Ok, well, lets pretend for a minute best case scenario has happened and the situation with your W and her friend has been solved in a way that is suitable to you. Then what? What else do you feel needs to be addressed in the R you share with your W?
I ask this because if your efforts to mitigate the damage you feel your W's friend is causing and the steps you have taken to rectify this problem have not worked maybe there is something else you can focus on.
seems to be a recurring pattern in your life, good thing those are your words not mine, I just assumed as much after reading your responses in this thread.
Oh, Doctor Phil . . .yawn. To your credit, you did deftly work in a petty dig and keep it topical. I'll give you a C+ for the effort.
C+ ?!
That was easily B+ material bro, I could deliver "A+" material but I save that for those that are truly worthy ;-)
LOL!
As for the Dr.Phil jab, I'll have you know that I have awesome hair, I'm in decent physical shape, have no moustache and I don't have my own talk show yet so I fail to see the comparison.
Hey DLS, I'm just not seeing that. After reviewing many of the threads he "contributes" (a misnomer)in, I can't think of anyone else here that would be a better candidate to be put on an 'ignore' list.
From his very first post here at the DB forums, it's been spouting out advice like he's an expert. He didn't come here with his own troubles and grow through it, an I've seen NO evidence that he has any experience himself dealing with any of what many of us are actually experiencing.
One thing I NEVER found in his 1000 posts was something like "Dang! I have no idea what ya should do, sorry" It is ALWAYS his supposedly having our various situations pegged and he knows just what to do. In other words "classic "know it all", and his track record certainly doesn't support his view of himself. Like I pointed out earlier, even a broken clock is right once in a while. But that isn't really good enough to be toying with some VERY "real world" situations where relationships is on the line.
He might be better served taking wild guesses and parlaying them as artificial wisdom in a "Household hints" forum, in my opinion. Sadly, I've noticed many people here seem to willing tolerate his "whack-em-with-a-bat" style of "help." I suppose it could be because folks are probably somewhat emotionally exhausted and feeling a little inferior to begin with, by virtue of the very reason most of us are here, so we tolerate it, even concur or subordinate ourselves to it.
Not me, thank you. I can deal with a little constructive criticism, but I won't tolerate some Michelle wannabe with no apparent experience dissing me and making knee-jerk character judgments on me that are laughably naive. It's like nobody here is even allowed to be a little skeptical or even ask too many questions about any advice given.
Again, when I was here ten years ago, it wasn't that way at all. This is NOT a good development, in my opinion, and my admittedly incomplete 9but fairly substantial) perusal of past topics and how they played out tends to support my suspicions.
I honestly do wish I cold afford the counciling advertised here, at least that way I'd know I wasn't taking as "The Gospel of Gooch" the theories of a 17 year old kid read "Divorce-busting" for some nerdy reason who might never even have been on a date or something.
I've done my time the first time around in this divorce game. I do NOT want to lose my present wife, but I'm somewhat pragmatic from my prior relationship failure and still in control enough to not become a groveler before strangers, blindly accepting some pretty rash and wildly off-base judgments on my character and nature. This seems to confuse some of the alleged "board experts" here, so therefore I must be Genghis Khan reincarnate or something.
Note I have posted some of what I'm up to in my present situation, yet these so called "experts" ignore that stuff and still want to focus on taking potshots at my Character. So much for "we only want to help" Not true. They only want to lord over folks who are in a weakened state to feed their egos . . .and God forbid anyone actually question them.
Gooch and one or two others aren't really here to "help" they're here to make themselves feel important by subordinating others in their moments of weakness. I simply won't cater to their selfish needs, so I have to be made "the Boogie man. Which would be kinda funny, but I know some people really do want help, need help including myself.
But fortunately, I haven't let my guard down enough to fall for it. I suppose since I was already aware of this board from my previous situation, and came here before I self-destructed into a desperate basket case this time, I could see the ruse fairly clearly.
Frankly, I think Michelle Herself might have been moderating back then, and some of these pretenders would have been nipped in the bud when this Forum was much smaller and easier to keep an eye on.
Just a few of my arrogant, anti-social, abusive, megalomaniacal, narcissistic thoughts.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
That was easily B+ material bro, I could deliver "A+" material but I save that for those that are truly worthy ;-)
LOL!
As for the Dr.Phil jab, I'll have you know that I have awesome hair, I'm in decent physical shape, have no moustache and I don't have my own talk show yet so I fail to see the comparison.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
Ok, well, lets pretend for a minute best case scenario has happened and the situation with your W and her friend has been solved in a way that is suitable to you. Then what? What else do you feel needs to be addressed in the R you share with your W?
I ask this because if your efforts to mitigate the damage you feel your W's friend is causing and the steps you have taken to rectify this problem have not worked maybe there is something else you can focus on.
Well . . . that's a good question. One thing people seem to keep forgetting is that I have read Michele's first book. It's been awhile, but some of it is retained. In hindsight, I think possibly the reason a few minutes after I had told my Wife I didn't want her discussing it with her friends I apologized and pulled back might have been something in the first book, not sure really. Maybe my ego (according to a few here) turned off for a sec and I accidentally did the right thing there, who knows.
Where to go supposing that 'the friend situation' has an outcome I'd desire, I'm not sure, right now my 'plan' is to play it by ear, and when in doubt, try to do nothing . . .at least until I find out what I should probably do. What I'm doing now is just kinda leaving it alone.
My concurrence to her about the possibility she might be right, we really should possibly separate (which I have mentioned and nobody had anything to say about it, too busy ripping on me, I guess) seems to have rattled her a little. She's been more pleasant, even actually initiated sex, which has been rare over the last 8-10 months. The situation is complicated I think by her going through menopause right now, so I'm not sure which is 'actual feelings' or hormonal reactions or whatever. I'm confused as hell, really.
I mentioned getting my own bank account, which also seemed to get her attention, and last night we were talking about something we have going on that'll reach into next year. I casually mentioned Well it might not be "us by then" and that seemed to alarm her a bit. She asked if I was planning on leaving right away. I told her "no, not right this second or anything, but babe, If we're gonna split, it'll probably happen before this thing is finished." I said it casually, and she didn't bring it up again, though I could tell by her face it clearly worried her. I really had to resist the urge to go into how I don't want to go I'll be happy to stay", etc etc. But didn't.
I've read enough here in the last few days to see the "push pull" thing, and I really don't want to get into that roller coaster if I can help it, though if that's what it takes to save our relationship, I'll just have to accept it.
Also, I NEED to find a job, or at least get something rolling on my own. I figure, If I can't find one, create one." Unfortunately, starting a new business in the present economy isn't a high probability endeavor. Heck, the reason I'm out a job is the recession closed the company I worked for.
I'm still a bit disappointed that it may well be "all about the income" but hey, not working does cause very real financial problems, and so I try to think of it more in those terms than just my "being an unemployed lump on the couch"
For the record: RobX, Gooch" I have no interest in anything either of you have to say, positive or negative, so please don't bother blessing me with your unequaled wisdom. I assure you I won't be appreciative enough to "feed your need."
Anyway, Citygirl, I know I'm not likely on your Christmas card list either, but I appreciate you not . . . well . . . . handling it like Gooch and Robx.
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
I know, just showing you that by doing what you've been doing so far isn't working, time for a new approach.
Plus by your own admission you were on this site some 10 years ago and you're on marriage #2, can you at least entertain the notion that you're part of the problem? Do you communicate with your spouse in a similar manner?
I know, just showing you that by doing what you've been doing so far isn't working, time for a new approach.
Actually, I can't say absolutely it IS working, but that is a more accurate assessment that what you just claimed. In a nutshell, what I'm doing right now seems to be having a 'net-positive" effect. Are you suggesting that I stop that?
Originally Posted By: robx
Plus by your own admission you were on this site some 10 years ago and you're on marriage #2, can you at least entertain the notion that you're part of the problem?
Oh yea, heheh. But not for the reasons you naively think Rob. You are an assH#le, my wife isn't. I only treat assh#les like this.
Originally Posted By: robx
Do you communicate with your spouse in a similar manner?
See answer above
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
Well . . . that's a good question. One thing people seem to keep forgetting is that I have read Michele's first book. It's been awhile, but some of it is retained. In hindsight, I think possibly the reason a few minutes after I had told my Wife I didn't want her discussing it with her friends I apologized and pulled back might have been something in the first book, not sure really. Maybe my ego (according to a few here) turned off for a sec and I accidentally did the right thing there, who knows.
Would you agree or disagree that often times an "ego" is really fueled by fear of some sort? Would you agree or disagree that often times the "push and pull" can only happen if two parties are participating? I used to react on pure emotion. I can't say I have solved that flaw of mine 100% but it is light years better than it was. I think much of the "push and pull" is directly related to reacting on emotion.
Where to go supposing that 'the friend situation' has an outcome I'd desire, I'm not sure, right now my 'plan' is to play it by ear, and when in doubt, try to do nothing . . .at least until I find out what I should probably do. What I'm doing now is just kinda leaving it alone.
Do you mean you are leaving the friend situation alone? Can you clarify please?
My concurrence to her about the possibility she might be right, we really should possibly separate (which I have mentioned and nobody had anything to say about it, too busy ripping on me, I guess) seems to have rattled her a little. She's been more pleasant, even actually initiated sex, which has been rare over the last 8-10 months. The situation is complicated I think by her going through menopause right now, so I'm not sure which is 'actual feelings' or hormonal reactions or whatever. I'm confused as hell, really.
Separation is a very confusing time. I don't think anybody will disagree with that assessment. Think about what you wrote above. By "doing nothing" you actually drew your W back to you. She has shown emotion (being rattled) and has initiated sex. I would venture to guess that is "something different" then what has been happening. You are providing some decent information to talk about... menopause can be a very difficult time for a woman.
I mentioned getting my own bank account, which also seemed to get her attention, and last night we were talking about something we have going on that'll reach into next year. I casually mentioned Well it might not be "us by then" and that seemed to alarm her a bit. She asked if I was planning on leaving right away. I told her "no, not right this second or anything, but babe, If we're gonna split, it'll probably happen before this thing is finished." I said it casually, and she didn't bring it up again, though I could tell by her face it clearly worried her. I really had to resist the urge to go into how I don't want to go I'll be happy to stay", etc etc. But didn't.
I think you might find that if the WAS is on the fence agreeing with their stance is actually more powerful than disagreeing.
I've read enough here in the last few days to see the "push pull" thing, and I really don't want to get into that roller coaster if I can help it, though if that's what it takes to save our relationship, I'll just have to accept it.
Avoiding huge highs and lows is a very good goal. Now the key will be finding out how you can do that. What will work for you? I can't say "do this, do that" but it is certainly something you can evaluate on a daily basis.
Also, I NEED to find a job, or at least get something rolling on my own. I figure, If I can't find one, create one." Unfortunately, starting a new business in the present economy isn't a high probability endeavor. Heck, the reason I'm out a job is the recession closed the company I worked for.
I'm still a bit disappointed that it may well be "all about the income" but hey, not working does cause very real financial problems, and so I try to think of it more in those terms than just my "being an unemployed lump on the couch"
I think your lack of employment might be a bigger issue than you realize. Yes, the economy is horrifying and is taking a toll on most "average" families. If your W is in menopause I am going to guess she is closer to retirement age than not. Put yourself in her shoes for a minute... her body is changing and there is not a thing she can do about it, in her eyes she is not happy in her marriage AND she might be thinking about her future security. It is bad enough to be unhappy in a marriage but to worry that your partner/spouse will be unable to contribute or provide is frightening. That doesn't make you a "lump on the couch" but it is a valid concern IMO.
Anyway, Citygirl, I know I'm not likely on your Christmas card list either, but I appreciate you not . . . well . . . . handling it like Gooch and Robx.
I am not really sure what is going on with all the in fighting and name calling. IMO it simply glosses over important things both parties are trying to share and express. I have a pretty thick skin and it's fine if you don't agree with me. I can't say I agree with you. What we can do is combine experience and ideas that may be helpful to your situation. You don't like them, okay! At least I put them out there.
1) "Would you agree or disagree that often times an "ego" is really fueled by fear of some sort?"
Yes I'd agree with that, in the broad sense.
2)"Would you agree or disagree that often times the "push and pull" can only happen if two parties are participating?"
Yes, I agree with that too. But I'm also aware that virtually all human interaction involves some sort of emotion. It what emotions and how strongly manifested that is the rub.
3) Do you mean you are leaving the friend situation alone? Can you clarify please?
Yes, I am leaving it alone for now. In other words, I'm not handling it any differently than if she were talking to the Bank about our account or going to the grocery store. I gave her the article, not much else I can do at this point. And while I can't say I got a "positive result" I know she read it, seemingly she read it twice. I haven't even asked if if she read it. I certainly haven't seen a negative result either as of yet.
4)"By "doing nothing" you actually drew your W back to you."
Not entirely true. Not at all true actually. "Nothing begats nothing", and nothing I've read here or seen for myself demonstrates otherwise. The reality is that most of the time one HAS to react. The quandry is in just how to react.
I've done a few things. For one, concurred that possibly separation might be best . .which I don't mean at all. These improvements have also taken place after I gave her the article a few days ago, when I was told by many here that doing that would be some sort of huge mistake that was gonna push her away and tick her off and make me appear controlling.
None of that seems to be true. Chalk one up for "doing something" in my mind, at least until something manifests itself to make me rethink this apparent non-step backward as it was supposed to be, though still to soon to declare it successful with any certainty.
5)You are providing some decent information to talk about... menopause can be a very difficult time for a woman.
Well . . .I understand that I don't really understand the menopause thing. As for my providing some decent information, it's mainly because I'm kinda given up on people actualy caring about my present concern and are more interested in lambasting me. You didn't, so I basically throw in the towel and play along. I'd probably have already started a different thread or joined in another with some of this, but some folks just seemed determined to give advice I wasn't asking for nor desired just yet, made some obviously bad judgments and piss-poor assessments, so I've given up on what I want. Gotta go, she just got home
Life may be short, but . . . well . . . it actually IS short, now that I think about it . . . . particularly when compared to planetary formation and stuff.
