you stand up for yourself and let people know you won't be treated poorly is so empowering and loving to yourself. "

Be a leader.. pay attention to who follows you.

I know I am late.. and Coach is here now. I managed to lop off a small piece of my finger on my right hand. So.. needless to say.. it slowed me down some.

At the end of the day.. this "stitch" will define you. Trust me on that. You will know who you are.. and what you want. Define that first before you do anything else. You have plenty of time.

Now..

[Forrest Gump]

"Did you get your MIL a mother's day gift? If you haven't, I would say it's not too late...oh boy...I don't know--maybe it is--gift people are picky about these things (anyone out there a gift person??) Think of it from H's POV, NOT MIL's."

Don't do it. At this point.. it becomes an after-thought.

[theGoodGirl]

LO,

i needed time in order to digest this one because figuring that out was huge for me.

Wow! That is one huge revolution!! I *guessed* at you wanting the quality time thing--I was trying to figure out how your H saw you as "clingy"--and those people around here with that LL sometimes get that response.

i did the LL quiz and quality time beat out physical touch by one point. i need both. i think h's LL is receiving gifts and physical touch - he always said that he loves it when i caress him, rub his chest, or stroke his forearm. but the gifts thing is also him.

even though i craved quality time, i felt i was never being given quality time. i remember being told once to be independent and less needy. i don't need anybody to tell me something twice. so ever since then, i have been afraid to ask for quality time - because i didn't want to be labelled as 'needy' or 'clingy'.

i loved grocery shopping with h. i loved going anywhere with h. any time i got to spend with h, was quality time for me. it wasn't that i couldn't be independent .. i wanted to know that i was loved by h via my LL.

when i look back, i misread h's display of affection. h bought me a lot of stuff. very often, i would tell him that i didn't need all that stuff. i kept drilling into him that i didn't need material things to make me happy. he would continue to buy me nice things but it made me feel like he thought the only way to impress me was with expensive gifts - ie. like i was a high maintenance gold digger. and here i am shouting at the top of my lungs that i'm not a gold digger and i didn't marry him for his money!

now that the separation agreement is under way, i'm really being accused of being a gold digger. it just frustrates me so much.

i realize that h tried to show his love using the love language he knows best - giving/receiving gifts. and i totally misread it. he did love me a great deal. i kept looking for it in the form of quality time but he was showing his love by buying me stuff. sigh ...

You know what? I wouldn't even HESITATE to send him a little something--with a small note saying you thought of him and got it. You have nothing really to lose at this point. You are not a big pursuer, and it would be a huge 180. You may get a very negative reaction at first. It doesn't matter--I still would do it.

for some reason, i think it's too late to give him gifts. he's completely shut me out of his life. he is adamant that the marriage cannot be saved. there is no convincing him. no amount of mc-ing would fix it. we never even tried mc-ing but he's made that decision for us.

besides, the kitchen gadget isn't cheap. you don't give pricey kitchen gadget for no reason. it's hard for me to pursue because it would be interpreted as being 'needy', 'clingy', desperate, and weak. when i dragged my heels on the legal process, he told me that we had to move on and that i was in denial.

Listen--I'm not in the worst place right now--my H said he wanted to go to a lawyer on Wednesday of last week, and then on Friday he bought a 50 inch television for our living room. I go by his actions not his words. His actions say he's not going anywhere anytime soon (hey, and if he does, I'm keeping the television!)

you go girl. you take that tv!

I did a COMPLETE 180 and it was HARD. He was SO distrustful at first. (well, because he didn't want me to do ANYTHING for him after he said ILYNILY) I just pursued (not my normal nature) through his negativity (and he was PISSED). To this day, EVERY DAY, I ask what I can do for him. When things got really bad last year he was running me ragged. I do have to put limits on this. But as much as I can, without making myself crazy, I do things for him.

i can't trust my h right now.
it almost feels like he's db-ing on me.
going dark, being mysterious/quiet.
i saw him the other day and he didn't look upbeat or cheery.
he looked kind of down.
and i was so tempted to ask him what was wrong? then just tear into him with "why the long face? shouldn't you be happy you got me out of your life? shouldn't you just be overjoyed that you got rid of this mistake of a marriage?"
but i didn't. showed a lot of restraint.

but on a different note.
i did some really bad db-ing early on.
i hugged him every day and told him i wasn't going to give up on him.
and then one day, he said he felt uncomfortable hugging me because he didn't want to lead me on. i would get teary eyed when i hugged him.
even though he was uncomfortable with the hugs, he still hugged me back.
then one day, i just stopped hugging.
he noticed and said "no hug today?".
i said no. and he said he wasn't unreasonable and came over and wanted to give me a hug. i kind of brushed him off. i was offended by the "uncomfortable" and "didn't want to lead me on" comments. so i stopped hugging.
ever since then, i never touched him again.

when they say never believe anything they say and go by their actions. i probably should have ignored the words and just continued to hug. but i was too hurt by the words and i took them literally. so i stopped the physical touch.

You know, your H's parents may "understand" his gift LL. Or they may be like you and "competing" with your quality time LL.

i think you hit it bang on.
they do understand his LL. they buy him stuff all the time. i saw it as him being materialistic. in chapman's book, it says that it's not necessarily true.

again, with me .. receiving gifts isn't my LL so i wasn't impressed with the constant flow of gifts.

Oh! Even if it is not for HIM--have something for his dad, or mom, or a friend--those work well too. I give my gift people gifts for their pets, or them, or someone they know...

you know, even after h dropped the d-bomb .. i bought his mom something. but she took cheap shots at me and i felt she was disrespectful towards me. i was never that disrespectful towards her but she was very rude to me. would i buy her a gift? probably not. call it once bitten twice shy. i wouldn't want to see her again. not with her attitude.

i should also say that another reasony why my h was upset with me was because he felt i was disrespectful towards his parents. he said the Good Girl he married would never be jealous of his parents who he only sees a few times a year.
few times = 8 weeks a year.

the way i saw it was that they were taking up all of h's time. when they weren't on the phone with him constantly, they'd be visiting for weeks at a time. i felt like i had to take a number and i never got any quality time with h. even during our quality time of shopping for home decor, it was always for his parents. i just couldn't get away from them. and h doesn't understand why i would be jealous of his parents?! helloooo??

anyway, these last few posts have really helped me.

i wanted to use my separation time to really think about what went wrong with our relationship. discovering the LL has helped me start that dialogue with myself.

i came on the board to look for ways on where to start or even how to start that introspection.

i truly appreciate you and coach opening my eyes.

the Good Girl

[LauraOh]

Hey Goodgirl,

DO NOT beat yourself up. You didn't know. You can do things now anyway--Coach, and the rest agree--Your H is watching you.

He isn't happy--this path has NOT brought him peace and joy.

If you see him again (in the elevator? do you live in the same building?) touch his arm gently and ask if he's OK. Or show up with something that may make him smile--a gift of some sort that would cheer him up. Tell him you are concerned--he doesn't look good and you want this GIFT to cheer him up.

Now, his parents may "get" that he is a gifts guy--but their LL may be quality time or something else.

And I have heard a lot around here--if your LL is quality time and that is not your H's LL (heck, it isn't even his 2nd LL) you are going to look "needy". And yes, you had a bad reaction when you actually "asked" for your LL, and it looked like your H rejected you.

But he didn't.

Forgive yourself first.

Then forgive your H.

You can STILL get to this guy I just know it--you now have a deep knowledge of who he is. It's huge. Work with it.

[LauraOh]

You have to prepare yourself--you WILL get a VERY negative reaction at first. You have to persist through that. It took FOREVER before my H would let me do anything for him =-even make him a sandwich! I just kept going back and forth between his LLs--touch and acts. Make sure to touch your H--not hugs just yet, but brush his arm or touch his knee.

Talk about it if you can't "do" it. Tell him you saw such and such that he would like and you wanted to get it but...(look sad now) Let him think if you guys were back together you would be speaking his LL HAPPILY.

But fight the negativity you will be getting. He'll still be intrigued.